GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #2

[Cubby]

Jaimee has told a few different stories to LE, I just found a one where she states that AB was not at home when she got home from work. I have read other's where she states AB was there and did not know where Carnell was. Something is not right with all these different stories?
http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/06/search_warrant_executed_in_cas.html

I remember these. My thoughts were we were getting those bits and pieces not because mom was lying, but because LE or JC were getting conflicting stories from AB.

What isn't right is what AB did and AB's response or lack of response to it.

 

[Mimiof8]

It does make sense. And also, 5 and 6 yr olds want to please adults. If a tribal police man says kindly," hey kids,did you see Carnel playing next door today?"

The kids are likely going to say YES, WE DID. I worked in a school for decades, and i don't think 6 yr olds lie, they just like to give us the answers they think we want, if that makes sense.

I agree. I work in an elementary school in 3rd grade, have been there 8years. At this age they still want to give the "correct" answer.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Exactly, about the kids being the last to see Carnel on the trampoline... which makes me think they saw him another time.

And if that is true, Jaimee is complicit.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Case Archive for Carnel Chamberlain:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Carnel Chamberlain -MI-/

 

[katydid23]

I agree. I work in an elementary school in 3rd grade, have been there 8years. At this age they still want to give the "correct" answer.

I worked as a classified employee on the playground and in the office. On the K-3 playground it was a hoot to try and figure out what happened in any playground 'incidents.' I do not think the kids lie, but they do not always know the difference between what really happened, and what they think they are 'supposed' to say --if that makes sense.

So I just am not sure about Carnel being up and around and well, if the only people who are saying so are the 5 and 6 yr old girls next door. They cannot remember time that well, and may not understand the vital importance of getting it exactly right.

 

[Mimiof8]

Exactly, about the kids being the last to see Carnel on the trampoline... which makes me think they saw him another time.

And if that is true, Jaimee is complicit.

I wish there was a way to ask the kids parents if they saw Carnel on Thursday.

 

[Mimiof8]

I worked as a classified employee on the playground and in the office. On the K-3 playground it was a hoot to try and figure out what happened in any playground 'incidents.' I do not think the kids lie, but they do not always know the difference between what really happened, and what they think they are 'supposed' to say --if that makes sense.

So I just am not sure about Carnel being up and around and well, if the only people who are saying so are the 5 and 6 yr old girls next door. They cannot remember time that well, and may not understand the vital importance of getting it exactly right.

I'm a 3rd grade teachers aid for 4 classes, 75-80 kids. I have lunch and recess duty every day. I know exactly what you mean about the playground, lol.

 

[Cubby]

I do not believe LE would state neighbors saw Carnel on Thursday afternoon, if they were not sure or that was not confirmed.

They talked to him through the fence and saw him thursday, imo, means when they talked they talked through the fence - Often as would be any time neighbors with a fence talked to each other.

There is no information from MSM or LE indicating the timeline of someone other than mom and AB seeing Carnel alive Thursday afternoon is inaccurate. Thursday is Thursday. It doesn't matter if it was before she left for work. What matters is it was Thursday.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I wish there was a way to ask the kids parents if they saw Carnel on Thursday.

Tribal police, like any other police, could not and would not interview ANY child without a parent being present.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I'm not sure why you keep cautioning me on the dangers of drugs while parenting.
I have never posted that I thought drugs were okay to be ingested while caring for children.
Of course drugs are mind altering and could impair judgment.I am aware (although not expressed in my last post) that pot can cause you to feel a need mentally but not a need physically.
To me that translates to non addictive.You can control a mental craving or thought,but not so much when the addiction is a physical need,such as drugs that are highly addictive,crack cocaine for an example.
Now on to the meat of the matter...
I'm sure there are thousands of cases where drugs were the root cause of child neglect and abuse.Just as I'm sure that there are many folks who manage to use and not makes headlines.
I still contend that while drugs are mind altering to a certain degree....NOTHING will make you change your basic character or personality to the point that abuse will be acceptable to you.
You could be drunk or stoned out of your mind and still be aware that picking a child up and dropping said child is wrong.
Drugs,as you posted 'impair' not take away basic human goodness.

