MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

[Spellbound]

Do you seriously think the courts are going to give up the photos to anyone other than officers of the court??? If they did it would be considered Distributing Child for goodness sakes!! OR is it NOT child at all???

I thought I had read in a previous post by MiMommy, that the pictures were questionable. Trojan and I also had a phone call from Kim say's that she supposedly carried the copies of the pictures in question in her purse, so I don't know this for certain, but it could be possible that more then a few people have seen what ever Kim was carrying around with her in her purse. IMO

LE would NOT return questionable pictures. Whatever KT carried in her purse would have been on a camera/cell phone or physical copies. Which means either downloaded pics, or actual photos on "paper". I am starting to suspect from some of our posts whether KT is also involved in the child possession --- ? Carrying such pics, defending so vigorously ..... are these pics of their own children? If so, do they think they are "artistic", but LE considers them objectionable?

 

[pappa rob]

I don't know what LE has on him, I don't know what's going on in this case. Just because it's taken to trial, it doesn't mean the prosecution has anything on him. It could be that he's innocent and wants to get it over with. He could be guilty as h@ll. It's hard to say. They could be trying to force a confession or something else out of him with the charge.

 

[Trojan1966]

Do you seriously think the courts are going to give up the photos to anyone other than officers of the court??? If they did it would be considered Distributing Child for goodness sakes!! OR is it NOT child at all???

If KT had them, she didn't get them from the court!

 

[Spellbound]

There was an article in the Monroe News today. So far it is not online (unless you have a subscription to the paper)

According to the article:

--Accused of having 18 images of child on laptop (denied by his attorney)

--Remains free on bond

--Plea deal was turned down by Turnquist. According to attorney, Prosecutor's Office offered at least one deal, client will not plea down as he has done nothing wrong. "The images are not of underage children."

---arrest came on Feb. 25 when investigating murder of Julia. Ypsi police sought the laptop (because "they consider him a person of interest")

--Computer was turned over voluntarily by Turnquist, images were found on it.

--Felony charges were filed, search warrant issued for his home, several items recovered (including a computer). Per attorney, nothing illegal found on electronic items.

--Prosecutor has not allowed contact with his young daughter since charge filed.

--Trial Date: June 29


So, the images were apparently found on a laptop. I was under the impression KT said they were on her own computer, and she gave a PC (not laptop) that belonged to her. Correct? Or am I confused again? Does anyone know how many laptops were in this family, and who they belonged to?

 

[Trojan1966]

There was an article in the Monroe News today. So far it is not online (unless you have a subscription to the paper)

According to the article:

--Accused of having 18 images of child on laptop (denied by his attorney)

--Remains free on bond

--Plea deal was turned down by Turnquist. According to attorney, Prosecutor's Office offered at least one deal, client will not plea down as he has done nothing wrong. "The images are not of underage children."

---arrest came on Feb. 25 when investigating murder of Julia. Ypsi police sought the laptop (because "they consider him a person of interest")

--Computer was turned over voluntarily by Turnquist, images were found on it.

--Felony charges were filed, search warrant issued for his home, several items recovered (including a computer). Per attorney, nothing illegal found on electronic items.

--Prosecutor has not allowed contact with his young daughter since charge filed.

--Trial Date: June 29


So, the images were apparently found on a laptop. I was under the impression KT said they were on her own computer, and she gave a PC (not laptop) that belonged to her. Correct? Or am I confused again? Does anyone know how many laptops were in this family, and who they belonged to?

OK, from my visits and staying at their house, they never had a desktop PC. All were laptops. They had one in the living room which almost anyone could use. My understanding is that for Christmas in 2012, the twins bought Jim a new laptop computer. Then the laptop that was seized during their last search warrant event seems to be a "newer" computer, almost as if it was bought to replace the one that was seized or given up (depending on the story) in December 2014. I'm not the only one wondering where is the laptop the twins bought JT for that Christmas 2012. Maybe I've been misinformed but I believe it is still "missing".

 

[rosesfromangels]

I've started to work on/develop yet another theory, and quite a wild card. Nonetheless, as I said upthread, I am now looking at different possibilities beyond those we have already discussed.

I need some additional data input, specific to Jennifer & Kassie. It is my understanding that it is really these two girls that connected the families. Is this correct? How did this originally happen? What was the connection point for Jennifer & Kassie originally. And since, what have been there mutual activities?

 

[psyquestor]

Is it possible Julia had found out about the child ?
And, I am so sorry to say this because it's upsetting, but the youngest daughter is at an age that is interesting to pedophiles. I pray there is no such connection.

Just catching up on this thread, apologies if this has been mentioned as a theory.

