MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[Cryptic]

I don't know what you mean by special events. If you mean that it was a fast and testimony meeting that day, that's nothing unusual, there's one every month. I did wonder if there might have been more attending because of the death of the prophet the day before, but an active member on the thread said there was not.

Yes, I believe that is what the article referring to. Though I cannot remember what terminology they may have used for the meeting, they mentioned the leadership death.

 

[Inthedetails]

Comments from a friend of the perp:

“How do you mourn the death of someone who did something so terrible?” Kara Pattison said. “If you asked me out of everybody I know to pick 10 people you think might do something like this, I wouldn’t not pick him. And I hate saying that.”

Pattison said she knew Sanford as a “fun-loving family guy,” but also someone who “harbored unkind feelings toward certain groups.”

“He definitely talked about groups of people in ways that weren’t acceptable,” Pattison said.

Extended family of Grand Blanc Township church attacker releases statement

The extended family of the man who killed four people and injured several others at a Grand Blanc Township church released a statement on Tuesday.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes, I believe that is what the article referring to. Though I cannot remember what terminology they may have used for the meeting, they mentioned the leadership death.

Fast and testimony meeting is a regular session that differs from other sacrament meetings in structure, but is not a 'special event' that would draw an unusual crowd.

A regular sacrament meeting, after announcements and sacrament, there are around three members who give a talk each on certain subjects. These are preprepared.

At a fast and testimony meeting, after an initial speaker, the meeting is opened up for any member who feels moved to to get up and bear their testimony of the church, the gospel, of Jesus Christ, etc. Anyone, from adults down to toddlers can speak. There are no restrictions to time or subject. Some testimonies are deeply personal, others repeat commonly used phrases like 'I know the Church is true'. Generally, members restrict their testimonies to a few minutes to allow as many others as wish to the time to speak. As with all LDS church gatherings, there is no applause or vocal call and answer for what is said, testimonies are received by the congregation in silence, with the exception of the echoing of 'amen' with the testimony speaker at the end.

From the eyewitness article on Deseret News, at the time the attack took place, that first initial speaker was still at the pulpit and had spoken about the prophet's death.

MOO

 

[House of Holden]

Grand Blanc is about 35 miles northwest of where I live.

I live approximately 1.5 hours from Grabd Blanc. A lady I work with grew up there and knows one of the shooting victims who survived. Apparently he’s in a coma and just underwent a second surgery. So shocking and upsetting..

 

[iamshadow21]

I live approximately 1.5 hours from Grabd Blanc. A lady I work with grew up there and knows one of the shooting victims who survived. Apparently he’s in a coma and just underwent a second surgery. So shocking and upsetting..

Yes, it seems like a smallish place and there seems to be a lot of interconnectedness with the LDS congregation and the nonLDS community, which is wonderful. Both the Catholic and Lutheran churches nearby have opened their churches for use if Grand Blanc Ward needs them. The Lutheran church held a vigil the day after the attack. One of their congregants said that the Grand Blanc Relief Society had brought her meals while she was undergoing cancer treatment, and not just those few LDS ladies she knew, but the Relief Society as a whole. The broader community are embracing Grand Blanc Ward and the LDS in their community as a whole, which is great to see, because everyone should be helping and supporting their fellow humans right now rather than highlighting differences.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes, it seems like a smallish place and there seems to be a lot of interconnectedness with the LDS congregation and the nonLDS community, which is wonderful. Both the Catholic and Lutheran churches nearby have opened their churches for use if Grand Blanc Ward needs them. The Lutheran church held a vigil the day after the attack. One of their congregants said that the Grand Blanc Relief Society had brought her meals while she was undergoing cancer treatment, and not just those few LDS ladies she knew, but the Relief Society as a whole. The broader community are embracing Grand Blanc Ward and the LDS in their community as a whole, which is great to see, because everyone should be helping and supporting their fellow humans right now rather than highlighting differences.

MOO

That's how you do it, folks. I really appreciate reading this and seeing the example set for the rest of us to follow.

