MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[psyquestor]

FWIW My alarm will continue to sound until I shut it down. This holds true for my iPhone as well.

As a former hotel manager, I can tell you how annoying it is when one of the alarms in a room does not get reset at the end of someone's stay. Many clock radios (at least back then) would continue to sound until housekeeping came around to shut them off.

JMOO

 

[black_squirrel]

FWIW My alarm will continue to sound until I shut it down. This holds true for my iPhone as well.

As a former hotel manager, I can tell you how annoying it is when one of the alarms in a room does not get reset at the end of someone's stay. Many clock radios (at least back then) would continue to sound until housekeeping came around to shut them off.

JMOO

Suppose it depends on the clock. But if it kept making sound, who turned off the alarm? Was it still making sound when they did the wellness check? There was no
mention of that in the affidavit, but perhaps it did. Did police check for which time the alarm was set? This would have been easy to check but I am not sure if police did this.
Where is the alarm now? Does police have it, or is it in storage or lost/thrown away? If we could determine the make and model of the alarm, we could determine if this
alarm would stop making sound after a certain amount of time.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I did my own FOIA requests and received it in the mail yesterday. It answers some of the questions I have. There are
various statements regarding JT's alibi. Here are some relevant facts:

Jennifer stated that on 12/9 they her parents and her sister went to bed at 10:30pm, and that JT left for work at 7:30 on Monday morning
and she was certain that JT picked up the employee ADG on his way to work.

Kim stated that she and her husband went to bed around 10pm, and that JT left for work at 7:15am and probably picked up a co-worker ADG.

Grandma Rose stated that Julia was scheduled to work with JT on Monday Morning.

AG, Julias roommate, briefly entered the apartment on her way to school. The alarm in Julia's room was going off. This was around 7:45-8am.

JC (described as Julia's maternal aunt - is she a daughter of Rose from a different marriage/relationship?) said that Julia visited her the week prior to her death.
(I presume they mean around December 1). According to her, Julia was scheduled to work on 12/10 at 6am.

If Jennifer and Kim are speaking the truth, then JT has a clear alibi. An important question is whether Julia was scheduled to work for JT on 12/10 or not.
She was also scheduled to work at Walmart and intended to go to a party that evening. That sure would have been a busy day, but possible.
However, I would imagine that Julia would have set the alarm around 5am or so. But it was going off around 7:45. Usually, alarm clocks don't beep for more than an hour
or so. So I am questioning if she really could have been scheduled to work at 6am.

Has police talked to ADG? Did she confirm the statements of Jennifer and Kim?

Thank You Black_Squirrel for this information!

If everyone's statement is correct, I would wonder about the time: Sunday night at 11:30pm to 6:00am Monday morning. I do wonder about the time after Julia returning home from work: after 5:00 pm Sunday night to 10:30 pm Sunday night. But there were two test messages: one to a male family friend around 8:30 pm: 'Happy Birthday' and one to Jennifer at 10:00 or 10:30 pm: 'Watching Mean Girls.' That is if Julia sent the text herself.

Also, there was no forced entry, which rules out someone entering the apartment without a key. And could someone know Julia was alone.

There was no text or phone record of anyone calling to say they were stopping by.

Also, could Julia have had trouble sleeping Sunday night and have over slept in the AM, missing the cleaning appointment so early? Could someone who is very tired sleep through an alarm?

 

[caspermi]

JC (described as Julia's maternal aunt - is she a daughter of Rose from a different marriage/relationship?) said that Julia visited her the week prior to her death. (I presume they mean around December 1). According to her, Julia was scheduled to work on 12/10 at 6am.

Maybe this conversation took place but I find it a rather odd conversation to have with the aunt. Talking about a detailed work schedule (12/10, 6am) at least 7-10 days before the scheduled date.

 

[Spellbound]

Maybe this conversation took place but I find it a rather odd conversation to have with the aunt. Talking about a detailed work schedule (12/10, 6am) at least 7-10 days before the scheduled date.

