GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #1

[revampz]

http://www.abc12.com/story/18918243/court-records-show-carnel-chamberlains-life-was-troubled

After reading the above I can not beleive this girl, and she is a girl, was given this child back. I do not think she is a victim at all. And you can blast me all you like, but I have friends who have been trying to adopt for years.....quite a few of them, that when this girl said she did not love or want this child,they would have chopped of a limb to be given the chance to have and love this child and the many many many just like him.

I think the system sucks big time. When children have been neglected and not wanted, which we are finding is happening so often these days, why oh why are they put through an overburdened foster system when they should be put up for adoption and given such a better life.

Here in australia our system is at breaking point but it is very very rare that children are adopted. One of my friends I mentioned above became a foster mother because there just isnt any children to adopt. She was given a baby boy she had for four years. Mum was a heroin addict and ended up in jail for his attempted murder. These people applied to adopt him when he was 5...mum got out of jail, said she was ok and they gave the child back to her..........the mother he never knew and took him of Shelley "his mother".....Needless to say shelley left the foster system in disguist and the last she heard of the little boy he was living in squalor again........but hey that is ok, he is with his "real" mum. We know in the future he will be taken off her again and given to yet another foster mum....and then probably another...............like I said It sucks.......where is the common sense!

 

[Knox]

Because it is the crime of murder, Indian upon Indian, in Indian Country, it falls under the Major Crimes Act which is Federal.

Thank you Jacie. The quote in my post stated the FBI would be speaking. That was my question, as I did not recall seeing them in a pressor? I wondered if I missed a news video.

 

[Knox]

Don't forget about the workers saying they heard alot of yelling the Wednesday before. Do we know if JC worked that Wednesday? Could the yelling be from ab and jc arguing over the abuse of cc? Could Thursday have been payback for cc telling on ab?

Million dollar question kseal. I too wonder if something like you describe happened. I doubt we will hear anything further from the construction workers, as their testimony will be important in the case against Bennett. I wonder if they will seal the results of the autopsy?

 

[Knox]

Jaimee's brother is saying that Bennett shaved Carnel's head a week before he died. Also saying that his Mom had been taking care of Carnel. He had only been in JC & AB's care for three weeks. To be clear, I don't know if that means Grandma was babysitting him or if Carnel had been living with her.

In one of his comments made on a news story. Jaimee's brother said he using a friends facebook page, as he does not have one. He posts as GL, but his name is TC.

If he is reading here I want to offer my sincere condolences to him and his family. TC is heartbroken over the loss of his nephew and has been posting about him from day one.

 

[~n/t~]

Post Partum Depression can happen to any young mother. Perhaps she was treated for it and was able to make the turn around. IMHO

How do we know she suffered PPD? There is no evidence of that anywhere. The report says she suffered serious substance abuse. I've also seen posts saying she must have been a victim of abuse and again, there is nothing so far, to indicate any of this is true.

When do we stop making excuses for women who sacrifice their children for a shack up?

The facts are:

1) She didn't want Carnel and he was put in foster care. She refused to provide care for him.

2) For whatever reason, she ended up getting custody of him. We don't know how long this little boy was in foster care.

3) Fast forward a few years she shacks up with a felon who has no job and she witnessed beating and torturing of her child but did nothing.

4) The same child she didn't want ends up dead. Allegedly murdered by the same monster who inflicted pain for over a month period including bruises on the ribs, buttocks and swollen face. The injuries witnessed by HER.

Sorry, I just don't get why she's given a free pass here. Yes, she lost her child but my God, when are these women held accountable for not protecting their children? How many more children have to suffer the same fate as Carnel before it stops?

 

[~n/t~]

All we have to do is take a look at this thread right here on this message board and bear witness to the many many cases like Carnel's. Crimes-Spotlight on Children - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[smokey]

Just out of curiosity I haven't seen any reports on the biological father of Carnel. Has anyone heard or know of anything about him?

Pianokiller i read in one of the msm articles that he is in jail

 

[pomegranate]

Pianokiller i read in one of the msm articles that he is in jail

Yes, that's correct.

