GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #2

  • #481
I can't imagine that toxicology is going to give them their answer as to how Carnel died, JMO.

If they cannot determine his cause of death, will they be able to charge anyone? Will they be able to prove he did not crawl in there on his own?

I have a feeling we will get results from the remains in terms of damage to the skull, ribs, or other bones. If not, the body was dismembered and burnt. That would be enough to cause death.

In spite of that other trial, cause of death is not something the prosecution has to prove, just that the person is dead at the hands of another, which is certainly the case here. It would be better, however if a specific cause of death can be found.
 
  • #482
I can't imagine that toxicology is going to give them their answer as to how Carnel died, JMO.

If they cannot determine his cause of death, will they be able to charge anyone? Will they be able to prove he did not crawl in there on his own?

I could see this being intimated to a jury by a sleazy defense attorney. What kind of a world do we live in, that this thought could even be entertained? Sickening!

I doubt we will ever know the true COD. Anthony Bennett will never tell the whole truth of what he did to Carnel. Going forward, it will be all about saving his own behind. I have no doubt he and his attorney will throw anything and everything at the wall to see what sticks, including Jaimee. We're seeing this already in the abuse charges. His attorney stated Carnel was never treated for his injuries, no documentation outside of Jaimee's own testimony.

Monday will be interesting, I hope we learn more from the federal prosecutor.
 
  • #483
If the rumor Carnel was dismembered proves to be true, then clearly Carnel did not cut himself up, burn himself and then crawl into a grave and bury himself under the porch.

There is no statute of limitations on murder, and while it's frustrating awaiting charges, I am sure the prosecution wants to make sure they get this one right for Carnel.


I just hope there ARE murder charges in this case at some point. If this is another Mariha Trenice Smith case in which someone is arrested for something other than the murder and that's the end of it, I think a lot of people will be very angry, including myself.
 
  • #484
I could see this being intimated to a jury by a sleazy defense attorney. What kind of a world do we live in, that this thought could even be entertained? Sickening!

I doubt we will ever know the true COD. Anthony Bennett will never tell the whole truth of what he did to Carnel. Going forward, it will be all about saving his own behind. I have no doubt he and his attorney will throw anything and everything at the wall to see what sticks, including Jaimee. We're seeing this already in the abuse charges. His attorney stated Carnel was never treated for his injuries, no documentation outside of Jaimee's own testimony.

Monday will be interesting, I hope we learn more from the federal prosecutor.


Using this post as a springboard. I'm sure this may be an unpopular thought or opinion, but I need to express it.

DISCLOSURE: My having and expressing a difference of opinion other than some of those expressed in this thread does not equate to my giving anyone a free pass with regards to responsibility so to speak. I will not respond to posts with accusations of giving anyone a free pass because my opinion differs than some expressed.

I'm on the fence with regards to the allegations of abuse for which AB has been charged. People have expressed JC watched AB brutally beat her son and did nothing. I simply do not believe the beatings for which he was charged were as brutal as say, those Ethan Stacy endured before his death. I have not seen evidence to indicate the alleged beatings were of such that Carnel needed medical treatment. I simply need more evidence at this point to make the determination if prior beatings rose to the level of criminal charges, or if they are being presented as such because they are unable to charge anyone with Carnels murder.

If this is a case of he said/she said with regards to the abuse, this will be a no win situation for the prosecution.

Still waiting for credible verified info, that is not local gossip or rumor.

Praying for truth to come out for this precious child.
 
  • #485
Using this post as a springboard. I'm sure this may be an unpopular thought or opinion, but I need to express it.

DISCLOSURE: My having and expressing a difference of opinion other than some of those expressed in this thread does not equate to my giving anyone a free pass with regards to responsibility so to speak. I will not respond to posts with accusations of giving anyone a free pass because my opinion differs than some expressed.

I'm on the fence with regards to the allegations of abuse for which AB has been charged. People have expressed JC watched AB brutally beat her son and did nothing. I simply do not believe the beatings for which he was charged were as brutal as say, those Ethan Stacy endured before his death. I have not seen evidence to indicate the alleged beatings were of such that Carnel needed medical treatment. I simply need more evidence at this point to make the determination if prior beatings rose to the level of criminal charges, or if they are being presented as such because they are unable to charge anyone with Carnels murder.

If this is a case of he said/she said with regards to the abuse, this will be a no win situation for the prosecution.

Still waiting for credible verified info, that is not local gossip or rumor.

Praying for truth to come out for this precious child.

:goodpost:
 
  • #486
Using this post as a springboard. I'm sure this may be an unpopular thought or opinion, but I need to express it.

DISCLOSURE: My having and expressing a difference of opinion other than some of those expressed in this thread does not equate to my giving anyone a free pass with regards to responsibility so to speak. I will not respond to posts with accusations of giving anyone a free pass because my opinion differs than some expressed.

I'm on the fence with regards to the allegations of abuse for which AB has been charged. People have expressed JC watched AB brutally beat her son and did nothing. I simply do not believe the beatings for which he was charged were as brutal as say, those Ethan Stacy endured before his death. I have not seen evidence to indicate the alleged beatings were of such that Carnel needed medical treatment. I simply need more evidence at this point to make the determination if prior beatings rose to the level of criminal charges, or if they are being presented as such because they are unable to charge anyone with Carnels murder.

