MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[Kalanit]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> (Also ex LDS here) No, the woman interviewed in the video posted by Knox on the previous page said it was right after the sacrament (ritual) and a counselor was speaking, and I believe the time was 10:30. Church started at 10 according to the witness. Sacrament meeting is longer than 30 minutes, closer to 50+ minutes I think in the new 2 hour version (used to be just around an hour in the 3 hour block). So they wouldn't be dismissing til closer to 11. Also they would be having some very serious reflective talks about the passing of the Church president so sacrament meeting could have even gone a bit longer.
After Sacrament meeting yes they go to different areas.
Side note: Most of the time LDS church buildings are used by multiple wards (different neighborhood groups) and they stagger the times to meet, so 10:00 was possibly the earliest meeting time so maybe only one ward was using the building. With this attack being so early, there was hopefully the very least number of people in the building possible for the day as a small positive thought
*my opinion/experience.

Edit to include link (hopefully, I'm not good at this)

 

[DS2021]

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/church-shooting-fire-michigan-09-28-25

 

[iamshadow21]

My daughter had an elementary/middle school friend whose family were members of the Church of Latter Day Saints in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. DD's friend talked about the classes that she attended while her parents were in a church service. I haven't read or heard anything yet about there being children's classes in Grand Blanc while the worship service was taking place.

Everyone attends sacrament meeting, from babes in arms up. It's standard. Sometimes they'll pipe the audio to a separate room for mothers with a crying or nursing infant, but not always.

MOO

 

[rsteen]

This seems like warfare, with tactics beyond active-shooter behavior.

jmopinion

Seeing the size of the fire, I wonder if he saw the church as his best opportunity to maximize casualties, rather than the reason being a personal history/connection. Just horrifying.

(And what's going on with the American flags in the back of the truck??)

 

[Warwick1991]

Pbm.
I'm thinking prob. the bolded was the construction type ?
It looks like a section of drywall collapsed diagonally, to the right of the truck ?

Here's a pic of the damage at the link :

View attachment 617053

Michigan church death toll doubles after Iraq war veteran opened fire

Police said a 40-year-old man opened fire on hundreds of people who had gathered for a service at the Church of Latter Day Saints in Grand Blanc on Sunday morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It could be gypsum sheathing, which was once common for stud walls with a brick veneer.

 

[weepingangel]

Snipped by me

(And what's going on with the American flags in the back of the truck??)

This is a pretty common method used to display ones “patriotism”.

 

[Inthedetails]

Seeing the size of the fire, I wonder if he saw the church as his best opportunity to maximize casualties, rather than the reason being a personal history/connection. Just horrifying.

(And what's going on with the American flags in the back of the truck??)

That's where I am leaning at the moment, that he was looking to cause max amount of casualities and the local LDS church has a good-sized congregation for him to target. Maybe he considered other churches but finally decided on this one. idk

But of course, we know next to nothing about him at the moment. Perhaps there is a personal reason having to do with family or faith we'll learn about. At the moment, it just looks like mass destruction for the sake of destruction, imo.


jmopinion

 

[Tillicum]

It's just awful to think LE arrived in less than 1 minute and THIS isn't something they can really prepare for. Someone shooting, setting fire, AND having IED's. I mean come on, LE can prepare for many things, but sometimes the evil just surpasses anything that can be planned for or anticipated. This is unthinkable.

My husband and I are on the security team at church. We were trained by our county sheriff. We have a pretty extensive set up with cameras, monitors and armed and wired congregants throughout the building. We are not prepared for anything like this.

It seems like the copycat shooters try to outdo the last shooter. I hope and pray this doesn't become a common method.

 

[Inthedetails]

This is a pretty common method used to display ones “patriotism”.

Of course, but in terms of destroying a church (that was founded in USA, fwiw) and killing church-goers, what do the flags mean? idk

jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

I know that we're not meant to bring politics into this, and that isn't my intention, but I do wonder if we will find out in the coming days that this was some kind of retaliation for the killing of Charlie Kirk. Never mind that the killer in that case had rejected the LDS standpoint on many issues, and that's why he killed in the first place. A violent, angry person might not look deeply enough to understand that, and might just be angry at LDS people as a whole because of the actions of one man.

MOO

 

[whitelilac]

My husband and I are on the security team at church. We were trained by our county sheriff. We have a pretty extensive set up with cameras, monitors and armed and wired congregants throughout the building. We are not prepared for anything like this.

