MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[303gmf]

What you're saying is fans of opposing teams playing BYU have long called them "Mormons" when insulting them, yes?
Is it new that college officials and this time Colorado officials have spoken out and said they'll hold students accountable?

The Mormon church anti gay stance is what the football fans are making sport of, not the entire religion

 

[layer]

sorry, it's an idiom I'm unfamiliar with: what does "the most spec'd out jobs" mean, please? Is it a good thing, or otherwise?

Sorry, specs is short for specifications.
Let's say you're a plumber. The specs will tell you what style of sink they want and exactly where to put it, etc. A lot of the choices in how to accomplish that are left up to the contractor as long as he meets all building codes and passes all inspections. But the owner/builder can go well beyond specifying the style and location of that sink, they can specify a certain brand of sink, a certain model number, and even a specific place to acquire it from. They can even specify the type of piping to get the water there, the kind of drain pipe, etc. Extend that across all the trades and you get the idea.
The bottom line is the buildings I worked on were among the most over-engineered projects I ever worked on. They were built like battleships.

ETA: I took this photo in 2003. You can see what I mean about all the wood.

 

[Cryptic]

The Mormon church anti gay stance is what the football fans are making sport of, not the entire religion

A lot of religions have anti gay stances. Say, Baptists, and Catholics, Judaism, and Islam for starters.
I suspect that their focus on the Mormons represents something deeper.

Chanting ant Islamic slogans could be , well, dangerous. There are a lot of Catholics and Baptists in Oregon. In the end, bullies always look for the most attractive targets.

 

[PrairieWind]

The Mormon church anti gay stance is what the football fans are making sport of, not the entire religion

The chants that I heard were insults against the religion. CU in Boulder is very progressive. BYU is a very religious school and it is that aspect of BYU that draws the ire of and ridicule of those fans. CU has a long history of poor fan behavior but this is just getting to really unacceptable levels. I am not a fan of BYU but those kinds of comments are just not acceptable to me. It evidences an mind set that doesn't see these people as individuals.

 

[anneoakley63]

I sure hope the people who do this are not the type who signed up, because they WANT to take down a bad guy with a gun.

Not at all. We do this to protect our congregation FROM the bad guys. Huge difference. In the time I've been a member, we've not had anyone with weapons, but we have had 2 separate protestors and one of those was trying to film our children.

 

[TMich6811]

A Michigan church is confirming that the man accused of opening fire at a Grand Blanc Township house of worship had a recent encounter at one of its locations just days before the deadly attack.

According to the church’s statement, Sanford became agitated during that conversation, though he showed no signs of physical violence and left without incident. “While he became agitated during that interaction, he did not show any indication of physical violence, and he and his family left without incident,” the statement read.

Church Confirms Suspect Had Recent Encounter at Its Goodrich Campus Before Grand Blanc Tragedy

Church reveals new details about a recent encounter with the suspected gunman

davebondy.substack.com

I am going to report this post because I still don’t know if Dave Bondy is allowed. He’s a reputable local independent reporter

 

[Inthedetails]

A Michigan church is confirming that the man accused of opening fire at a Grand Blanc Township house of worship had a recent encounter at one of its locations just days before the deadly attack.

According to the church’s statement, Sanford became agitated during that conversation, though he showed no signs of physical violence and left without incident. “While he became agitated during that interaction, he did not show any indication of physical violence, and he and his family left without incident,” the statement read.

Church Confirms Suspect Had Recent Encounter at Its Goodrich Campus Before Grand Blanc Tragedy

Church reveals new details about a recent encounter with the suspected gunman

davebondy.substack.com

I am going to report this post because I still don’t know if Dave Bondy is allowed. He’s a reputable local independent reporter

The church where the was an encounter with the perp is a non-denominational Christain church and is not an LDS chuch. Just wanted to point that out.

jmopinion

 

[TMich6811]

The church where the was an encounter with the perp is a non-denominational Christain church and is not an LDS chuch. Just wanted to point that out.

jmopinion

And I’d love to know what agitated means and what triggered said agitation

 

[Dotta]

And I’d love to know what agitated means and what triggered said agitation

Anything can trigger a sick mind

Such an individual is seething inside and just waiting to suddenly burst.
Even a glance can set off an outburst.
Scary!

