GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #2

[Jacie Estes]

too little is known right now about the custody situation to answer. Based on some things I've read, it was only a matter of weeks that Carnel was residing with JC and AB. I do not know if that information is factual, simply that it is out there. IF it indeed turns out to be the case, grandma may not have had time to attempt to intervene or alter the path if she had no legal claim to him to begin with. Weeks is not much time to investigate the hows, file the needed documents and get a hearing regarding custodial changes requested.

Also I have no idea how this sort of family law is handled when it comes to living on native lands and being a member of the native community.

Jacie can probably answer if there are differences in how matters may differ in their handling and processes when it comes to tribal life.

http://www.sagchip.org/socialservices/index.asp Notice: Mandatory Child Abuse Reporting Checklist
Sometimes family/clan politics get in the way. I don't know how it is on this particular rez but I have seen things swept under the rug on others. This tribal government seems pretty together. IF the g-ma wanted to remove Carnel, she would have to pursue it in tribal court. It doesn't look like this was done. [Not sleuthing family here, just stating process]

I have an email in to a friend, who is from this rez but lives in another state now, to see about tribal politics and how it plays into this case.

In my DV case, different state and not mine, my ex's cousin was the Public Defender and the judge was a distant relative. Everybody's related. There's a saying that when guys get old enough to date they have to 'swim across the river' because everybody on his side is a relative.

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

Justice, just wanted to add my 2 cents. Anything you have to say here is very much appreciated. Thank you so much for your in put.:seeya:

Thank you!!!

 

[Cubby]

BBM I don't know that I believe CPS (or at least the current system of it as it exists today) works at all

Sorry, back on topic.

I don't know if I do either.... My point was there was enough confirmed documented information already in the hands of the courts (prior involvement with mom, criminal convictions with AB) that any concerns brought would be more than he said she said.


Maybe not CPS, but family court. Maybe an emergency order of protection?

 

[tlcya]

We are on same page I think Cubby. I am just hesitant to assume anything about who knew what when and what their recourse was when I am so new to following this one and freely admit I do not have all the relevant facts.

I am treading lightly here as this family is already in pain and it is not at all my intent to add to it.

 

[Cubby]

I understand, tlcox. My point isn't to blame the family, or point fingers at the family, but rather to point out just how serious addiction can be.

There are lots of posts floating about regarding Jaimee's family warning her about AB. We know from MSM she was in a relationship with him for approximately 7 mo's.

According to MSM, AB's failed urine tests go back to January of 2012. So it's not like there was this sudden relapse which went undetected and progressed so quickly there was no time to react. The drug usage was documented in the courts 6 months prior to Carnel's murder.

 

[katydid23]

But the only witness to AB's abusive behavior towards the child was his mother. So none of the family members would have known about it in time to save him. The only one who could have protected him from AB from the start was mom. :furious:

 

[Jacie Estes]

There was a case on tribal land where the father was a monster. He tied the children to chairs and forced them to watch him rape the mother. He did the same to the mother while he raped the children. He murdered the mother in front of the children. That case, including the abuse, went federal because it was so extreme. Some of the children are now institutionalized, one catatonic. :banghead: The variant is the extreme nature of the abuse if it goes tribal or federal. Again, under the Major Crimes Act, sexual abuse is always charged federal.

too little is known right now about the custody situation to answer. Based on some things I've read, it was only a matter of weeks that Carnel was residing with JC and AB. I do not know if that information is factual, simply that it is out there. IF it indeed turns out to be the case, grandma may not have had time to attempt to intervene or alter the path if she had no legal claim to him to begin with. Weeks is not much time to investigate the hows, file the needed documents and get a hearing regarding custodial changes requested.

Also I have no idea how this sort of family law is handled when it comes to living on native lands and being a member of the native community.

Jacie can probably answer if there are differences in how matters may differ in their handling and processes when it comes to tribal life.

 

[tlcya]

Bless you, your knowledge and your willingness to share it with all of us. I can't tell you what a resource you continue to be for me Jacie.

 

[Cubby]

But the only witness to AB's abusive behavior towards the child was his mother. So none of the family members would have known about it in time to save him. The only one who could have protected him from AB from the start was mom. :furious:

Right now there is nothing indicating AB isolated them from family and friends/neighbors.

Per MSM the neighbors saw Carnel outside playing on the trampoline the day he disappeared. Per MSM roofers heard screaming or loud arguing.