I didn't find it odd that she would tell an aunt she was close to (if she was) that she would be working extra to get money. Perhaps she just gave a description to the aunt of what her week was going to be like. Or maybe the aunt asked if she would be free on Monday to go to lunch or some other activity on that day, and Julia filled her in. The "week before her death" could have been the previous seven days or less.

 

[black_squirrel]

I did my own FOIA requests and received it in the mail yesterday. It answers some of the questions I have. There are
various statements regarding JT's alibi. Here are some relevant facts:

Jennifer stated that on 12/9 they her parents and her sister went to bed at 10:30pm, and that JT left for work at 7:30 on Monday morning
and she was certain that JT picked up the employee ADG on his way to work.

Kim stated that she and her husband went to bed around 10pm, and that JT left for work at 7:15am and probably picked up a co-worker ADG.

Grandma Rose stated that Julia was scheduled to work with JT on Monday Morning.

AG, Julias roommate, briefly entered the apartment on her way to school. The alarm in Julia's room was going off. This was around 7:45-8am.

JC (described as Julia's maternal aunt - is she a daughter of Rose from a different marriage/relationship?) said that Julia visited her the week prior to her death.
(I presume they mean around December 1). According to her, Julia was scheduled to work on 12/10 at 6am.

If Jennifer and Kim are speaking the truth, then JT has a clear alibi. An important question is whether Julia was scheduled to work for JT on 12/10 or not.
She was also scheduled to work at Walmart and intended to go to a party that evening. That sure would have been a busy day, but possible.
However, I would imagine that Julia would have set the alarm around 5am or so. But it was going off around 7:45. Usually, alarm clocks don't beep for more than an hour
or so. So I am questioning if she really could have been scheduled to work at 6am.

Has police talked to ADG? Did she confirm the statements of Jennifer and Kim?

Correction: It was grandma Rose who said that Julia was scheduled to work at 6am on Monday. Aunt JC said that Julia was scheduled to work early Monday morning.

 

[Trojan1966]

I did my own FOIA requests and received it in the mail yesterday. It answers some of the questions I have. There are
various statements regarding JT's alibi. Here are some relevant facts:

Jennifer stated that on 12/9 they her parents and her sister went to bed at 10:30pm, and that JT left for work at 7:30 on Monday morning
and she was certain that JT picked up the employee ADG on his way to work.

Kim stated that she and her husband went to bed around 10pm, and that JT left for work at 7:15am and probably picked up a co-worker ADG.

Grandma Rose stated that Julia was scheduled to work with JT on Monday Morning.

AG, Julias roommate, briefly entered the apartment on her way to school. The alarm in Julia's room was going off. This was around 7:45-8am.

JC (described as Julia's maternal aunt - is she a daughter of Rose from a different marriage/relationship?) said that Julia visited her the week prior to her death.
(I presume they mean around December 1). According to her, Julia was scheduled to work on 12/10 at 6am.

If Jennifer and Kim are speaking the truth, then JT has a clear alibi. An important question is whether Julia was scheduled to work for JT on 12/10 or not.
She was also scheduled to work at Walmart and intended to go to a party that evening. That sure would have been a busy day, but possible.
However, I would imagine that Julia would have set the alarm around 5am or so. But it was going off around 7:45. Usually, alarm clocks don't beep for more than an hour
or so. So I am questioning if she really could have been scheduled to work at 6am.

Has police talked to ADG? Did she confirm the statements of Jennifer and Kim?

My understanding was that Julia had to work for JT about 10AM but she may have had a class first thing, then planned on going to the cleaning job.
The Walmart employee's Christmas Party was on Monday evening and Julia was to pick up some other people to give them a ride to the party but she never showed up!
JC is Rose's sister, thus Julia's great aunt.
If Kim & Jennifer are speaking the truth, why won't they go to LE and sign formal statements?
Was ADG interviewed? I do not know and LE has not told me.

 

[Spellbound]

Thanks for clarifying the "maternal aunt" statement, Trojan.

As far as you know, Julia was not supposed to work at Walmart on Monday? Sorry for being confused once again.