Carnel Chamberlain's biological father in prison for assault

 

[Gardenlady]

The statements JC made at the time about not wanting Carnel, she wasn't attached to him, etc, are classic PPD symptoms. That doesn't automatically mean she had it, of course, but that feeling, and those statements are types of things that happen.

I know, because I said the same about one of my children (my second). I was young and had my first two very close together, and baby was very sick with bad reflux, dehydration, borderline failure to thrive (weight issues due to constant vomiting, etc). I was in despair, and in tears many times told my husband that the baby didn't love me, maybe we could give the baby to his sister to raise (she was a nanny), I couldnt take care of baby, etc.

With help (both for the PPD which in my case was quickly recognized, and the baby's medical issues, which although lasted until well over a year, were also helped with specialists and meds), I got through that - and of course I'm embarassed for feeling that way and saying those things. But they were very real feelings at the time. And later I did absolutely feel differently, and with support and help I bonded with and loved my child. Still do, even though said child is a teen now who makes me despair in other, less crazy-making ways

My point is that even though she said those things early on, it absolutely does not mean that JC did not come to love and care for Carnel. And perhaps her words at the time weren't really meant, but were borne out of either PPD, or a feeling of being young and scared as hell.

I'd hate to have those nights where my words that came from despair, fear, and out-of-whack hormones and depression come back some day and be used as "proof" that I am a bad mother, or don't love my children. So I'm willing to give JC the same benefit of the doubt that I would want extended to me. Maybe this might help others to hopefully do the same?

eace:

 

[Jacie Estes]

The statements JC made at the time about not wanting Carnel, she wasn't attached to him, etc, are classic PPD symptoms. That doesn't automatically mean she had it, of course, but that feeling, and those statements are types of things that happen.

I know, because I said the same about one of my children (my second). I was young and had my first two very close together, and baby was very sick with bad reflux, dehydration, borderline failure to thrive (weight issues due to constant vomiting, etc). I was in despair, and in tears many times told my husband that the baby didn't love me, maybe we could give the baby to his sister to raise (she was a nanny), I couldnt take care of baby, etc.




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With help (both for the PPD which in my case was quickly recognized, and the baby's medical issues, which although lasted until well over a year, were also helped with specialists and meds), I got through that - and of course I'm embarassed for feeling that way and saying those things. But they were very real feelings at the time. And later I did absolutely feel differently, and with support and help I bonded with and loved my child. Still do, even though said child is a teen now who makes me despair in other, less crazy-making ways

My point is that even though she said those things early on, it absolutely does not mean that JC did not come to love and care for Carnel. And perhaps her words at the time weren't really meant, but were borne out of either PPD, or a feeling of being young and scared as hell.

I'd hate to have those nights where my words that came from despair, fear, and out-of-whack hormones and depression come back some day and be used as "proof" that I am a bad mother, or don't love my children. So I'm willing to give JC the same benefit of the doubt that I would want extended to me. Maybe this might help others to hopefully do the same?

eace:

BBM PPD is a possibility.

With our son, I didn't think I would ever sleep again. I remember wishing I hadn't been nursing because my body just couldn't physically get up in the middle of the night. My husband just stared when I told him he should nurse. lol We put a bassinet right next to our bed and DH would reach in and lift him out of it.

Jaimee was 16 when she had Carnel; at 16 I would not have raised a child either. Reading on the FB pages, I find it interesting that the amount of casino percap was several thousand every 2 weeks for each family member. How much did money/partying play into this?

 

[Donjeta]

Any struggling parent who wants the benefit of the doubt that they love their children, it would probably help if they protected the objects of said love from abuse. Just a thought.

This is an incredibly sad case because it seems to have been preventable.

 

[scapa]

BBM ]Reading on the FB pages, I find it interesting that the amount of casino percap was several thousand every 2 weeks for each family member. How much did money/partying play into this?