IMO

BBM

If that is the case, why are people high on bath salts turning into cannibals and eating people's faces off and other bad things?

 

[southernnana]

:dunno:


Found an interesting statement by a law professor in this link. Sounds like what a lot of us are looking for ... where and when did this crime happen.


http://www.themorningsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120708/NEWS01/120709722

July 8, 2012

An online petition calling for the arrest of Jaimee Chamberlain is not likely to have an effect on law enforcement or result in her incarceration.

Police and prosecutors deal strictly with facts and evidence, and arrests only come with sufficient evidence, according to Kathy Swedlow, a professor of law at Cooley Law School in Lansing.

More important to the case than a petition is where and when a crime was committed, Swedlow said.

--------------------------------------------

This line is from the article on neighbors providing a timeline for when Carnel was last seen alive, jumping on the trampoline in the backyard on Thursday afternoon -

'Bambi and Stephen Scarlott and their two daughters, Karma, 6, and Kaileygh, 5, live next door. Their daughters would talk with the boy over the fence and saw him in his backyard Thursday afternoon. '

Not sure if that line means the 5 and 6 year-old are saying they saw Carnel on Thursday afternoon, or if one or more of the adults saw him as well on that Thursday.

I also have concerns about the timeline of when Carnel was last seen alive, especially if it was only the 5 and 6 yr olds that reported they saw Carnel on Thursday afternoon ... having a fenced yard, the parents may not have been outside. Just contemplating.

If LE returned to verify the accuracy of the neighbor's report as to Wed or Thur, they probably will not let it be known to the public as it is important evidence. Just wish we knew.

 

[RT51]

Many children grow up in foster care and go on to lead productive and caring lives.
Some even vow to never raise their children as they themselves were raised.

IMO

My son-in-law is a perfect example. He grew up in the system, drug addicted parents, abuse, etc. Passed from home to home, then juvenile homes as a teenager. While he has had issues, such as keeping a job, he is a wonderful husband and a stay at home father. Their choice of my daugher working with a good paying, secure position, works well for them. When my daughter first met him, she would come home crying from some of the stories he told. She had never been exposed to anything like that. He is rather protective of my granddaughter, but I can fully understand as he experienced what it is like out there. She is a happy loving baby.

 

[katydid23]

I do not believe LE would state neighbors saw Carnel on Thursday afternoon, if they were not sure or that was not confirmed.

They talked to him through the fence and saw him thursday, imo, means when they talked they talked through the fence - Often as would be any time neighbors with a fence talked to each other.

There is no information from MSM or LE indicating the timeline of someone other than mom and AB seeing Carnel alive Thursday afternoon is inaccurate. Thursday is Thursday. It doesn't matter if it was before she left for work. What matters is it was Thursday.

Imo, it does matter if it was before or after she left for work. Because she tells us that he was laying on her bed, watching cartoons when she went to work. So I have to wonder, was he already hurt? Did she witness another violent incident right before she left?

 

[Angleena]

I am really not trying to be argumentative....and I say this with all due respect, but your statements are just not correct. I am just trying to give you, and anyone else reading here the correct information.

When a parent uses drugs...even occasional,recreational use....it puts children in their care at risk. It is NEVER harmless when a child is depending on an adult to be in charge. Using drugs impairs a person's judgement, and being a parent does not exclude a drug user from being affected. Even casual use can affect a child when the parent is less than diligent due to being high or in any altered state. Many accidents and deaths have happened under those circumstances. Many children have suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a care giver under the influence of drugs because being high lowers a person's inhibitions.
And there are thousands of documented cases of abused, neglected and murdered children due to drug use by their parents....even the same casual drug use you mentioned.