If this is a case of he said/she said with regards to the abuse, this will be a no win situation for the prosecution.

Still waiting for credible verified info, that is not local gossip or rumor.

Praying for truth to come out for this precious child.

I'm interested in furthering the discussion, not arguing. We all agree that there are few known facts in this case and what is being expressed is opinion only. I personally, have decided not to discuss Jaimee's role until we have more information, period.
icon7.gif


So ... you raised a good point Cubby. If the strength of the abuse charge is the testimony from Jaimee, how will the prosecution prove their case?

AmandaRW adjusted the contrast in a picture of Carnel. Their were visible bruises on his little body. IIRC, this was the photo of him without a shirt, with sunglasses on his head. I wonder if there could be more photo's like this? Did Jaimee mention any of this to someone? There could be independent witness' who come forward at the hearing on Monday.
 
  • #487
If the rumor Carnel was dismembered proves to be true, then clearly Carnel did not cut himself up, burn himself and then crawl into a grave and bury himself under the porch.

There is no statute of limitations on murder, and while it's frustrating awaiting charges, I am sure the prosecution wants to make sure they get this one right for Carnel.


I just hope there ARE murder charges in this case at some point. If this is another Mariha Trenice Smith case in which someone is arrested for something other than the murder and that's the end of it, I think a lot of people will be very angry, including myself.

BBM

The fact that they are staying Federal by using an assault charge, rather than an abuse charge, is a good sign. They.ve got something up their sleeve to be able to do that.
 
  • #488
I have an update from someone who is getting regular updates from police because he is family... Apparently it is looking more and more like it was a premeditated murder.
 
  • #489
I have an update from someone who is getting regular updates from police because he is family... Apparently it is looking more and more like it was a premeditated murder.

Can you expound?
 
  • #490
BBM

The fact that they are staying Federal by using an assault charge, rather than an abuse charge, is a good sign. They.ve got something up their sleeve to be able to do that.


It's my understanding that jurisdiction issues allow that and I'm not quite sure I fully understand the differences in what jurisdiction will handle what.

Can someone please explain again, in laymans terms, what the differences are when a case is charged by the tribal police versus federal, when it is Native American on Native American crime?

Also, AB's previous convictions, where they federal or tribal convictions?

tia
 
  • #491
I have an update from someone who is getting regular updates from police because he is family... Apparently it is looking more and more like it was a premeditated murder.


Why would LE be sharing information with "family" that could jeoprodize charges or even getting this to trial?

There is something hinky about this alleged info coming from family, when it is clear there is fighting among/within the victims family.

How and why would LE be calling a murder premeditated before they have even filed murder charges? hinky meter up on this one.


<modsnip>
 
  • #492
I mean no disrespect to anyone here by the following post...

I hold JC just as accountable as Ethan's Mom. Both of these mothers failed their sons, and now both children are just as dead.
An abused child has no one else to step in and provide protection in those types of situations. Abusers are not in control of their anger, and at any time a child could die from injuries inflicted while the abuser is in a rage, or unable to control the urge to harm a child. The vast majority of abused children do not get needed medical attention after being abused....for obvious reasons.
Carnel was murdered because AB is a violent, abusive 🤬🤬🤬🤬. But AB was in a position to cause great harm to that precious little boy because JC allowed it. If a parent invites a violent person to live in a home with a vulnerable child, and that child is abused AT ANY LEVEL...then that parent should be prosecuted. It's putting a child at risk just as much, if not more, than allowing a child to ride in a car without a child restraint. A parent will get an expensive ticket for an unrestrained child riding in a car. There should be at least that much concern about the living situation when a child's life is at stake.

At this point, we don't really know what exactly was done to Carnel, but there is no doubt that he suffered, and that JC was aware of his suffering. If she had been a responsible parent, she would've taken her child to a DR to have his injuries assessed, and AB would've been turned in to the police.

I cannot understand a sliding scale of responsibility for any parent who has witnessed a child being abused.



IMHO.
 
  • #493
I don't usually quote Wiki, but this is accurate.


BBM and FYI...

Premeditated murder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension."

"State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder."


Also....

http://www.sjosephcross.com/FM/murder.aspx

"First degree murder: felony: mandatory life; no parole) -- "felony murder" (murder committed in the course of another felony), murdering a peace officer in the line of duty, or "premeditated murder". Murder cannot occur accidentally, the defendant must have intended to kill. Premeditation means that the defendant had time to consider the pros and cons of the killing beforehand."
 
  • #494
Why would LE be sharing information with "family" that could jeoprodize charges or even getting this to trial?

There is something hinky about this alleged info coming from family, when it is clear there is fighting among/within the victims family.

How and why would LE be calling a murder premeditated before they have even filed murder charges? hinky meter up on this one.


