GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #2

[Jacie Estes]

http://www.themorningsun.com/apps/p...erest-in-carnel-disappearancepager=full_story

Wonder what that was? I noticed the huge medicine wheel tattoo on her back from her FB photos (I'm guessing it's her own back) and I have to think she may have been what I call "walking proud and tall" after possibly completing a program within her community. I taught many First Nations teens in my urban community and I know a bit about the inherent problems that make Native teens and young people at risk for so many things. I think she thought she could handle being a mom, that she thought she was ready for it, and she had her man to help her. Big mistake, of course. Bad choice of man, with the feather tat. He didn't honor what that feather meant. JMO of course.

BBM I completely agree with you. His use of the feather, a sacred item, is profane. I have never seen a feather placed like that and I wonder if it is a gang symbol in his area. It is dishonor to those who have earned a feather.

 

[southernnana]

:dunno:

This line is from the article on neighbors providing a timeline for when Carnel was last seen alive, jumping on the trampoline in the backyard on Thursday afternoon -

'Bambi and Stephen Scarlott and their two daughters, Karma, 6, and Kaileygh, 5, live next door. Their daughters would talk with the boy over the fence and saw him in his backyard Thursday afternoon. '

Not sure if that line means the 5 and 6 year-old are saying they saw Carnel on Thursday afternoon, or if one or more of the adults saw him as well on that Thursday.

I also have concerns about the timeline of when Carnel was last seen alive, especially if it was only the 5 and 6 yr olds that reported they saw Carnel on Thursday afternoon ... having a fenced yard, the parents may not have been outside. Just contemplating.

If LE returned to verify the accuracy of the neighbor's report as to Wed or Thur, they probably will not let it be known to the public as it is important evidence. Just wish we knew.

 

[tunker2000]

Jaimee has told a few different stories to LE, I just found a one where she states that AB was not at home when she got home from work. I have read other's where she states AB was there and did not know where Carnell was. Something is not right with all these different stories?
http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/06/search_warrant_executed_in_cas.html

 

[Knox]

BBM I completely agree with you. His use of the feather, a sacred item, is profane. I have never seen a feather placed like that and I wonder if it is a gang symbol in his area. It is dishonor to those who have earned a feather.

Nosed around the www and found the link below. Not sure if this is the meaning behind AB's tattoo.

Where is Justicefor Carnel, haven't seen any recent posts. Maybe she could ask Jaimee's brother what the reason for the tattoo is.

Page 71 ...
http://info.publicintelligence.net/CBSA-TattooHandbook.pdf

 

[longtallcold]

I havent read all the previous posts....I just can't without crying...Just want those nevermind -- i cant finish my statement. I love you Carnel

 

[kimlynn]

[/B]








<all quotes have been snipped and BBM>


I speak from personal experience ... my life as a 10-11 year old, with two younger siblings and an alcoholic mother ... father left us. If drugs were involved, I was too young to know. State welfare people were in and out but never removed any of us because we had an elderly grandmother in the household ... we were all neglected, but I was the only one emotionally and physically abused.

A wonderful family took me in and provided for me so that I could finish high school. Whenever I visited my two sibling, I left emotionally upset for days. I moved on to a better life .... but a better life did not really ever happen for my two siblings. I cannot talk about this without crying.

Yes ... an addict in need of their drug of choice will ignore their children in distress and will do anything to obtain their drug of choice.

:frown:

I'm sorry that happened to you and your family,southernnana.We all speak from our own experiences in life.
Keep in mind that the word that keeps getting thrown around is addict and addiction.
There IS a difference between a person that has an addiction vs one who uses because they enjoy.
It also depends on the drug in question as to whether one will form an addiction.
I still contend that no amount of drugging would allow a normal,caring person (regardless of being high or intoxicated) to sit or stand by while a loved one is being abused.
Maybe she just didn't care.....as much as I hate to say it....that is also a possibility.

IMO

 

[kimlynn]

I absolutely believe it is mitigating; I have said this from the time I began posting on this thread.

Jaimee is painted as being such a horrible mother but, given that she was in foster care herself at 8 years old, clearly she did not have the child raising tools one learns from their own mother figure.

Carnel's great-aunt, Esther Chatfield, 58, lives next door to the home. She said she and her husband became Jaimee Chamberlain's foster parents when Chamberlain was 8 years old.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1639763.html

Many children grow up in foster care and go on to lead productive and caring lives.
Some even vow to never raise their children as they themselves were raised.