It seems like the copycat shooters try to outdo the last shooter. I hope and pray this doesn't become a common method.

It's outrageous that these days a church would need security and armed congregants.

 

[DS2021]

Does anyone have a hard time believing a fire of this magnitude was set from scratch?

They said from 911 call to him being shot took around 10 minutes.

 

[iamshadow21]

Does anyone have a hard time believing a fire of this magnitude was set from scratch?

They said from 911 call to him being shot took around 10 minutes.

The church I attended as a kid was floored throughout with cheap, hard-wearing synthetic carpet. The curtains were all polyester, including the stage curtains in the hall at the back, where members put on plays and musical performances. The dividing partition between the chapel and the hall was vinyl and metal. Everything was painted gloss white, and everything else was varnished. The pews were wood, the chairs in the classrooms were plastic, and the area dividers for the hall were plywood and more synthetic carpet. I know that it doesn't seem like there'd be much to burn in what seems like a big empty building, but there is. Especially when there's no shortage of oxygen, which given the big hole he made in the wall, there would be.

MOO

 

[angelainwi]

That's where I am leaning at the moment, that he was looking to cause max amount of casualities and the local LDS church has a good-sized congregation for him to target. Maybe he considered other churches but finally decided on this one. idk

But of course, we know next to nothing about him at the moment. Perhaps there is a personal reason having to do with family or faith we'll learn about. At the moment, it just looks like mass destruction for the sake of destruction, imo.


jmopinion

It is possible that his wife and family members go to church there...

 

[whitelilac]

It appears that Sanford's young son has a medical condition that has taken a financial toll on the family, even requiring Sanford to take a leave of absence from his work.
I wonder if there might be a connection to his present state of mind.

"According to a GoFundMe page from 2015, the family was in need of donations to help pay for the medical care of Sanford’s son, who was born with a rare genetic disorder.

The newborn was diagnosed with a condition called congenital hyperinsulinism, which required a lengthy hospital stay and several surgeries to remove portions of the pancreas, according to a family Facebook page documenting the difficult journey.

The child’s medical condition took a financial toll on the family, with one local news article reporting Sanford took leave from his work as a truck driver for Coca-Cola to be with his son."

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/church-shooting-fire-michigan-09-28-25?t=1759101706153

 

[IceIce9]

It's outrageous that these days a church would need security and armed congregants.

One of the trainings I conduct is Active Shooter training, and the last training I conducted was at a church.

 

[Inthedetails]

It appears that Sanford's young son has a medical condition that has taken a financial toll on the family, even requiring Sanford to take a leave of absence from his work.
I wonder if there might be a connection to his present state of mind.

"According to a GoFundMe page from 2015, the family was in need of donations to help pay for the medical care of Sanford’s son, who was born with a rare genetic disorder.

The newborn was diagnosed with a condition called congenital hyperinsulinism, which required a lengthy hospital stay and several surgeries to remove portions of the pancreas, according to a family Facebook page documenting the difficult journey.

The child’s medical condition took a financial toll on the family, with one local news article reporting Sanford took leave from his work as a truck driver for Coca-Cola to be with his son."

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/church-shooting-fire-michigan-09-28-25?t=1759101706153

That is a major source of stress, for sure. When men his age commit violence, imo, it is often because of financial stress, though usually targeted at family not a congregation. imo

(Note: I am NOT saying stress is an excuse for violence.)

jmopinion

jmo

 

[justtrish]

Does anyone have a hard time believing a fire of this magnitude was set from scratch?

They said from 911 call to him being shot took around 10 minutes.

I am thinking the fire might have got out of hand because of the risk of IED's or other possible shooters inside. Some in the church were likely hiding and unaware a fire was started. If the scene isn't secure can firefighters even get close enough to start knocking the fire down? I think most fires are put out quickly because it's not at an active shooter situation. Typically, firefighters can get right to it. Did the church have a sprinkler system? Maybe it didn't work allowing the fire to grow quickly before firefighters could get to it.

 

[Inthedetails]

Perhaps we'll learn a connection to the church?

Sometime around 2010 he lived in Utah. He returned to Michigan where he grew up and married a local woman. (Summary of paywall article)

Live Updates: At Least 2 Dead, 8 Wounded in Michigan Church Shooting

The police said they believed the gunman also intentionally set fire to a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints building near Flint. The attacker died after exchanging fire with responding officers.

www.nytimes.com

 

[whitelilac]

I believe there will be another update at 8 pm, which is now, but I don't see anything yet.