MI - Jesika Kelsey, 17, raped & murdered, Highland Township, 31 Dc 2008

[Kat]

B]Off Topic[/B]: I'm an Army wife of 16 years and although, I myself, have not served I called my Husband to verify the facts in the following article and he said they are accurate Part 1: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards.htm
Part 2: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards2.htm

It is my understanding at this time, the Army has not lowered it's enlistment requirements to meet the need for recruits, but I could always be wrong.

On Topic: This young man's age is listed as 19. One theory as to why he commited this atrocious crime against a sister that he evidently loved by all accounts could be a psychotic break. Isn't late teens for males a target age range for the first symptoms of schizophrenia? I know that schizophrenics are not neccessarily violent but a psychotic episode could induce this behavoir. Or drug use may have induced an episode if he had the predisposition for the form of this illness that can be violent...(paranoid schizophrenia)? Just a thought.

 

[MIMOMMY]

Just a little more info - This crime happened about 10 minutes from where we live.


Its being said locally that she had openly expressed a "fear" of her brother and of him "snapping" but if you read the attached article from the local paper - it tells a different story???


http://www.livingstondaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090104/NEWS01/90104004

 

[Piglitsmum]

Tyrone Party Store owner Mike Wood said it was apparent Steven Kelsey was attempting to hide from authorities before his arrest, which Wood said happened just after 6 p.m. inside his store.

"Wood said the appeared frightened, hungry and cold, as well as mentally disturbed.

He said he called 911 after it appeared the suspect was lurking around his store for about 20 minutes.

The store owner said he gave Steven Kelsey a slice of pizza because he felt badly for him at the time.

“He was just looking for a warm place to stay because he had obviously been out in the weather for a long time. He looked like he’d been beat up, is what he reminded me of; someone who had a really rough day,” Wood said.

Wood said the man didn’t put up a fight during the arrest".

Sounds from the article and his behaviours that this might have been triggered by an alcohol and substance induced psychosis... They look from their pictures like full siblings, and to all intents were close growing up...So something odd and out of the ordinary must have occurred to set this chain of actions in motion. Very, very tragic for the family.

I also don't want to be controversial in any way here and I respect all the military families here and other people who are, or have been, involved in some way, and recognise the excellent works across the world, but to train someone to be able to murder other folks, it happens that they are sometimes put through some aspects of training that can 'tip' a small minority of vulnerable minds into psychosis... As we are aware, there are growing domestic violence cases occurring too, often influenced by alcohol, training and post-traumatic stress, among other things...

 

[kimberdawn]

The poor parents....I couldn't imagine anything more horrible than knowing one of your children killed then raped your other child.....such a horrible senseless tragedy

 

[STEADFAST]

I also don't want to be controversial in any way here and I respect all the military families here and other people who are, or have been, involved in some way, and recognise the excellent works across the world, but to train someone to be able to murder other folks, it happens that they are sometimes put through some aspects of training that can 'tip' a small minority of vulnerable minds into psychosis... As we are aware, there are growing domestic violence cases occurring too, often influenced by alcohol, training and post-traumatic stress, among other things...

Actually, the New York Times recently did an article about the 121 murders committed by returning veterans. (Their point was that returning veterans are dangerous killers) But, since then, it has been pointed out in many places that all the NYT's article did was prove that the murder rate among returning veterans is MUCH LOWER than the rate for civilians in the same age group.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2008/01/more-lies-damned-lies-and-stat/

 

[MeoW333]

B]Off Topic[/b]: I'm an Army wife of 16 years and although, I myself, have not served I called my Husband to verify the facts in the following article and he said they are accurate Part 1: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards.htm
Part 2: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards2.htm

It is my understanding at this time, the Army has not lowered it's enlistment requirements to meet the need for recruits, but I could always be wrong.

On Topic: This young man's age is listed as 19. One theory as to why he commited this atrocious crime against a sister that he evidently loved by all accounts could be a psychotic break. Isn't late teens for males a target age range for the first symptoms of schizophrenia? I know that schizophrenics are not neccessarily violent but a psychotic episode could induce this behavoir. Or drug use may have induced an episode if he had the predisposition for the form of this illness that can be violent...(paranoid schizophrenia)? Just a thought.

I have a lot of family and friends who have been and are in the service.
At one point, it was mentioned by one of them that at one point in time (can't pinpoint it other than in the last decade) the army wouldn't take people who had been on psychiatric medication either after age 12.. i can't remember the details; now they take people who are on antidepressants, anti anxiety medication, the army doctors will prescribe it for those that need it on base. (Obviously these aren't serious psychiatric problems like that of schizophrenia) I'm just not sure at what time the rules have laxed; may have been moreso society's acceptance of mental illness better.
Sorry for the ramble :bananalama:

If this young man in the case was suffering from psychosis, i wonder if he showed any warning signs. If he was living on a base, most of the time a lot of young people from bases frequent bars near the base; i'm wondering if any of his buddies may have noticed he was a bit "off". Combined with the stress of having to go to Iraq (when he may not have been mentally ready; yet was able to hide it during basic) not to mention alcohol or drugs playing a factor, could have triggered him to snap. I couldn't imagine anyone so violently murdering and then raping their sister. It's psychotic.