In Canada, as in the US, different bands, tribes and nations have very different life experiences and expectations, but having access to casino (or oil or other) riches, while staying within cycles of low employment, outmoded or poor facilities for water, education, health centres and so on, does not guarantee welfare and safety across the reserve. A lot also seems to depend on the history of that community (presence of elders, lack of power struggles within or between ruling clans or families, relationships to government, etc).

And the longstanding and complicated relationships between extended family and friend networks on rez can get pretty fraught -- in a tightly-knit community it might have been relatively more difficult for JC to address the abuse of herself or Carnel without provoking consequences for family and friends as well as herself. This is a terrible case, but I don't yet see anything in JC that gets close to the narcissistic savagery of a Stephanie Sloop (the name alone makes my hand curl into a shape to wield a torch).

I also suspect that AB will turn out to suffer from FAS or something like it -- a study here a few years back of arson, car theft and so-called "spontaneous violence" attributed an overwhelming percentage of these crimes to youngish kids whose FAS had profoundly reduced their impulse control, situation-specific judgement and ability to stop something they'd begun, however serious the likely consequences. It isn't an excuse or even a substantial mitigation -- they went to jail, as will AB if he's guilty -- but it does aid in the explanation, IMO.

s

 

[Gardenlady]

BBM PPD is a possibility.

With our son, I didn't think I would ever sleep again. I remember wishing I hadn't been nursing because my body just couldn't physically get up in the middle of the night. My husband just stared when I told him he should nurse. lol We put a bassinet right next to our bed and DH would reach in and lift him out of it.

Jaimee was 16 when she had Carnel; at 16 I would not have raised a child either. Reading on the FB pages, I find it interesting that the amount of casino percap was several thousand every 2 weeks for each family member. How much did money/partying play into this?

Jaciedo you know how they go about paying out the casino proceeds? Is there an age requirement? And what about a situation where a minor has a child, does that minor get the proceeds directly, or would it still go to a parent?

Just wondering because as you mentioned partying, it occurs to me that 16, 17 is a very young age to handle that kind of money (not to mention a child, obv!), so I wonder how they handle it.

Yes, at 16 I wouldn't have been able to take care of a baby either. And many 16 year old girls might be easily pressured by family and friends to keep the baby, even if they might prefer to opt for adoption or abortion.

And so been there with the nursing moment. "okay, YOU feed the baby. Let me know how that goes!". :what:

 

[Jacie Estes]

In Canada, as in the US, different bands, tribes and nations have very different life experiences and expectations, but having access to casino (or oil or other) riches, while staying within cycles of low employment, outmoded or poor facilities for water, education, health centres and so on, does not guarantee welfare and safety across the reserve. A lot also seems to depend on the history of that community (presence of elders, lack of power struggles within or between ruling clans or families, relationships to government, etc).

And the longstanding and complicated relationships between extended family and friend networks on rez can get pretty fraught -- in a tightly-knit community it might have been relatively more difficult for JC to address the abuse of herself or Carnel without provoking consequences for family and friends as well as herself. This is a terrible case, but I don't yet see anything in JC that gets close to the narcissistic savagery of a Stephanie Sloop (the name alone makes my hand curl into a shape to wield a torch).

I also suspect that AB will turn out to suffer from FAS or something like it -- a study here a few years back of arson, car theft and so-called "spontaneous violence" attributed an overwhelming percentage of these crimes to youngish kids whose FAS had profoundly reduced their impulse control, situation-specific judgement and ability to stop something they'd begun, however serious the likely consequences. It isn't an excuse or even a substantial mitigation -- they went to jail, as will AB if he's guilty -- but it does aid in the explanation, IMO.

s

:goodpost:

BBM-This has been my point exactly. Jaimee has problems but she is also weak; she is not homicidal.

Even in family/extended family there is some times no comfort. I've seen one grandmother targeted for getting her grandchildren away from abuse. One morning, in the winter, every window in her trailer and her van were broken out. She went into the shelter system, off the rez and several states away just to get rid of the bullying.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Jacie do you know how they go about paying out the casino proceeds? Is there an age requirement? And what about a situation where a minor has a child, does that minor get the proceeds directly, or would it still go to a parent?