And as I said before...it is well documented that drug use destroys the parental instinct to put a child first and to protect children from harm. Do some research. There are literally tens of thousands of case out there. Normal, caring people do not keep their responsible personalities when they are high because of the chemical changes going on in the brain. It's a myth that people can use and still maintain good judgement.

I can't think of any drug used in any recreational way that does not have the potential to become addictive. If a drug or substance can get you high....it can become addictive either physically or mentally. That does include marijuana. Most marijuana on the streets now is much more potent, and is often mixed with other substances. For many people it can cause a powerful dependence.

With all due respect, I totally disagree. Above portion BBM. Under those thoughts, that means the parent that indulges in a glass of wine from time to time while their children are home, is in fact, putting their child in harms way. It cannot be argued, alcohol IS a mind altering substance. That would mean that almost every parent at one time or another has put their children in harms way, unless they are a parent that has never touched alcohol while their children are home.

To say, "When a parent uses drugs...even occasional,recreational use....it puts children in their care at risk." makes very little sense. That thought process says that every parent who has indulged in a single glass of wine, has taken pain medication after surgery, or takes a muscle relaxer for a pulled muscle has put their children at risk if they did so while their children were in their care. To group anyone that uses a drug, even for valid reasons, in the same class as a child killer is flawed on so many levels.

To even begin to discuss how addiction can harm children, a person has to understand addiction. Once addiction is understood, it's easy to see that a drug addict doesn't just become a child killer. However, a child killer can become a drug addict. Alcohol abuse, drug abuse (an addiction) are only symptoms of the disease. Addiction is addiction, weather it be an addiction to food, sex, drugs, alcohol, etc., it's all comes from the same place and that is it's all a manifestation of a character defect. That character defect could be anything from a serial killer to a young girl who simply has a low self esteem.

Addiction does not translate to child killer. However, addiction may manifest itself as a symptom in a child killer.

What I am trying to say is someone that will kill a child under the influence, will also kill a child while not under the influence. Saying drugs/alcohol is the cause is to give a child killer an excuse for their actions (by saying they were not in the right frame of mind) and I'm not willing to give a child killer (or any criminal for that matter) that excuse.

 

[Cubby]

Imo, it does matter if it was before or after she left for work. Because she tells us that he was laying on her bed, watching cartoons when she went to work. So I have to wonder, was he already hurt? Did she witness another violent incident right before she left?

It matters in regards to the speculation he was deceased on Wednesday. That is what I responded to. There is wild speculation, with little fact to go on, with regards to the mother having knowledge of his being deceased or being in a condition requiring immediate medical attention such as that which Stephanie Sloop knew little Ethan needed and failed to provide PRIOR to leaving for work on Thursday.


Fact:
LE has stated all along the mother was fully cooperative.
Mother stated she passed two polygraphs's, that matches the above info from LE and LE did not DENY she passed.
Neighbors saw Carnel Thursday afternoon playing outside.


I have no reason to believe LE or the neighbors are putting deceitful inaccurate info out to the media.

 

[tlcya]

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/07/jaimee_chamberlain_is_not_runn.html

Family members of Jaimee Chamberlain said Friday night that rumors she is on the run or hiding from police are untrue.

snip

[sister, Tammy] She said hate and negative comments directed toward Jaimee Chamberlain are unnecessary.

continued prayers for Carnel's family.

 

[Woodland]

Unable to find where LE is stating the neighbors saw Carnel on Thursday, at any time of day. Can only find where the neighbors are saying that to the press, along with their family portrait in the paper.

 

[Cubby]

Ok, I gotta ask/comment.

Tammy Chamberlain said the experience has been traumatic for her sister, Jaimee, 21, a young mother afraid for her and her son's safety if she told anyone about the alleged abuse going on by her now ex-boyfriend, Anthony Bennett.

"She was scared to tell anybody," Tammy said.

<snip>

But Jaimee had known violence before she got together with Bennett.

Her ex-boyfriend, Carnel's father, went to prison for abusing Jaimee, and once "put her in the hospital" after a physical attack, family members said.