<modsnip>

<modsnip> You can find my sources information as suspicious as you want but you didn't need to say a thing, I just figured people would want to hear what I am hearing. Of course they give the family at least a little information, my friend and the rest of the immediate chamberlain family are directly in contact with police, of course they don't give him every case detail but they did give him that. How about you stick to posting the information you find sleuthing the Internet and I will stick to posting my information directly from the family.
 
  • #495
Why would LE be sharing information with "family" that could jeoprodize charges or even getting this to trial?

There is something hinky about this alleged info coming from family, when it is clear there is fighting among/within the victims family.

How and why would LE be calling a murder premeditated before they have even filed murder charges? hinky meter up on this one.

<modsnip>

And I'm sure the cases you ...followed... Were not on a very close knit Indian tribe. It is different.
 
  • #496
I mean no disrespect to anyone here by the following post...

I hold JC just as accountable as Ethan's Mom. Both of these mothers failed their sons, and now both children are just as dead.

I cannot understand a sliding scale of responsibility for any parent who has witnessed a child being abused.



IMHO.


Respectfully snipped. The sliding scale, imo, is based on criminal charges and TOS. Stephanie Sloop has been charged in Ethan Stacey's case. Jaimee Chamberlain has NOT been charged in Carnel's case.

Very different situations, imo. One met the bar for criminal charges. To date, according to the authorities, the other has not.

My understanding of TOS is we can not accuse someone of criminal activity/behavior if they have not been charged with a crime. Maybe the mods can chime in and further clarify the rules/TOS on accusing someone of criminal behavior when they have not been charged with a crime.

Jaimee Chamberlain HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME.

My interest here lies in the truth. The truth is what Carnel deserves. The authorities and his mothers doctors, therapists, medical professionals are the ones who will know which treatment she will best respond to, to ensure she does not find herself the victim of abuse again.
 
  • #497
Mod note:

Following up here. :)

2 players are sleuthable at this time -

the perp, Anthony Bennett, and

the bio mom, Jaimee Chamberlain.


A word regarding WS "victim-friendly" policy -

We often see this misinterpreted. Understandable, the "rules" can get a bit confusing so I'm going to take this opportunity to try to add a little clarity. As most of you who have posted here for any length of time at all realize by now that there are no black & white, across the board rules, 'one size fits all' of what we permit or who is considered a "victim" in each case. Cases differ on nearly every level - we have to consider the circumstances of each one separately and decide accordingly. Websleuths, first and foremost, is victim-friendly toward the actual victim - in this case, Carnel Chamberlain.

Jaimee has admitted that she was aware of the abuse of Carnel by AB, however she chose to never report it, she obviously (at the very least) minimized the danger and showed a complete lack of responsibility by allowing AB to still keep Carnel when she was not there to protect him. Whether she regrets it now is another matter. And, in the eyes of WS, it really doesn't matter whether she regrets it or not. The fact remains that she is culpable on some level for not protecting Carnel when he was in her care. Therefore, she is sleuthable.

for emphasis

Bumping for clarity regarding how WS views Jaimee Chamberlain. Even the family spokesman voiced their regret that it was unfortunate that Jaimee did not take action.

It is what it is, unfortunately. Just because someone is not yet charged with a crime does not mean it didn't happen. (e.g., neglect, endangerment) That is a choice the State Prosecutor makes. Often crimes happen that go uncharged.
 
  • #498
There is no evidence that JC was abused by AB. You cannot make her a victim of abuse with no proof of it, either. She was in the relationship with AB by her own choice. Carnel had no choice....

It remains to be seen what will happen to JC. It's very possible that she could face charges. By her own admission...she was present when her son was being abused. How is that different? How is she less culpable?

BTW...Ethan Stacy's mom claimed to be afraid of her child's abuser, and no one gave her any sympathy.

It isn't any different in my opinion....

There is absolutely no excuse for any mother to stand by and let her child suffer. JC had options but she chose not to utilize them. That is completely on her.
 
  • #499
IIRC, the authorities have stated JC is a victim of abuse at the hands of both AB and Carnel's father.

I choose to view JC as a victim, per info from the authorities. She has not been charged with a crime. I'm sure if the authorities felt JC's actions met the bar of criminal behavior, they would have charged her. They chose not to.

What I fear, is that other victims suffering will see this and will fear reporting their abuser, if the court of public opinion see's them as responsible for their abuse. Sad, but that is how I see it.

Continues prayers for the TRUTH and NOTHING but the truth in Carnels case.
 
  • #500
IIRC, the authorities have stated JC is a victim of abuse at the hands of both AB and Carnel's father.

I choose to view JC as a victim, per info from the authorities. She has not been charged with a crime. I'm sure if the authorities felt JC's actions met the bar of criminal behavior, they would have charged her. They chose not to.

What I fear, is that other victims suffering will see this and will fear reporting their abuser, if the court of public opinion see's them as responsible for their abuse. Sad, but that is how I see it.

Continues prayers for the TRUTH and NOTHING but the truth in Carnels case.

BBM

And I fear that other mothers will see their children suffering at the hands of their abusers, and will NOT fear keeping it a secret, just like JC did. If the authorities do not see it as a problem, then why should they?
 

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