 

[georgiasblu]

My understanding was that Julia had to work for JT about 10AM but she may have had a class first thing, then planned on going to the cleaning job.
The Walmart employee's Christmas Party was on Monday evening and Julia was to pick up some other people to give them a ride to the party but she never showed up!
JC is Rose's sister, thus Julia's great aunt.
If Kim & Jennifer are speaking the truth, why won't they go to LE and sign formal statements?
Was ADG interviewed? I do not know and LE has not told me.

Trojan, neither K or J will give a formal statement regarding JT's alibi?

 

[Trojan1966]

Trojan, neither K or J will give a formal statement regarding JT's alibi?

As of today, as far as I know, they have not given formal statements about anything, especially around the time of the murder. The only statements they have made was to the press and JT's lawyer also said something to the press. That's it as far as I know. Formal statements concerning the days around Julia's murder would be very helpful to LE. Time will tell.........................

 

[Trojan1966]

Thanks for clarifying the "maternal aunt" statement, Trojan.

As far as you know, Julia was not supposed to work at Walmart on Monday? Sorry for being confused once again.

I'm not sure about Julia's working Monday at Walmarts. I do know their employee party was that night.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

As of today, as far as I know, they have not given formal statements about anything, especially around the time of the murder. The only statements they have made was to the press and JT's lawyer also said something to the press. That's it as far as I know. Formal statements concerning the days around Julia's murder would be very helpful to LE. Time will tell.........................

Wow..KT or JN haven't given formal statements either? Unbelievable! So, it sounds like they have talked with YPD verbally, giving JT an alibi for Sunday night, but not in a formal written statement. It would seem, without a formal written statement, JT doesn't have a solid alibi.

To my surprise, Monroe to Ypsi., by taking I-275 to I-94 to U-23 is a 44 minute ride. So let's say 1 hour 1 way total travel time with side streets. Speculating, I still think it was possible for JT to travel to Ypsi., be there for 1 hour or so, and travel back home without other family members knowing. I know KT and JN said JT went to bed at 10:30pm, but who is to say he didn't sleep 2 hours, wake up at 1:30 pm, sneak out of the house and return by 4:30 am or 5:00 am, before anyone's alarm went off?

That being said, wouldn't Julia find it odd for JT to be knocking at her door at 2:30 am on a Sunday night? Or, did he already have a key, maybe from KT or JN, who may had been given a spare in case of an emergency. True, there was a key taken from Julia's apartment. It makes sense to me that JT could have a key and take a chance of traveling to Julia's apartment that night because he could've easy known through conversation with other family members that Julia was alone at the apartment Sunday night. Since she was there by herself she may have left her bedroom door unlocked. Also, JT could have taken keys from Julia's apartment to make it look like someone else, maybe a boyfriend, was let in by Julia earlier in the evening and took the keys to lock-up on the way out, to throw LE off.

Some may say a boyfriend could have stopped by, but who? And wouldn't they call or text before arrival? I would think YPD would have some type of record of this from a cell phone company. I would also wonder about the roommates, but it seems they've been fully cleared by YPD. I know about the date guy from Saturday night, could he have stopped by Sunday night? But once again, he has been fully cleared by YPD.

 

[FindHG]

Thank You Black_Squirrel for this information!

If everyone's statement is correct, I would wonder about the time: Sunday night at 11:30pm to 6:00am Monday morning. I do wonder about the time after Julia returning home from work: after 5:00 pm Sunday night to 10:30 pm Sunday night. But there were two test messages: one to a male family friend around 8:30 pm: 'Happy Birthday' and one to Jennifer at 10:00 or 10:30 pm: 'Watching Mean Girls.' That is if Julia sent the text herself.

Also, there was no forced entry, which rules out someone entering the apartment without a key. And could someone know Julia was alone.

There was no text or phone record of anyone calling to say they were stopping by.

Also, could Julia have had trouble sleeping Sunday night and have over slept in the AM, missing the cleaning appointment so early? Could someone who is very tired sleep through an alarm?

It may have all happened before 10 pm, it seems possible, but the texts and water temp may have been used to obfuscate the time of death. LE may have some idea when that phone was submerged that was found in the tub beneath Julia.