Feeling grateful for the kindness we used to take for granted.

jmopinion

 

[OneLove]

I wondered if maybe he was getting his terms mixed up and meant "endowment" rather than "sealing"

I'm not familiar with the term "endowment". I understand being sealed. Can you explain what "endowment" is in reference to LDS culture?

 

[FaerieDust]

I think the consensus is he wouldn't have been required to remove his tattoos, but seems that HE thought it was required. We don't know the details or accuracy of his story, but it seems he recently told someone he was asked to remove his tattoos.

Whatever was asked of him - or whatever HE THOUGHT was asked of him - it seems to have affected him deeply. It's entirely possible he's been offended for years over a misunderstanding.

I'm wondering if his tattoos represent his time in the military. I'm sure he bonded with his fellow soldiers and identified as American military. Perhaps that explains why he displayed flags as he rammed into the LDS church.

Again, I'm not commenting about tattoos in general or LDS rules specifically, but what HE might have been thinking and what might have offended HIM.

jmopinion

There’s a well known female Mormon convert influencer with full sleeve tattoos (post from 2015). So I agree, if you’re a convert it’s not seen as big a deal I think.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm not familiar with the term "endowment". I understand being sealed. Can you explain what "endowment" is in reference to LDS culture?

Not a simple or easy thing to answer in a few sentences and keep the thread on track. It's basically about dedicating yourself to God on a higher level. It's a commitment adults make (unlike baptism, which anyone over eight years old can make) and only happens in the temple.

Further reading: About the Temple Endowment | The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

 

[FaerieDust]

I'm not familiar with the term "endowment". I understand being sealed. Can you explain what "endowment" is in reference to LDS culture?

Endowment typically refers to the ceremony that allows an individual access to the temple. It is usually completed before a mission or a wedding (sealing). It requires the individual adhering to the tenets required for a temple recommend, for example abstinence from coffee, alcohol, masturbation and sex outside marriage, alongside attendance of church and testimony of belief, which is ascertained in interviews with a bishop.

More info here.

 

[House of Holden]

I can’t help but wonder if this could be related to the Charlie Kirk assasination? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the man who killed him a member of LDS? Did the church attacker in Grand Blanc see himself as avenging Kirk’s death perhaps?

 

[Inthedetails]

I can’t help but wonder if this could be related to the Charlie Kirk assasination? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the man who killed him a member of LDS? Did the church attacker in Grand Blanc see himself as avenging Kirk’s death perhaps?

From what we've heard so far, this has nothing to do with current events or politics but about the perp's long-standing personal hatred toward the LDS religion.

jmopinion

 

[iamshadow21]

I can’t help but wonder if this could be related to the Charlie Kirk assasination? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the man who killed him a member of LDS? Did the church attacker in Grand Blanc see himself as avenging Kirk’s death perhaps?

I speculated that myself early on, but given what's emerging about his fixation and rage at LDS going back over a decade, I think, like the death of the prophet, it's going to turn out to be a coincidence or just one more thing rather than a true catalyst.

He hated LDS, he thought they were the Antichrist and trying to take over the world for no real reason besides a bad breakup he had that he has never let go of despite having a marriage and a child since then with another woman. Who knows why he decided that Sunday was the day, but from everything that's being said, he was like a train on a track headed that way for a long, long time.

MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I can’t help but wonder if this could be related to the Charlie Kirk assasination? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the man who killed him a member of LDS? Did the church attacker in Grand Blanc see himself as avenging Kirk’s death perhaps?

I have also sensed that the Kirk event might have been a stimulation of action against the LDS Church. Kirk made some flowerery remarks about the church that were so totally vague and trivial, actually--- I mean, Kirk was an Evangelical and they do not hold positive feelings about LDS (and vice versa) so those events in Utah might have been a stimulus to act for TS... but I really do not think it defined his actual motive.. i think we will eventually see that his motive was truly an attack on the LDS church--pure and simple. But Why.
moo,

 

[iamshadow21]

Comments from a friend of the perp:

“How do you mourn the death of someone who did something so terrible?” Kara Pattison said. “If you asked me out of everybody I know to pick 10 people you think might do something like this, I wouldn’t not pick him. And I hate saying that.”

Pattison said she knew Sanford as a “fun-loving family guy,” but also someone who “harbored unkind feelings toward certain groups.”