IMO

 

[Knox]

Hi kimlynn,

In regards to being logged out when posting. Click the "remember me" box before you hit the log-in button. HTH : )

 

[kimlynn]

Hi kimlynn,

In regards to being logged out when posting. Click the "remember me" box before you hit the log-in button. HTH : )

Thank you so much. That is a great help to me.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Nosed around the www and found the link below. Not sure if this is the meaning behind AB's tattoo.

Where is Justicefor Carnel, haven't seen any recent posts. Maybe she could ask Jaimee's brother what the reason for the tattoo is.

Page 71 ...
http://info.publicintelligence.net/CBSA-TattooHandbook.pdf

Thanks. I've seen the double feather on LE and also veterans who are Indian. His feather looks like it is jail/prison ink.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Many children grow up in foster care and go on to lead productive and caring lives.
Some even vow to never raise their children as they themselves were raised.

IMO

That may be true for some but not for all children. The question that must be answered is WHY was Jaimee put into foster care; what were the conditions in the home that caused this to happen, how were they addressed and what was the impact. We have siblings from this birth mother home who have been in prison and had other problems. I would like to know why it is bad for Jaimee, regarding her actions, yet it was acceptable to place a child with someone who had had their children removed at one time?

 

[EllaMae]

I'm sorry that happened to you and your family,southernnana.We all speak from our own experiences in life.
Keep in mind that the word that keeps getting thrown around is addict and addiction.
There IS a difference between a person that has an addiction vs one who uses because they enjoy.
It also depends on the drug in question as to whether one will form an addiction.
I still contend that no amount of drugging would allow a normal,caring person (regardless of being high or intoxicated) to sit or stand by while a loved one is being abused.
Maybe she just didn't care.....as much as I hate to say it....that is also a possibility.

IMO

I am really not trying to be argumentative....and I say this with all due respect, but your statements are just not correct. I am just trying to give you, and anyone else reading here the correct information.

When a parent uses drugs...even occasional,recreational use....it puts children in their care at risk. It is NEVER harmless when a child is depending on an adult to be in charge. Using drugs impairs a person's judgement, and being a parent does not exclude a drug user from being affected. Even casual use can affect a child when the parent is less than diligent due to being high or in any altered state. Many accidents and deaths have happened under those circumstances. Many children have suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a care giver under the influence of drugs because being high lowers a person's inhibitions.
And there are thousands of documented cases of abused, neglected and murdered children due to drug use by their parents....even the same casual drug use you mentioned.

And as I said before...it is well documented that drug use destroys the parental instinct to put a child first and to protect children from harm. Do some research. There are literally tens of thousands of case out there. Normal, caring people do not keep their responsible personalities when they are high because of the chemical changes going on in the brain. It's a myth that people can use and still maintain good judgement.

I can't think of any drug used in any recreational way that does not have the potential to become addictive. If a drug or substance can get you high....it can become addictive either physically or mentally. That does include marijuana. Most marijuana on the streets now is much more potent, and is often mixed with other substances. For many people it can cause a powerful dependence.

 

[kimlynn]

I am really not trying to be argumentative....and I say this with all due respect, but your statements are just not correct. I am just trying to give you, and anyone else reading here the correct information.

When a parent uses drugs...even occasional,recreational use....it puts children in their care at risk. It is NEVER harmless when a child is depending on an adult to be in charge. Using drugs impairs a person's judgement, and being a parent does not exclude a drug user from being affected. Even casual use can affect a child when the parent is less than diligent due to being high or in any altered state. Many accidents and deaths have happened under those circumstances. Many children have suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a care giver under the influence of drugs because being high lowers a person's inhibitions.
And there are thousands of documented cases of abused, neglected and murdered children due to drug use by their parents....even the same casual drug use you mentioned.

And as I said before...it is well documented that drug use destroys the parental instinct to put a child first and to protect children from harm. Do some research. There are literally tens of thousands of case out there. Normal, caring people do not keep their responsible personalities when they are high because of the chemical changes going on in the brain. It's a myth that people can use and still maintain good judgement.

I can't think of any drug used in any recreational way that does not have the potential to become addictive. If a drug or substance can get you high....it can become addictive either physically or mentally. That does include marijuana. Most marijuana on the streets now is much more potent, and is often mixed with other substances. For many people it can cause a powerful dependence.