As pointed out before, the last time somebody actually saw or heard her voice was much earlier than the texts.

The part I can't wrap my head around still is that :

- the contact between Julia and the household seemed to have been involved and regular prior to Sunday afternoon,

but then

- their complete lack of any significant contact to raise an alarm with her mom, sisters or stepdad, who may have been expecting her at work too, until Tuesday night, after a roommate notices.

Not knowing what really happened or what would explain their lack of contact or concern, it could seem like the lack of contact may have been deliberate, or the result of some underlying tension in the household with the way things may have been left with Julia. Maybe things were more tense than is known, and Julia's post about 'trust no one' was the result of some shifting loyalty or dynamic with the household?

Been thinking about the rug, and I do think there is a chance, because of Turnquist's legal team's strategic approach to his defense, it could be a ruse of sorts bringing it up. The rug could have been immaterial as a piece of evidence and nothing more than a way for the defense to bring any solid evidence into question by having a another way to ruse LE competence as with the previous mistrial and the search warrant. This approach may backfire too, who knows?

 

[black_squirrel]

The part I can't wrap my head around still is that :

- the contact between Julia and the household seemed to have been involved and regular prior to Sunday afternoon,

but then

- their complete lack of any significant contact to raise an alarm with her mom, sisters or stepdad, who may have been expecting her at work too, until Tuesday night, after a roommate notices.

Which household do you mean? The Turnquist household (JT, Kim, Jenn, and youngest daughter),
or the grandma Rose household (Rose, Julia's aunt)? Julia lived with grandma Rose.
It is understandable that there was more contact between Julia and the households while she was in Monroe. Then she went back to Ypsilanti and most communication was by phone. I believe people from the Turnquist household did try to reach Julia by phone on Monday and/or Tuesday. I don't know if anyone from the grandma Rose household
tried to reach her.

Been thinking about the rug, and I do think there is a chance, because of Turnquist's legal team's strategic approach to his defense, it could be a ruse of sorts bringing it up. The rug could have been immaterial as a piece of evidence and nothing more than a way for the defense to bring any solid evidence into question by having a another way to ruse LE competence as with the previous mistrial and the search warrant. This approach may backfire too, who knows?

It is detective Coppock who brings up the rug in the affidavit. She admits that it had not been collected, admitting
some incompetence on the part of Ypsilanti police IMO. I believe it was detective Peto who was responsible for the collection of the evidence.

 

[black_squirrel]

Wow..KT or JN haven't given formal statements either? Unbelievable! So, it sounds like they have talked with YPD verbally, giving JT an alibi for Sunday night, but not in a formal written statement. It would seem, without a formal written statement, JT doesn't have a solid alibi.

According to the affidavit, Kim was interviewed at the Michigan State Police Monroe post, by two detectives.
This is where she gives an alibi for JT. Kim and Jennifer also spoke to FBI agent Schmittlein at the Ypsi police department later. These interviews seems pretty formal to me and were probably taped IMO.
But I don't know if they formally signed any statements.

I know KT and JN said JT went to bed at 10:30pm, but who is to say he didn't sleep 2 hours, wake up at 1:30 pm, sneak out of the house and return by 4:30 am or 5:00 am, before anyone's alarm went off?

I suppose he could have. But it seems like a huge risk to take, to sneak out, kill someone, come back and hope that nobody will have noticed your absence.

That being said, wouldn't Julia find it odd for JT to be knocking at her door at 2:30 am on a Sunday night?

She surely would find it odd.

Or, did he already have a key, maybe from KT or JN, who may had been given a spare in case of an emergency. True, there was a key taken from Julia's apartment. It makes sense to me that JT could have a key and take a chance of traveling to Julia's apartment that night because he could've easy known through conversation with other family members that Julia was alone at the apartment Sunday night. Since she was there by herself she may have left her bedroom door unlocked. Also, JT could have taken keys from Julia's apartment to make it look like someone else, maybe a boyfriend, was let in by Julia earlier in the evening and took the keys to lock-up on the way out, to throw LE off.