I'm sorry, but we are going to have to agree to disagree sole responsibility for protecting Carnel lay on his mother. Everyone who witnessed bruises or had concerns about this childs safety had the responsibilty to act on those concerns. Apparently no one did.

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

I think the reason JCs mom didn't try to get custody is based on a lot of factors....The time and money it would take in court...She probably thought they had a good system going where she watched Carnel and JC babysat him on occasion so she was still in her sons life without effecting it negatively...It worked out for both parties, Grandma took care of baby and he was safe and happy while Jaime got to continue her party lifestyle all while still taking on the "mom" role a couple times a week. That is probably why nothing got reported about Jaimee doing drugs and not providing a safe environment for her son, because grandma was providing it so no one was getting hurt. And Gma got to keep a relationship with her daughter. and like Jacie Estes said, everyone is related so they aren't going to tattle on Jaimee, she is everyones cousin! They probably just knew he was with grandma safe. That is of course until AB came into the picture. But Carnel only lived with them a month before he died and started getting abused, and during this time Jaimee wasn't allowing Carnel to see them or talk to them. I will edit this in like 10 mins when I find the quote but TC wrote that Carnel wouldn't talk to grandma or him, he said he thought Jaimee was not letting him.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Under federal law, tribal courts have the authority to prosecute tribal members for crimes committed on reservations, but cannot sentence those convicted to more than three years in prison. As a result, tribes usually seek federal prosecution for serious crimes.

The government did not pursue rape charges on reservations 65 percent of the time last year and rejected 61 percent of cases involving charges of sexual abuse of children, the federal data showed. In contrast, the Justice Department declined 20 percent of drug trafficking cases nationwide, according to the federal figures.

Once federal prosecutors do decline a case, they seldom hand over evidence to tribal courts, according to the Government Accountability Office. An office report last year also found that federal prosecutors fail to tell tribes that they have declined cases until after the tribe’s statute of limitations has expired.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/u...me-and-fewer-prosecutions.html?pagewanted=all



There is a reason that the Tribal Provisions of the VAWA Bill is necessary....sadly, those provisions were gutted from the bill.

“For instance, H.R. 4970 fails to provide for concurrent special domestic violence criminal jurisdiction by tribal authorities over non-Indians, and omits clarification of tribal courts’ full civil jurisdiction regarding certain protection orders over non-Indians,” the policy statement states. “Given that three out of five Native American women experience domestic violence in their lifetime, these omissions in H.R. 4970 are unacceptable.”

Read more:http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwo...ses-house-sans-tribal-court-provisions-113487 http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwo...-tribal-court-provisions-113487#ixzz1zs0KmRNs

 

[cocomod]

I have followed dear Carnel's case from the beginning. Can I just say that I prefer to look at his earlier picture - the one where he still has hair. He is just a gorgeous little man with a light in his eyes! This is Carnel to me. The one with his hair shaved is the one that this monster and unfortunately his momma will remember. They changed and hurt this darling little boy.

Second, I want to say that I appreciate JusticeforCarnel's posts. I appreciate that you are always willing to put that this is "rumor" in your posts; and I just appreciate having someone close to the situation posting. I can tell from your posts that you have been affected deeply by Carnel's abuse and murder.

Third, I cannot wait for this MONSTER to be charged already!! I know that he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But as a citizen that will never be on the jury, I can honestly say that I believe he is guilty and I want to see him charged!!

Jacie, I also appreciate your knowledge, your tender heart, and your posts here at WS!

Thank you WS for being a sounding board for those of us who support the victims in these horrific cases!!

 

[kimlynn]

Right now there is nothing indicating AB isolated them from family and friends/neighbors.

Per MSM the neighbors saw Carnel outside playing on the trampoline the day he disappeared. Per MSM roofers heard screaming or loud arguing.

I'm sorry, but we are going to have to agree to disagree sole responsibility for protecting Carnel lay on his mother. Everyone who witnessed bruises or had concerns about this childs safety had the responsibilty to act on those concerns. Apparently no one did.

The mother had the greatest responsibility.She was in the home and actually witnessed the abuse.
We don't know that anyone else saw the bruises which would be easily covered with a shirt,or in regard to facial bruises explained away or the child hidden until healed.
Were the neighbors close enough to the child to see the bruises?
Anyone could have expressed a concern,but was there enough evidence at the time for them to go to the authorities with any concerns of abuse?
Sadly many children live with the conditions of drugs and abuse and little is done.

