GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #2

[Jacie Estes]

Do you think there would have been enough evidence (at the time) to remove Carnel from the home of JC and AB?
Keeping in mind that the abuse was within a time period of one to two weeks.


IMO

With a fresh bruise, a split lip and Carnel's words AWAY from his abuser? YES

 

[Jacie Estes]

Drugs do cause apathy in long time users,but no amount of drugs could cause a mother to ignore the obvious abuse in front of her eyes.
Certain situations aren't even acceptable to those seeing through a haze of drugs
Some went from the mother being a victim and no one is allowed to say otherwise,but we should instead blame every other family member even though the mother rarely had contact with her son.
Who was in the best position to see and hear what was going on in the home?

I'll answer....the mother of the child.

IMO

I still believe that Jaimee is one of the victims here, nothing will change my mind on that.

Do I see people come into a shelter that I may not like their actions? YES That doesn't mean they don't need help. I hate seeing this 'pile on Jaimee' BS when there are other players in this scenario.

Under the law, Jaimee could possibly be charged, in tribal court, with not reporting abuse. I don't believe we will find that Jaimee perpetrated violence. The important factor is that AB has been charged with abuse and will, if the evidence is conclusive, be charged with murder and other charges on a FEDERAL level. There is a big difference there. Put the anger where it belongs, on AB, he is, at this time, the alleged murderer.

I prefer to see women supporting women, not tearing them down. IMHO

 

[FrayedKnot]

Ya know, there is a lot of blaming Jaimee's family for not intervening, and yet Jaimee was Carnel's mother and she was responsible for protecting him.

Why are we pointing fingers at extended family and not at the mother who watched her baby being abused and did nothing? Why is Jaimee a victim but the rest of the family is fair game?

Carnel was not killed by a family member, but by MOMMY'S BOYFRIEND.

Again. And again. . I'm just sick of this.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Ya know, there is a lot of blaming Jaimee's family for not intervening, and yet Jaimee was Carnel's mother and she was responsible for protecting him.

Why are we pointing fingers at extended family and not at the mother who watched her baby being abused and did nothing? Why is Jaimee a victim but the rest of the family is fair game?
Carnel was not killed by a family member, but by MOMMY'S BOYFRIEND.

Again. And again. . I'm just sick of this.

The rest of the family is a victim, as well. There is a family in mourning. Still, anyone who knew should have intervened. IMHO

 

[katydid23]

With a fresh bruise, a split lip and Carnel's words AWAY from his abuser? YES

But grandma did not know about the split lip and the bruises. Only mom know about those. Grandma did not have the current evidence of the abuse by AB. Only mom knew about the abuse. It was up to mom to save her child.

I'll bet Grandma was just waiting for mom to get tired of 'babysitting' and drop the boy back home with Grandma. How was Grandma supposed to know about their new 'training' program? As far as Grandma knew, Mom was angry with her over the argument about the missing ATV so she was just waiting it out.

The only drug usage that Grandma was probably aware of was the weed. Would that haver been enough to get custody of the boy from his mother? I highly doubt it. And if Grandma tried something like that and failed, she would have been cut off forever. And mom would have probably moved further away and out of reach.

Grandma was stuck, imo. But if she had known about the punch in the face and the neck grab, she would have done something about it, unlike Mom, who proudly took credit for it, on national television.

 

[katydid23]

The rest of the family is a victim, as well. There is a family in mourning. Still, anyone who knew should have intervened. IMHO

But mom was the ONLY one who knew about the abuse . She would not even let Carnel talk to his grandma at that time. The one person who had the chance to save him was mom, imo.

 

[FrayedKnot]

The rest of the family is a victim, as well. There is a family in mourning. Still, anyone who knew should have intervened. IMHO

But why does that not include Jaimee? Why should her family be blamed but she is a victim and not to bear any responsibility?

IMO, if you can't blame Jaimee, you can't blame the rest of her family.

 

[kimlynn]

With a fresh bruise, a split lip and Carnel's words AWAY from his abuser? YES

Agreed,that would be enough proof after the fact,but the point I keep trying to make is that the family may not have known this was going on as far as the abuse by AB toward Carnel.