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

The Mormon church anti gay stance is what the football fans are making sport of, not the entire religion

Nonetheless, this type of hatred and rhetoric is what started in Germany against people of Jewish faith and descent.

We need to stand together against hatred. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do not ostracize people who have same sex attraction. They condone same sex intimacy.

The same as the Catholic Church, and many other religions, including Muslims.

 

[GraceG]

Maybe? It reminds me of this thing that happened in my home town when I was a teenager. This guy was well known and well liked around town. Then he did this:
Frank L Alexander Flew Plane Into San Juan Shrine
Like I said, he was well known; unlike his motive which remains a mystery to this day. I try not to get too hung up on motives beyond what is obvious - they wanted to do it.

Here's the NTSB report on that one, they labeled it suicide due to a psychological condition. He did call for evacuation first, so I don't think he intended to harm others. www.ntsb.gov

I've only worked 1 crash (outside of 9-11) involving deliberate flight into a building (very small plane) and it was suicide and attempted murder (ex spouse's home, she wasn't there).

 

[GumshoeX]

I believe the OP might mean all LDS Churches have a standardized set of building plans. No matter where you build the material and design specifications are all the same, except maybe the size or something specific to State building codes.

I work as an electrical engineering consultant and have helped with many Church projects. While there are several standardized layouts for new buildings, older LDS meetinghouses can vary quite a bit in design. The most common upgrades I see in these older buildings are HVAC improvements or standard preventative maintenance.

I noticed what appears to be some upper windows in the drone footage of the Grand Blanc meetinghouse. I’ve occasionally seen a second level of classrooms in LDS churches, but not very often—so that feature would likely be unique to the Grand Blanc building if they did have an upper floor (I could be mistaken on the second level). On my mission in Manchester, Iowa, I recall a smaller LDS congregation (a branch rather than a ward) that met in a former funeral home, which had originally been a residential mansion. Wards generally require around 300 or more active members, while branches are smaller congregations that may meet in rented spaces—or even in a member’s home in more remote areas.

There were also a couple of recent incidents of carbon monoxide exposure in meetinghouses, which led the Church to implement carbon monoxide detection in all buildings being renovated or worked on. This isn’t typically required by code, so it shows that they sometimes go above and beyond for safety. I’ve also seen seismic upgrades in temples to help reduce potential damage during earthquakes.

A few years ago, it was common for church buildings to be funded by local congregations, who would raise money for construction. Nowadays, that has changed, and funds are allocated from Church headquarters.

 

[Charlot123]

I would say to that, if you're a butch ex military guy going for a tatt to make people back the heck up from you, a dreamcatcher isn't an obvious choice? It's more the kind of thing you see on hippy girls who like yoga and crystals. That's his most obvious tattoo that's visible when he's wearing a t shirt. Sure, there's a strand of barbed wire above it, but it's far smaller and less prominent.

MOO

I didn’t mean “back the heck off”. I meant “your gaze should roll off my outer appearance”. Here is a very different example, on the totally opposite end of human qualities that we see more often: a very nice, good-looking student, slightly shy, great looks and clothes, straight A but never boasting it, somewhat thin, toned and super polished. The epitome of perfection covering a person who is horrified of being judged and prefers not to be noticed at all. It has nothing to do with criminality, of course, I am describing the nicest human beings now. But JMO outer perfection may cover deep insecurity and dislike of oneself. “maybe their gazes will roll off my looks and not go deeper” is just the defense people might use.

This guy does it differently: his look is not perfect but it is dramatic. He actively welcomes people to look at his tattoos, his flags, all the ornaments on him and around him, so that the outsiders get distracted and don’t get closer, not do they see the real him. There is some emptiness and insecurity that he is afraid of people to see. He behaves in a super friendly way, even moving neighbors lawns. He has a beard, and on younger photos his cadet cap is almost covering his eyes. His image is a barrier. All MOO.

He is not afraid of people coming closer physically …he is afraid of people looking inside him and judging him. This part is not about his hate of LDS, it is not a mental illness, just the defense. The hatred he wears on the sleeve, it is even a conversation topic, and as you correctly said, LDS is his monomania. The rest is deepest insecurity. (It seems that he had a very good family btw, ideal for him, and I am shocked at what he did to them. I wish them to get all the help, they are victims here too IMO).