Just wondering because as you mentioned partying, it occurs to me that 16, 17 is a very young age to handle that kind of money (not to mention a child, obv!), so I wonder how they handle it.

Yes, at 16 I wouldn't have been able to take care of a baby either. And many 16 year old girls might be easily pressured by family and friends to keep the baby, even if they might prefer to opt for adoption or abortion.

And so been there with the nursing moment. "okay, YOU feed the baby. Let me know how that goes!". :what:

BBM- I can't imagine why they looked at us so strangely. The pediatrician reminded me that I actually asked if I had to sterilize the water before I made jello water when the baby was throwing up. How did I know that boiling the water to make jello and sterilizing it were the same. I was tired.

Here is the link to the percap dept on the rez:
http://www.sagchip.org/percap/contact.htm

The Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe shares some of its casino profits with its membership. The amount of the so-called "per capita" payment is a closely held secret.

A decade ago, tribal officials were widely quoted as saying the payments were about $25,000 a year to each member. Those payments are believed to have increased with the growing revenue from the tribe's Soaring Eagle Casino & Resort in Mount Pleasant.

But Cloutier declined to comment on some recent news reports that have pegged recent payments at $70,000 a year.

"There's a lot of speculation out there, but the position of the tribe is not to comment," Cloutier said.


http://blog.mlive.com/bctimes/2008/03/for_saganing_people_casino_bri.html

Most tribes don't have percap, those with casinos or oil/mineral rights do. Jaimee's brother quoted $2K every 2 weeks on FB. There is an adult pay and a child pay. I do recall that a Shakopee student, when graduating from High School got about $96K percap, it is the tribe's way to encourage students staying in school and graduating. I remember one student went to Vegas with the money.

 

[leighmarker]

O/T I was a very young mother, 16. I guess I was lucky because I didn't have PPD and I would (and still would) of killed anyone who touched my child. Since we more or less grew up together we are very close. By having him so early in life I had to grow up quickly. I have worked since he was born (he will be 28 in July), there are women/girls who can handle it-speaking first hand.
I can't imagine how my life would of been without him, I was on a one way road down. I thank God everyday for giving him to me (only child) without him I wouldnt be who I am today.
However, I was not on an indian reservation and I don't know if that would of made a difference or not. no matter where I lived I DO KNOW FOR A FACT my child would of been safe.

 

[Amster]

If this was a father who watched his child being abused, different story I bet. Men don't have the built in excuse of PPD (yes, I know some women suffer from it....but, not all) I doubt he would be afforded excuse after excuse to the point of making stuff up. It's not like this woman didn't have help! She chose to shack up and support an ex felon and allow him to abuse her child. She had all kinds of help available to her. Seems her family was less than pleased when she moved her lover into her home. I figure she didn't like the criticism so she shut them out. Her shackup came first. Above her family and definitely above her child. I hope she is charged with endangerment or something.....

 

[Jacie Estes]

If this was a father who watched his child being abused, different story I bet. Men don't have the built in excuse of PPD (yes, I know some women suffer from it....but, not all) I doubt he would be afforded excuse after excuse to the point of making stuff up. It's not like this woman didn't have help! She chose to shack up and support an ex felon and allow him to abuse her child. She had all kinds of help available to her. Seems her family was less than pleased when she moved her lover into her home. I figure she didn't like the criticism so she shut them out. Her shackup came first. Above her family and definitely above her child. I hope she is charged with endangerment or something.....

BBM When men start giving birth they can say they have PPD.

 

[Amster]

All we have to do is take a look at this thread right here on this message board and bear witness to the many many cases like Carnel's. Crimes-Spotlight on Children - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Until the excuse making stops for these women, noting is going to change. Just more little bodies piling up....

 

[Jacie Estes]

Until the excuse making stops for these women, noting is going to change. Just more little bodies piling up....

WHEN men start taking responsibility for the children they create, women won't be faced with issues like this. IMHO