Many girls who do not stand up to an incestuous pedophile on their own accusations, will stand up if they see a younger sibling suffering abuse. I do not have a citation for this information but intuit it from what little I know of such abuse. I do feel it is possible that JT abused Julia and suspected that he had turned his sites on the younger sister. I believe the evidence of child is of the younger daughter and / or Julia. I think JT could have been scared that Julia would add strength to any abuse allegations that the younger daughter could bring.

This is just my personal theory and not substantiated by MSM etc. It is an opinion.

Further, it is possible that CB's murder is similarly tied by / abuse / pedophilia. This opinion comes by the coincidence of the "new evidence" being found around the same time that CB's costume was located and sent away for DNA analysis.

Again, sorry I'm late to the thread - somehow my old subscription never updated and showed this new thread.

 

[Spellbound]

Glad to have you back, psyquestor. Sadly, I think you may be heading in the right direction if my gut is any help. As a child of sexual inappropriate actions by a trusted adult, I suppose I should consider myself lucky we did not have the Internet to drag the inner turmoils all over the public/world.

 

[MIMOMMY]

Whether or not I am attached to the individual's or not - I can sanely suggest this for discussion - IF Julia was being molested, or IF JT had been "caught" with child as some theorize, and IF Julia confronted him on it and this was the reason for her senseless death.....

Do we REALLY believe that she would have spent so much money purchasing him a laptop so that he could further these supposed crimes?

 

[dmc43613]

Whether or not I am attached to the individual's or not - I can sanely suggest this for discussion - IF Julia was being molested, or IF JT had been "caught" with child as some theorize, and IF Julia confronted him on it and this was the reason for her senseless death.....

Do we REALLY believe that she would have spent so much money purchasing him a laptop so that he could further these supposed crimes?

Very good and valid points MiMommy, just to play devils advocate (my friends tell me I'm good at that )

The gifted laptop could have been purchased so the "shared" family laptop didn't expose grafic/adult material or shielded others in the family from something the older girls witnessed and felt inappropriate?

Perhaps enabling them to "catch" inappropriate activity? Distancing their Mother and sibling from inappropriate Internet activities?

Just throwing additional scenarios out there. I am honestly not trying to redirect suspicion towards JT, just a helping of food for thought.

I personally have not felt I there's been enough solid information for me to form an opinion beyond the domineering and controlling behavior I've taken away from verified user information.

 

[4ist]

LE would NOT return questionable pictures. Whatever KT carried in her purse would have been on a camera/cell phone or physical copies. Which means either downloaded pics, or actual photos on "paper". I am starting to suspect from some of our posts whether KT is also involved in the child possession --- ? Carrying such pics, defending so vigorously ..... are these pics of their own children? If so, do they think they are "artistic", but LE considers them objectionable?

Well, I can only say that KIM told us that she has seen the pictures in question, and that she carried copies of them in her purse. Don't know how or where she got them from, perhaps MiMommy knows. I have not seen the pictures in question?

 

[Mountaingazer]

Very good and valid points MiMommy, just to play devils advocate (my friends tell me I'm good at that )

The gifted laptop could have been purchased so the "shared" family laptop didn't expose grafic/adult material or shielded others in the family from something the older girls witnessed and felt inappropriate?

Perhaps enabling them to "catch" inappropriate activity? Distancing their Mother and sibling from inappropriate Internet activities?

Just throwing additional scenarios out there. I am honestly not trying to redirect suspicion towards JT, just a helping of food for thought.

I personally have not felt I there's been enough solid information for me to form an opinion beyond the domineering and controlling behavior I've taken away from verified user information.

Or perhaps a program had been installed on the computer so that activity on it could be viewed remotely.

I know the laptop was purchased via lawaway, had it already been paid in full? Who was holding onto it until Christmas, Julia or Jennifer?

 

[4ist]

Quote Originally Posted by DazednConfuzed09
Do you seriously think the courts are going to give up the photos to anyone other than officers of the court??? If they did it would be considered Distributing Child for goodness sakes!! OR is it NOT child at all???

I have NO idea how KIM came about the photos that she told us that she carried around in her purse for a couple of weeks, you shall have to ask Kim or MiMommy how she came about seeing them and getting them and why in the world she would carry them around with her I have NO clue. But I have prove that is what she told us!

If KT is carrying something around to basically show people that her husband is not guilty, she apparently doesn't think they are underage people in the photos. However, they might very well be, unbeknownst to KT. My point, upthread, was that it just doesn't seem like a good idea to risk it. I can understand her motivation in doing this, but doesn't sound like a good idea to me. At all. Laypersons opinion only!

I agree with you Roses, not a good idea at all!

And speaking of motivations, I keep reminding myself that KT not only lost a daughter, but is now faced with the stress of these allegations against her husband. I can't even begin to understand the stress she must be under! Her world has been falling apart, and I can see why she is trying to hold it together, as she is. That said, I hope she is remembering to take care of herself first, because no one could hold up under this level of strain without a lot of help and support. What mother and wife would ever want to wake up to this type of nightmare?