IMO


Sorry for taking so long to reply,but keep getting logged off when I reply.

 

[BritsKate]

I have to say I have so much empathy for victims of domestic violence. I know, as a child, how demoralizing neglect can be. I know the helplessness of having nowhere to turn and being forced to parent yourself. I know, as a woman, how devastating domestic violence can be. I know how it feels to have no place to go, no money, no job, no car, have no support system and be terrified your spouse is either going to gain custody of your children or kill you if you leave...

But I know, as a mother, that I will never be able to forgive myself for allowing my children to witness abuse, anger and violence for 7 years because I foolishly believed it wasn't affecting them. What I couldn't do for myself - leaving - I had to do for my children. It was one of the most difficult things I have ever done but I would do it again twenty million times over. My children have paid a price for my choices - and they still are years later.

I cannot excuse Jaimee's inaction. What I have to add is so much reform is needed before we stop seeing cases like this...most reforms take place in criminal legislation when in reality I believe much work needs to be done in family law reform.

Third party custody is notoriously difficult to obtain even when shown to be in the best interest of the child(ren). CPS priorities revolve around family reunification always being in the best interest of the child(ren). Family law statutes err on the side of shared parenting always being in the best interest of the child(ren). The burden to prove a parent unfit is incredibly high. Families are ever changing and with it the laws on the books have to change as well in my opinion.

 

[katydid23]

I still believe that Jaimee is one of the victims here, nothing will change my mind on that.

Do I see people come into a shelter that I may not like their actions? YES That doesn't mean they don't need help. I hate seeing this 'pile on Jaimee' BS when there are other players in this scenario.

Under the law, Jaimee could possibly be charged, in tribal court, with not reporting abuse. I don't believe we will find that Jaimee perpetrated violence. The important factor is that AB has been charged with abuse and will, if the evidence is conclusive, be charged with murder and other charges on a FEDERAL level. There is a big difference there. Put the anger where it belongs, on AB, he is, at this time, the alleged murderer.

I prefer to see women supporting women, not tearing them down. IMHO

BBM

I guess that is what is bothering me. Why should a woman get my support, just because she is a woman and a mother? Obviously there is one level of automatic support, UNLESS that woman knew her child was being abused by her live-in boyfriend.

At that point, she loses my support. Sure, I feel bad for her if she is a victim of DV, but all the more reason for her to drop her child off somewhere safe.
She had a few safe places available for him. There was no reason for him to be babysat by someone who picked him up by the neck or who punched him in the face for not cleaning his room. She will not get any womanly support from me for deciding to let this violent felon have her child alone at night. She was not a victim, in the same way that Carnel was a victim. He had NO CHOICE in the matter.

And most important, he went to Mom and said he was afraid of AB. He asked for mom's help and did not get it. She sided with AB and even said as much on television.

If she had said," I saw him being hit but I was too afraid to leave and I was trying to figure out what to do to escape," then she would have had my support. But instead, she said WE were training him to be a man. So I do not feel a sisterly connection at this point.

Obviously in terms of the big picture, I feel horrible for the pain and grieving she is feeling after losing her child. I know she had no idea that was going to be the outcome. :rose:

 

[ynotdivein]

Gentle reminder to our Carnel peeps:

If you are posting photos of this sweet child, and they include the faces of other children or adults, please crop or blur those other faces out before you post.

The internet is a big space with lots of people out there. It's on us to protect the innocent as best we can, and not posting their pictures is a good way to start.

This post lands at random, and as always, :tyou:

 

[kimlynn]

I still believe that Jaimee is one of the victims here, nothing will change my mind on that.

Do I see people come into a shelter that I may not like their actions? YES That doesn't mean they don't need help. I hate seeing this 'pile on Jaimee' BS when there are other players in this scenario.

Under the law, Jaimee could possibly be charged, in tribal court, with not reporting abuse. I don't believe we will find that Jaimee perpetrated violence. The important factor is that AB has been charged with abuse and will, if the evidence is conclusive, be charged with murder and other charges on a FEDERAL level. There is a big difference there. Put the anger where it belongs, on AB, he is, at this time, the alleged murderer.