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/07/jaimee_chamberlain_is_not_runn.html

Here is what I don't understand. If she was afraid to tell, why would she ever leave Carnel alone with AB, ever? Why would she take a job knowing she had to leave Carnel with AB? I understand being afraid to tell, but afraid to tell and then choosing to leave your child alone with ones abuser, I do not understand.

As a previous victim of abuse by Carnels birth father, which according to MSM escalated to prison time, why did she completely miss the signs with AB?

I find myself wondering if JC had any victim services after being a victim of abuse by her sons father. Any victim services provided by the courts. Counseling, awareness of some sort.

 

[tlcya]

Ok, I gotta ask/comment.

Tammy Chamberlain said the experience has been traumatic for her sister, Jaimee, 21, a young mother afraid for her and her son's safety if she told anyone about the alleged abuse going on by her now ex-boyfriend, Anthony Bennett.

"She was scared to tell anybody," Tammy said.

<snip>

But Jaimee had known violence before she got together with Bennett.

Her ex-boyfriend, Carnel's father, went to prison for abusing Jaimee, and once "put her in the hospital" after a physical attack, family members said.


Here is what I don't understand. If she was afraid to tell, why would she ever leave Carnel alone with AB, ever? Why would she take a job knowing she had to leave Carnel with AB? I understand being afraid to tell, but afraid to tell and then choosing to leave your child alone with ones abuser, I do not understand.

As a previous victim of abuse by Carnels birth father, which according to MSM escalated to prison time, why did she completely miss the signs with AB?

I find myself wondering if JC had any victim services after being a victim of abuse by her sons father. Any victim services provided by the courts. Counseling, awareness of some sort.

Not excusing any failure to act by JC but in response to your questions BBM, it may all boil down to the lack of real change after getting out of the first abusive situation.

Carnel's father went to jail for DV but that doesn't solve the underlying problem of what is lacking or broken within a woman to bring her to a point of tolerating that sort of abuse to begin with. If that wasn't addressed then I find it natural for JC to have been attracted to those same type qualities in her next relationship.

If you don't acknowledge the mistakes of the past you are doomed to repeat them. I think JC has a type, and it is not a good one. Getting out of the first abusive situation did not resolve whatever is going on inside of her that attracts her to men who might be a danger. It just freed her up for the next one.

 

[mmmagique]

I am really not trying to be argumentative....and I say this with all due respect, but your statements are just not correct. I am just trying to give you, and anyone else reading here the correct information.

When a parent uses drugs...even occasional,recreational use....it puts children in their care at risk. It is NEVER harmless when a child is depending on an adult to be in charge. Using drugs impairs a person's judgement, and being a parent does not exclude a drug user from being affected. Even casual use can affect a child when the parent is less than diligent due to being high or in any altered state. Many accidents and deaths have happened under those circumstances. Many children have suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a care giver under the influence of drugs because being high lowers a person's inhibitions.
And there are thousands of documented cases of abused, neglected and murdered children due to drug use by their parents....even the same casual drug use you mentioned.

And as I said before...it is well documented that drug use destroys the parental instinct to put a child first and to protect children from harm. Do some research. There are literally tens of thousands of case out there. Normal, caring people do not keep their responsible personalities when they are high because of the chemical changes going on in the brain. It's a myth that people can use and still maintain good judgement.

I can't think of any drug used in any recreational way that does not have the potential to become addictive. If a drug or substance can get you high....it can become addictive either physically or mentally. That does include marijuana. Most marijuana on the streets now is much more potent, and is often mixed with other substances. For many people it can cause a powerful dependence.

I have used (in the past) a few different types of drugs. (I quit, except for alcohol a long time ago)

I have always been protective and loving, I've always kept a sharp eye out for signs people are getting "too familiar" with my children, and I would never, EVER (even if under some strange influence) allow someone to harm my children, let alone do it myself.

You are painting everyone who uses drugs or alcohol with a very wide brush, and it's just not true.