Very stressful situation for sure. Very sad state of affairs. We all want Justice for Julia!!!

 

[dmc43613]

Or perhaps a program had been installed on the computer so that activity on it could be viewed remotely.

I know the laptop was purchased via lawaway, had it already been paid in full? Who was holding onto it until Christmas, Julia or Jennifer?

I thought I had read that Julia had it, and it was one of the items of value that wasn't taken, suggesting it wasn't a robbery gone bad.

 

[psyquestor]

Several red flags exist that lead me to the opinion that there was child sexual abuse occurring in the home. As this is an opinion, I don't really have to defend it, do I?

That having been said, here is my attempt to answer:

It would not be unusual for a child who was abused to do nice things for the person who abused them. Particularly one who was interested in keeping peace with the rest of the family. I know someone who has a cordial relationship with their rapist all for the sake of maintaining contact with the rest of their family. So, it can and does happen with incest. It's not the same as when a complete stranger rapes you; you don't get to move on in the same way. Incest is also different in that sometimes it is never discussed due to the deep shame associated with such.

All my own opinion, fwiw.

 

[psyquestor]

While attempting to find a citation to back up my opinion, I ran across the following quote:

It was hard to know just what aspect of these experiences was most traumatic: her father’s viciousness, her mother’s indifference, or the unmitigated physical violence, itself. The emotional consequences affected every aspect of her self-esteem and social competence, and plainly was an important factor in her chronic anxiety and depression. She trusted no one

Here is a link for that quote: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...1/different-degrees-incest-andor-sexual-abuse

The bold is added by me. This is one of my red flags from Julia. Trust no one.

Just to clarify also that this would not be incest per se, as JT shares no DNA with Julia. However it would be among family members, so this is how I classified it - but again, strictly speaking, it isn't incest. Just clearing that up.

MOO

---- added info ----

Defining incest is further complicated by the fact that the term is often used in connection with a set of values and assumptions associated with a classic 2-parent nuclear family. In fact, in a society with a high incidence of divorce, blended families are not uncommon. Those who occupy the most crucial and important roles in a child’s life and who undertake the roles traditionally filled by blood relatives may not have a genetic relationship to a child, although they are the most consistent sources of that child’s nurture and protection. - See more at: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sexual-offenses/ramifications-incest#sthash.e7X3bouG.dpuf

 

[Spellbound]

Adding to your comments, psyquestor, when a family member has been sexually abused or suspects something similar in a family member, they are often made to feel they caused the behavior. Hushing up a situation is definitely a common occurrence. If we don't talk about, it will go away, or we can pretend it never happened.

IF JT has threatened to out KT's involvement with the child (or other activity) she may feel afraid to speak out. There could be some form of personal blackmail along this line. Shame and embarrassment tend to make some people lie to keep their "respect".

JMO

 

[psyquestor]

On a roll here...sorry for multiple posts in a row.

Another quote:

The statistics on incest are extremely difficult to pinpoint because most cases of incest are never reported due to the intense level of shame associated with this type of sexual abuse. Aside from the misdirected shame that victims of incest often feel, there is increased pressure to keep it a secret because of fear of disrupting the family dynamic or experiencing blame or anger from other family members. However, it’s believed that the most common form of incest happens between older male relatives and younger females.

Bold added by me. Survivors do not wish to disrupt the family dynamic. My opinion is that there was a disruption of the family dynamic, one big enough that caused Julia to move out of the home and go live with adults she could trust. MOO again and as always my viewpoint of this as an outsider who does not know any of the people involved personally.

A link for this quote:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/somatic-psychology/201302/trauma-incest

 

[Trojan1966]

I have something I'd like to bring up concerning the laptop computers. Has anyone considered that the laptop the twins bought for JT was to help him run his business? Having his own would allow him to make business entries away from home. I know that I purchased my laptop to use at work and primarily if I had to travel to do certain things. It was handy and a great purchase for me. This being said, my biggest question is : Where is that laptop today? I have been led to believe that the two LE currently have are the original laptop that was in the home (oldest one) and the newer one seems to have been purchased to replace the one removed by LE from the home in December 2014. So, where is the one the twins bought for JT near Christmas time in 2012? Can anyone enlighten us on that?

 

[Sassyspecs]

Whether or not I am attached to the individual's or not - I can sanely suggest this for discussion - IF Julia was being molested, or IF JT had been "caught" with child as some theorize, and IF Julia confronted him on it and this was the reason for her senseless death.....

Do we REALLY believe that she would have spent so much money purchasing him a laptop so that he could further these supposed crimes?

Excellent points MIMOMMY. I believe I read on this thread that the laptop was purchased using layaway (I'm not 100% sure about that). If this is the case, IMO the possibility still exists that the girls put the laptop on layaway BEFORE Julia saw something she wasn't supposed to see.