 

[MeoW333]

I also don't want to be controversial in any way here and I respect all the military families here and other people who are, or have been, involved in some way, and recognise the excellent works across the world, but to train someone to be able to murder other folks, it happens that they are sometimes put through some aspects of training that can 'tip' a small minority of vulnerable minds into psychosis... As we are aware, there are growing domestic violence cases occurring too, often influenced by alcohol, training and post-traumatic stress, among other things...

Respectfully snipped

I agree with this, that this type of training (distancing oneself from the act of having to kill in war and prepare for the atrocities and possibility of putting one's life on the line, see buddies die) may trigger psychosis in people who may have underlying psychiatric issues. (Whether or not those issues have been addressed or not).
The guy was 19 years old, some mental illnesses start to show themselves (lack of a better term) around that age. Most likely being the transition of life i.e. college, leaving home for first times, being under stressors.

 

[MIMOMMY]

Todays update on the case - This is all over the papers here, normally I would say its a pretty low crime area - but within the last few months we've had an increased amount of what seems to be a lot of drug related crimes, and several "family" murders.....

http://www.livingstondaily.com/article/20090106/NEWS01/901060311/1002

 

[Kat]

I have a lot of family and friends who have been and are in the service.
At one point, it was mentioned by one of them that at one point in time (can't pinpoint it other than in the last decade) the army wouldn't take people who had been on psychiatric medication either after age 12.. i can't remember the details; now they take people who are on antidepressants, anti anxiety medication, the army doctors will prescribe it for those that need it on base. (Obviously these aren't serious psychiatric problems like that of schizophrenia) I'm just not sure at what time the rules have laxed; may have been moreso society's acceptance of mental illness better.
Sorry for the ramble :bananalama:

*respectfully snipped*

And Way off topic

MeoW333, I am by no means an expert on all things military unless you count volunteer work for the military families that I do and helping them to find the resources they need to not only survive the atmosphere of the military today but to thrive.
I checked with a friend of my DH who was a recruiter during his last duty station and he said that (and this only applies for the Army) in order to enlist you must be off any type of meds of a psychiatric nature for 12 months under doctors supervision before you can apply for a waiver to enlist. Now where the regs have changed is that once in service you can now seek mental health care, and be prescribed medications and still stay in without it effecting your enlistment status.

I'm not going to take up any more time on this thread with army stuff, sorry guys. Please accept my apologies.

On Topic: Thanks for the link to the article MiMommy! So sad for this Mother and the rest of this family.

 

[MIMOMMY]

My main question's now seem to be:

#1 The investigation as to whether this was an ongoing incest issue......

and #2 Why didnt anyone HEAR this going on???

 

[Piglitsmum]

Thanks for your ongoing insight, Kat, and Meow for your backup...

I agree wholly with MiMommy, and wondered at the time, how the New Year's partying in a compact trailer home could be so loud as to drown out the sounds of arguing (which must have occurred between the siblings) and then violent stabbing?

 

[MIMOMMY]

Piglitsmum -

The way the story is currently running makes it seem as if the entire family was up pretty late partying - Reason I say this, the mom said that she hadnt been to check on her daughter because she ASSUMED she was just sleeping in from the late night of partying.

Which makes me wonder even more - WHEN did this happen? While they were all partying? Or after the all passed out/went to bed? The answer to this question would determine what OTHER questions I have.....

Also, If the cops come to my house checking on our well being --- Wouldnt you take the time to go thru the house and make sure everyone who you think is in the house is accounted for and ok? Or do you just say "yeah we're fine" and THEN after the police leave check on everyone? Makes me wonder why there was such a push to say "We're ok" and get rid of the cops?

 

[Kat]

Piglitsmum -

The way the story is currently running makes it seem as if the entire family was up pretty late partying - Reason I say this, the mom said that she hadnt been to check on her daughter because she ASSUMED she was just sleeping in from the late night of partying.

Which makes me wonder even more - WHEN did this happen? While they were all partying? Or after the all passed out/went to bed? The answer to this question would determine what OTHER questions I have.....

Also, If the cops come to my house checking on our well being --- Wouldnt you take the time to go thru the house and make sure everyone who you think is in the house is accounted for and ok? Or do you just say "yeah we're fine" and THEN after the police leave check on everyone? Makes me wonder why there was such a push to say "We're ok" and get rid of the cops?

Did the cops go to the house? Because that is strange if they did and left after asking if everyone was okay. I'm not faulting the cops, it's just that I always thought when they did a welfare check they would eyeball everyone that lived in that house before they left.

 

[MIMOMMY]

The police went to the home to do a well check -- after someone at a local Wendy's found the son's backpack (his military ID and several knives were inside the backpack) in a dumpster there - the Wendy's is about a 10 minute drive from the home.