I prefer to see women supporting women, not tearing them down. IMHO

I have posted that Jaimee is a victim NOW of AB,as her son was more than likely killed by him.I don't see any evidence that she was a victim of AB before her son was killed.
I hope we won't find that JC was involved as well in the abuse of Carnel.At this point we just don't know.
I also hope she will be made to answer for her silence while her son was being beaten by AB.
I do put the blame for the killing on AB,but also feel that some of the blame falls on the shoulder of JC.
I don't feel as though anyone wants to tear down vs support.I just think some have valid questions about what happened,or was allowed to happen to Carnel.

IMO

 

[Jacie Estes]

But why does that not include Jaimee? Why should her family be blamed but she is a victim and not to bear any responsibility?

IMO, if you can't blame Jaimee, you can't blame the rest of her family.

It is not that she doesn't bear responsibility but she is only one of others. I have seen in other cases where all the blame falls on one person when there is enough to go around.

I am speaking of Jaimee as victim in the sense of DV, there is a difference. Others in the family didn't live in the house, under AB's influence, Jaimee did. Someone said to me earlier, in reference to Jaimee, 'people either know/understand DV, in any or all of it's forms, or they don't'. This is my opinion but it is an educated opinion. I've seen it, I've lived it.

 

[longtallcold]

Mom has disappeared...

http://www.wnem.com/video?clipId=7476581&autostart=true

 

[Jacie Estes]

Mom has disappeared...

http://www.wnem.com/video?clipId=7476581&autostart=true

In the video, Kevin Chamberlain, family spokesperson, says the family supports Jaimee That is all I need to know.

I hope it isn't that the pressure got to her and that we have another casualty here.

 

[Jacie Estes]

But grandma did not know about the split lip and the bruises. Only mom know about those. Grandma did not have the current evidence of the abuse by AB. Only mom knew about the abuse. It was up to mom to save her child.

I'll bet Grandma was just waiting for mom to get tired of 'babysitting' and drop the boy back home with Grandma. How was Grandma supposed to know about their new 'training' program? As far as Grandma knew, Mom was angry with her over the argument about the missing ATV so she was just waiting it out.

The only drug usage that Grandma was probably aware of was the weed. Would that haver been enough to get custody of the boy from his mother? I highly doubt it. And if Grandma tried something like that and failed, she would have been cut off forever. And mom would have probably moved further away and out of reach.

Grandma was stuck, imo. But if she had known about the punch in the face and the neck grab, she would have done something about it, unlike Mom, who proudly took credit for it, on national television.

The only drug usage that Grandma was probably aware of was the weed. Would that haver been enough to get custody of the boy from his mother? I highly doubt it. And if Grandma tried something like that and failed, she would have been cut off forever. And mom would have probably moved further away and out of reach.

Grandma was stuck, imo. But if she had known about the punch in the face and the neck grab, she would have done something about it, unlike Mom, who proudly took credit for it, on national television.

We don't know this to be fact. IMHO

 

[longtallcold]

Just for clarification : why is Aliayah Lunsford's "mom" ok for sleuthing but JC isn't? This is not snark, im genuinely asking here....LL hasnt been charged with her daughters disappearance, has she? JC came out and said I knew about the abuse. LL has said what? Just trying to understand the difference is all TIA

 

[beach]

Just for clarification : why is Aliayah Lunsford's "mom" ok for sleuthing but JC isn't? This is not snark, im genuinely asking here....LL hasnt been charged with her daughters disappearance, has she? JC came out and said I knew about the abuse. LL has said what? Just trying to understand the difference is all TIA

Give me tonight to catch up on the facts of this case. After reviewing, I will get with the owners, Tricia & Sue, and give y'all an update regarding the sleuthing parameters.

I'm not sure who is sleuthable until I catch up on the facts here.

 

[longtallcold]

ty beach - I appreciate the mods hard work. I was totally on the mom is a victim train too, but I had to get off awhile ago.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

This is from the "Carnel's Justice" facebook.

Carnel would look up at the moon and say "Grandpa is there".
Now he is there too, with Grandpa Tommy and Uncle Todd.