IMO

 

[Jacie Estes]

I think the reason JCs mom didn't try to get custody is based on a lot of factors....The time and money it would take in court...She probably thought they had a good system going where she watched Carnel and JC babysat him on occasion so she was still in her sons life without effecting it negatively...It worked out for both parties, Grandma took care of baby and he was safe and happy while Jaime got to continue her party lifestyle all while still taking on the "mom" role a couple times a week. That is probably why nothing got reported about Jaimee doing drugs and not providing a safe environment for her son, because grandma was providing it so no one was getting hurt. And Gma got to keep a relationship with her daughter. and like Jacie Estes said, everyone is related so they aren't going to tattle on Jaimee, she is everyones cousin! They probably just knew he was with grandma safe. That is of course until AB came into the picture. But Carnel only lived with them a month before he died and started getting abused, and during this time Jaimee wasn't allowing Carnel to see them or talk to them. I will edit this in like 10 mins when I find the quote but TC wrote that Carnel wouldn't talk to grandma or him, he said he thought Jaimee was not letting him.

J4C, I really do understand your frustration with this case, we all are angry.

I just know the damage I have seen done from the rezvine. It hurts people and it can get people killed if the right triggers are set off.

My problem is, and I am being totally honest here, family fights, I can fight like cats and dogs with family members, BUT when it comes to a family tragedy, families pull together. I'm seeing positive disagreement from people like KC and I applaud him for that. I'm not understanding the vitriol coming from some segments of the family. I have a very bad temper, I don't show it often but it is there. That said, I would confront personally a family member and would never carry family matters to a FB page. I don't get that. In the end, that poor baby is passed, a family is in mourning and words said in public can't be taken back. IMHO Just had to say that because it has been bothering me. thanks

 

[Jacie Estes]

The Saginaw Indian Chippewa Tribe has compiled a list of resources for anyone in need of support or counseling after family members confirmed Thursday that Carnel Chamberlain, 4, is dead

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/06/saginaw_chippewa_indian_tribe_4.html

women watches with her young child as the flags at the Chippewa Tribal Center on the Isabella Federal Reservation in Isabella County are lowered to half mast in the memory of Carnel Chamberlain at a candlelight vigil on Thursday evening . Though the event was already scheduled, the tone turned somber after news broke the boy was found dead earlier that day, his family said.

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

J4C, I really do understand your frustration with this case, we all are angry.

I just know the damage I have seen done from the rezvine. It hurts people and it can get people killed if the right triggers are set off.

My problem is, and I am being totally honest here, family fights, I can fight like cats and dogs with family members, BUT when it comes to a family tragedy, families pull together. I'm seeing positive disagreement from people like KC and I applaud him for that. I'm not understanding the vitriol coming from some segments of the family. I have a very bad temper, I don't show it often but it is there. That said, I would confront personally a family member and would never carry family matters to a FB page. I don't get that. In the end, that poor baby is passed, a family is in mourning and words said in public can't be taken back. IMHO Just had to say that because it has been bothering me. thanks

I am not saying I agree wih TC entirely. I respect the way Kevin Chamberlain is going about it much more, but KC has a reputation to with hold. TC does not, so he is speaking what he feels is the truth without caring about the consequences of what people may think of him. Who has given us more information about Jaimees life and the case? TC. His way may not be the right way, or the most publicly acceptable way, but he is doing what he thinks is right for his baby nephew, who he was very very close to.

But i do understand how it could bother you.

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

 

[beach]

Mod note:

JusticeforCarnel has been verified as an insider in Carnel's case.


Thank you for sharing your insight! We appreciate it so much.

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

Mod note:

JusticeforCarnel has been verified as an insider in Carnel's case.


Thank you for sharing your insight! We appreciate it so much.

Yay thank you so much beach

 

[tlcya]

Gleaning info about Carnel from various FB pages while trying to avoid becoming embroiled in the anger at JC (as it would be very easy for me to jump on that bandwagon right now, feeling as I do).

I do not guarantee the veracity of these bits of info but thought we need something to help us know who we grieve and lost from this world.

Carnel reportedly loved the character Woody from Toy Story movies.

Carnel reportedly loved to discuss the moon and would say "grandpa is up there"

Carnel reportedly loved the water and water activities

Carnel reportedly loved the animated series "Dragon Ball Z"

for video snippet of he and his cousin enjoying racing outside https://www.facebook.com/pages/Carnels-Hope-For-Tomorrow/459362990740569

and for my newest favorite images of Carnel and how I will forever see him in my head henceforth see attached.