Don’t get me wrong, I am horribly angry with him, for splitting the world into good and evil, for even thinking this way, even for having no strength of character to kick the drug habit that played a certain role in the end. Also, for not learning till his 40es…Surely the world, the community and the hospital were kind to his family! This was his chance to see the reality and maybe to pay back in some charity work, but he chose the opposite. (Split it into black and white and killed people.) But the flags and tattoos were his barrier JMO.

 

[bcallred]

Since sports heckling has somehow become relevant here. This is also very common, Arizona basketball, Providence basketball, Oregon football, Duke volleyball, New Mexico Soccer are memorable for me. It is part of what BYU faces, we are used to it. This Michigan event is in a completely different realm of conversation though.

More relevantly, attacks on members/facilities is also more frequent than MSM would report. List of attacks against Latter-day Saint churches - Wikipedia
is an overly thorough list because obviously the youthful vandalism is not part of this conversation, but I have been aware of multiple where I have lived. This doesn't even mention all the arson and murders in "preservation of Christianity" that drove the wagon trains to Utah initially. Missionaries are attacked frequently, theological murders have been almost unheard of for 50 years though, which is why this is so significant.

 

[layer]

Here's the NTSB report on that one, they labeled it suicide due to a psychological condition. He did call for evacuation first, so I don't think he intended to harm others. www.ntsb.gov

Thanks!
Yeah, he radio-called for all the Catholic and Methodist churches in the Lower Rio Grande Valley to be evacuated. When asked "Why?" he responded "There's a serious plot." But he didn't give anyone time to evacuate anywhere, I don't think the warnings even went out.

 

[tara83]

Nonetheless, this type of hatred and rhetoric is what started in Germany against people of Jewish faith and descent.

We need to stand together against hatred. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do not ostracize people who have same sex attraction. They condone same sex intimacy.

The same as the Catholic Church, and many other religions, including Muslims.

Did you mean to post they don't support same sex intimacy? Because as a lapsed catholic my experience was that gay people were treated very poorly by them.

 

[GumshoeX]

This reminds me of 2 Kings 6. Elisha and his city were surrounded by the enemy, yet he prayed for the Lord to blind them, led them to Samaria, opened their eyes again, and instructed the king to feed them before sending them on their way. What strikes me is that Israel was going through a very difficult season at the time, so feeding the enemy soldiers wasn’t just generous—it was costly.

Reading about the LDS members raising money for the shooter’s wife and children reminds me of that same principle — showing mercy and care even when it’s unexpected and difficult. True Christianity often looks like kindness to those we wouldn’t naturally think to help.

This reminds me of 2 Kings 6. Elisha and his city were surrounded by the enemy, yet he prayed for the Lord to blind them, led them to Samaria, opened their eyes again, and instructed the king to feed them before sending them on their way. What strikes me is that Israel was going through a very difficult season at the time, so feeding the enemy soldiers wasn’t just generous—it was costly.

Reading about the LDS members raising money for the shooter’s wife and children reminds me of that same principle — showing mercy and care even when it’s unexpected and difficult. True Christianity often looks like kindness to those we wouldn’t naturally think to help.

“I don’t like that man. I must get to know him better.” -Abraham Lincoln

 

[layer]

This article quotes his friends saying he struggled with addiction to meth. That would also explain some things.

Meth rots the brain even worse than the body

 

[TMich6811]

A Michigan church is confirming that the man accused of opening fire at a Grand Blanc Township house of worship had a recent encounter at one of its locations just days before the deadly attack.

According to the church’s statement, Sanford became agitated during that conversation, though he showed no signs of physical violence and left without incident. “While he became agitated during that interaction, he did not show any indication of physical violence, and he and his family left without incident,” the statement read.

Church Confirms Suspect Had Recent Encounter at Its Goodrich Campus Before Grand Blanc Tragedy

Church reveals new details about a recent encounter with the suspected gunman

davebondy.substack.com

I am going to report this post because I still don’t know if Dave Bondy is allowed. He’s a reputable local independent reporter

Dave Bondy was approved by admin for the this discussion only, I’ll keep an eye out for updated articles.

 

[layer]

Did you mean to post they don't support same sex intimacy? Because as a lapsed catholic my experience was that gay people were treated very poorly by them.

I think there may be a definition problem for one thing. Intimacy and sexual activity are fundamentally different concepts, even though often used interchangeably.