“He definitely talked about groups of people in ways that weren’t acceptable,” Pattison said.

Extended family of Grand Blanc Township church attacker releases statement

The extended family of the man who killed four people and injured several others at a Grand Blanc Township church released a statement on Tuesday.

www.clickondetroit.com

Wow, I just read that article, and the part where two days earlier he made a move to run people down with his truck, then stopped, rolled down the window and laughed when he recognised they were people he was friends with is terrifying. If he hadn't recognised them, would he have even stopped?

MOO

 

[Knox]

[bbm] sorry, it's an idiom I'm unfamiliar with: what does "the most spec'd out jobs" mean, please? Is it a good thing, or otherwise?

I believe the OP might mean all LDS Churches have a standardized set of building plans. No matter where you build the material and design specifications are all the same, except maybe the size or something specific to State building codes.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I speculated that myself early on, but given what's emerging about his fixation and rage at LDS going back over a decade, I think, like the death of the prophet, it's going to turn out to be a coincidence or just one more thing rather than a true catalyst.

He hated LDS, he thought they were the Antichrist and trying to take over the world for no real reason besides a bad breakup he had that he has never let go of despite having a marriage and a child since then with another woman. Who knows why he decided that Sunday was the day, but from everything that's being said, he was like a train on a track headed that way for a long, long time.

MOO

I do agree. But I am confused a bit about his direct connection to LDS. Obviously, we are now awar of this long-ago relationship in Utah. BUT, I have heard speculation of current wife is LDS... Do we know any truth about the current wife and the family situation in general. I still feel we are eventually going to get more precide detail about this.... and am actually, a bit curious as to why we do not know more about this..... certainly moo....but curious as h.

 

[iamshadow21]

I believe the OP might mean all LDS Churches have a standardized set of building plans. No matter where you build the material and design specifications are all the same, except maybe the size or something specific to State building codes.

Except they don't? They all have the same requirements, but I don't think I've ever been in a church that's an exact copy in layout to another. They all have a chapel, offices, classrooms, bathrooms, etc, but they're never in exactly the same place.

For example - Leura, the most unique and beautiful LDS church I think I've ever seen. Constructed two years after Grand Blanc. There are better pictures just on Google, but here's as official LDS article about it. Leura Latter-day Saint Chapel Recognized for Unique Design

MOO

 

[OneLove]

I do agree. But I am confused a bit about his direct connection to LDS. Obviously, we are now awar of this long-ago relationship in Utah. BUT, I have heard speculation of current wife is LDS... Do we know any truth about the current wife and the family situation in general. I still feel we are eventually going to get more precide detail about this.... and am actually, a bit curious as to why we do not know more about this..... certainly moo....but curious as h.

It would have been a difficult home life for him to be so openly hostile about the LDS church, including being verbally verbose about it to even strangers in his own home, if his wife and mother of his medically challenged son was an active LDS member. Surely people would have taken that as a sign of dangerous extremism. Then again, we don't yet know if his home culture was an environment of extremism, do we?

 

[realanastasia]

Comments from a friend of the perp:

“How do you mourn the death of someone who did something so terrible?” Kara Pattison said. “If you asked me out of everybody I know to pick 10 people you think might do something like this, I wouldn’t not pick him. And I hate saying that.”

Pattison said she knew Sanford as a “fun-loving family guy,” but also someone who “harbored unkind feelings toward certain groups.”

“He definitely talked about groups of people in ways that weren’t acceptable,” Pattison said.

Extended family of Grand Blanc Township church attacker releases statement

The extended family of the man who killed four people and injured several others at a Grand Blanc Township church released a statement on Tuesday.

www.clickondetroit.com

I feel for the victims who say they were blindsided by this attack, but I get the sense that there was already some cognitive dissonance in the interviewees’ description of Sanford—calling him “a fun-loving family guy” who the speakers considered a friend, while acknowledging he had a history of harboring/expressing “unkind feelings” (hate) towards “certain groups” (LDS? Maybe women, given that he “jokingly” tried to commit vehicular homicide against this mother and daughter? Probably others, too?) is hard for me to understand.