I'm not sure why you keep cautioning me on the dangers of drugs while parenting.
I have never posted that I thought drugs were okay to be ingested while caring for children.
Of course drugs are mind altering and could impair judgment.I am aware (although not expressed in my last post) that pot can cause you to feel a need mentally but not a need physically.
To me that translates to non addictive.You can control a mental craving or thought,but not so much when the addiction is a physical need,such as drugs that are highly addictive,crack cocaine for an example.
Now on to the meat of the matter...
I'm sure there are thousands of cases where drugs were the root cause of child neglect and abuse.Just as I'm sure that there are many folks who manage to use and not makes headlines.
I still contend that while drugs are mind altering to a certain degree....NOTHING will make you change your basic character or personality to the point that abuse will be acceptable to you.
You could be drunk or stoned out of your mind and still be aware that picking a child up and dropping said child is wrong.
Drugs,as you posted 'impair' not take away basic human goodness.

IMO

 

[Mimiof8]

I know no one asked me but y'all need just to agree to disagree. We all have to take a break sometimes because we get so emotionally involved.

We are all here for Carnel. :chillout:

 

[kimlynn]

That may be true for some but not for all children. The question that must be answered is WHY was Jaimee put into foster care; what were the conditions in the home that caused this to happen, how were they addressed and what was the impact. We have siblings from this birth mother home who have been in prison and had other problems. I would like to know why it is bad for Jaimee, regarding her actions, yet it was acceptable to place a child with someone who had had their children removed at one time?

I agree that not all children function well into adulthood after being removed from their homes.
I can't answer if being removed from her home and mother had a lasting impact on Jaimee.
In an ideal world it would be hoped that foster care would be better for the child than the home they were removed from.
As to why she was removed and why Carnel was allowed to live in the same household with grandma....I don't know that it matters.
Carnel seemed to be fine with Grandma as far as we know.
My only real thought is JC might have given Carnel to grandma to raise based on her experience of being moved to another family member as a child.

IMO

 

[katydid23]

The neighbors saw Carnel playing outside on Thursday. So we have an independent time last seen by someone other than mom and AB indicating Carnel was in fact alive Thursday afternoon.

Carnel Chamberlain's neighbors saw him jumping on a trampoline in his backyard Thursday afternoon.

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/06/neighbors_searched_until_4_am.html

"Bambi and Stephen Scarlott and their two daughters, Karma, 6, and Kaileygh, 5, live next door. Their daughters would talk with the boy over the fence and saw him in his backyard Thursday afternoon."


I am not sure how definitive that is. First of all there is no time given. Jaimie went to work at 3:45 pm, so maybe he was in the backyard BEFORE she left for work.

And it is the 5 and 6 yr old girls that are saying they saw him that afternoon. So I am not certain how accurate that testimony is. With regards to time, and even possibly the correct day. JMO

 

[katydid23]

That may be true for some but not for all children. The question that must be answered is WHY was Jaimee put into foster care; what were the conditions in the home that caused this to happen, how were they addressed and what was the impact. We have siblings from this birth mother home who have been in prison and had other problems. I would like to know why it is bad for Jaimee, regarding her actions, yet it was acceptable to place a child with someone who had had their children removed at one time?

I am wondering if maybe there was someone else in the home, when Jaimie was a baby, that CPS wanted to protect her from. Not necessarily Grandma. Maybe Jaimies father drank and was abusive and that is why she was placed in another's care.

 

[kimlynn]

I know no one asked me but y'all need just to agree to disagree. We all have to take a break sometimes because we get so emotionally involved.

We are all here for Carnel. :chillout:

Sounds like a plan to me. Hope we get some news soon.

Night everyone.

 

[Mimiof8]

"Bambi and Stephen Scarlott and their two daughters, Karma, 6, and Kaileygh, 5, live next door. Their daughters would talk with the boy over the fence and saw him in his backyard Thursday afternoon."


I am not sure how definitive that is. First of all there is no time given. Jaimie went to work at 3:45 pm, so maybe he was in the backyard BEFORE she left for work.

And it is the 5 and 6 yr old girls that are saying they saw him that afternoon. So I am not certain how accurate that testimony is. With regards to time, and even possibly the correct day. JMO

I hear what you're saying...my grandson is 6. He has no understanding of time or days yet. He knows the days of the week, but not what day it is today. In regards to time, he can tell you if something happened before lunch or after school or while it was dark but not the actual time.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[katydid23]

I hear what you're saying...my grandson is 6. He has no understanding of time or days yet. He knows the days of the week, but not what day it is today.

I hope that makes sense.

It does make sense. And also, 5 and 6 yr olds want to please adults. If a tribal police man says kindly," hey kids,did you see Carnel playing next door today?"

The kids are likely going to say YES, WE DID. I worked in a school for decades, and i don't think 6 yr olds lie, they just like to give us the answers they think we want, if that makes sense.