Mom said everyone was fine - Police left - She went to check on the daughter and found her - made contact with the police and later that day a store owner called on a "suspicious" person who had been "hanging around" the store acting odd for awhile --- when the police arrived at the store - The brother was identified.

*Store owner is saying that he looked like he had been out in the weather for quite sometime (We've had some pretty nasty 50-60 mph winds with rain, ice, and snow in the last week or so) At first the owner felt sorry for him and actually fed him before he started to worry and called 911.

 

[MeoW333]

If it's just a welfare check, i think a lot of police may leave after going to the house and someone tells them it's okay. I wonder if the cops told the mother they had found his backpack and what her reaction was to that.

 

[Filly]

If it's just a welfare check, i think a lot of police may leave after going to the house and someone tells them it's okay. I wonder if the cops told the mother they had found his backpack and what her reaction was to that.

Exactly. Did the cops ask where the son is and why his personal property was thrown in the trash? I mean why did the cops say they were making a welfare check.

Rule of thumb they ask who is in the house. Ask if they can come in and check.

The article said the family had a party the night before. Lord only knows how these poor people will deal with this. Oh and he threw away his backpack and ID. Weather the murder weapon was in there or not he showed intent to hide something. Maybe nobody heard anything as they had all been up late at the party and slept in?

 

[MIMOMMY]

The murder weapon was NOT in the backpack but actually at the scene - also, are you telling me that if someone came in and was slicing a throat in your house that you dont think you would have heard SOMETHING? She didnt scream? There was no banging around? And if the police came to your home obviously concerned on the well-being of at least the son (since it was his info. in the backpack) you wouldnt go and check on at least him? and realize HE wasnt there?

If the police were to EVER come to my home to check do a well-check unexpectedly - you better believe Im checking on ALL of my family members who SHOULD be safe in my home!

 

[MeoW333]

Moments after the police left, the mother checked on the daughter and found her dead:

"Deputies spoke briefly with the victim's mother, Jenni Spencer, who indicated everything was OK, and then left, police said. Moments later, Spencer went to Jesika Kelsey's bedroom to speak with her and found her dead in a pool of blood."
http://www.livingstondaily.com/article/20090106/NEWS01/901060311/1002

If the family are big drinkers, it's very possible they drank themselves to sleep that night, sad but true. I don't think the mother had any idea whatsoever of what went on that night. She came to a rude awakening, her daughter dead, her son arrested for murder and he's obviously extremely mentally ill.

 

[Kat]

Moments after the police left, the mother checked on the daughter and found her dead:

"Deputies spoke briefly with the victim's mother, Jenni Spencer, who indicated everything was OK, and then left, police said. Moments later, Spencer went to Jesika Kelsey's bedroom to speak with her and found her dead in a pool of blood."
http://www.livingstondaily.com/article/20090106/NEWS01/901060311/1002

If the family are big drinkers, it's very possible they drank themselves to sleep that night, sad but true. I don't think the mother had any idea whatsoever of what went on that night. She came to a rude awakening, her daughter dead, her son arrested for murder and he's obviously extremely mentally ill.

I agree on your take about the Mom, MeoW333. Even if they aren't big drinkers throughout the year, many times people will drink heavily on New Years Eve.

Even if this young man is mentally ill, it's going to be hard to use an insanity defense if what is reported is true in that he appeared to be trying to evade police by hiding.

 

[MeoW333]

I agree on your take about the Mom, MeoW333. Even if they aren't big drinkers throughout the year, many times people will drink heavily on New Years Eve.

Even if this young man is mentally ill, it's going to be hard to use an insanity defense if what is reported is true in that he appeared to be trying to evade police by hiding.

The brother's actions aren't rational. He ditches the backpack that contains his military id and some steak knives (guessing he had a driver's license that wasn't ditched somewhere else) he failed to get rid of the murder weapon, wasn't really hiding as well as a rational person would. Maybe this was his way "out" of the military. There seems no logic in killing and raping one's sister, it's very twisted and disturbed.

http://www.mlive.com/fenton/index.ssf/2009/01/steven_kelsey_the_highland_tow.html

"Wood said Kelsey, 19, of Highland Township, arrived at his store around 6 p.m. Jan. 1 and was attempting to solicit rides to another destination from other party store customers. "He was someone who needed some help," Wood said. "The guy was very withdrawn. He looked like he'd just gotten beat up."



This young man showed a lot of warning signs!!!





"Kelsey would draw pictures on his tests of people being strangled and pierced by knives. He’d also write comments such as, “Who gives a sh--,” on a submitted paper."


http://www.examiner.com/x-1393-Detroit-Education-Examiner~y2009m1d6-Could-school-have-helped-teen-who-killed-and-raped-his-sister

"Kelsey, who didn’t appear to have friends, would respond to his teacher’s concerns with an emotionless stare."
"Huron Valley School District spokeswoman Janet Roberts claims that if concerns were brought up by the teacher, a threat assessment would have been done. Steps would have been taken, including a call to parents."


(the teacher wasn't named in the article)