It is possible that JT had a key. He moved Julia's furniture into the apartment. It is also possible that Julia kept a key in the grandma Rose's place, where she would stay in weekends. But there doesn't seem to be a good reason why her family would need a key, because I don't see any reason why they would need to visit her apartment in her absence.
It is possible though that the perp had a key. But they took Julia's key anyway so that police wouldn't immediately suspect people who have a key.

Some may say a boyfriend could have stopped by, but who? And wouldn't they call or text before arrival? I would think YPD would have some type of record of this from a cell phone company.

This is why I think she may have met the perp earlier that day. Perhaps at work.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

It may have all happened before 10 pm, it seems possible, but the texts and water temp may have been used to obfuscate the time of death. LE may have some idea when that phone was submerged that was found in the tub beneath Julia.

As pointed out before, the last time somebody actually saw or heard her voice was much earlier than the texts.

The part I can't wrap my head around still is that :

- the contact between Julia and the household seemed to have been involved and regular prior to Sunday afternoon,

but then

- their complete lack of any significant contact to raise an alarm with her mom, sisters or stepdad, who may have been expecting her at work too, until Tuesday night, after a roommate notices.

Not knowing what really happened or what would explain their lack of contact or concern, it could seem like the lack of contact may have been deliberate, or the result of some underlying tension in the household with the way things may have been left with Julia. Maybe things were more tense than is known, and Julia's post about 'trust no one' was the result of some shifting loyalty or dynamic with the household?

Been thinking about the rug, and I do think there is a chance, because of Turnquist's legal team's strategic approach to his defense, it could be a ruse of sorts bringing it up. The rug could have been immaterial as a piece of evidence and nothing more than a way for the defense to bring any solid evidence into question by having a another way to ruse LE competence as with the previous mistrial and the search warrant. This approach may backfire too, who knows?

Hoping LE does know when the cell phone was submerged in water. Hoping they were able to place in rice too and reactive.

If the texts were sent by someone else it would have to been someone who knew Julia and the family closely, or, someone who had been in contact with a close family member to know what to say. The text were short: Happy Birthday and Watching Mean Girls. I do wonder if the texts were answered back.

Yes, JT must have known Julia was a no show for the cleaning job Monday AM and KT got a call from a friend, out of concern, when Julia missed the Walmart Christmas party. And now we find, Julia had promised to give others a ride to the Walmart Christmas party as well. If the roommate hadn't called security, how much longer would the Turnquist household have waited before checking in on Julia? It seems odd the roommates are the ones to contact security. Did the Turnquist household contact Julia's Grandmother to see if she have heard from Julia on Monday or Tuesday?

 

[black_squirrel]

Hoping LE does know when the cell phone was submerged in water. Hoping they were able to place in rice too and reactive.

I wonder if that trick still works when the phone has been submerged for 2 days.

If the texts were sent by someone else it would have to been someone who knew Julia and the family closely, or, someone who had been in contact with a close family member to know what to say. The text were short: Happy Birthday and Watching Mean Girls. I do wonder if the texts were answered back.

There was also a text to Julia's roommate AG around 10:30pm according to the affidavit.

Yes, JT must have known Julia was a no show for the cleaning job Monday AM and KT got a call from a friend, out of concern, when Julia missed the Walmart Christmas party. And now we find, Julia had promised to give others a ride to the Walmart Christmas party as well. If the roommate hadn't called security, how much longer would the Turnquist household have waited before checking in on Julia? It seems odd the roommates are the ones to contact security. Did the Turnquist household contact Julia's Grandmother to see if she have heard from Julia on Monday or Tuesday?

I am not yet completely convinced that Julia was scheduled to work with JT and/or at Walmart that day.
Where did you read/hear about Julia picking up people for the party and the call to KT?

 

[georgiasblu]

I wonder if that trick still works when the phone has been submerged for 2 days.

There was also a text to Julia's roommate AG around 10:30pm according to the affidavit.

I am not yet completely convinced that Julia was scheduled to work with JT and/or at Walmart that day.
Where did you read/hear about Julia picking up people for the party and the call to KT?

Trojan told us she was to pick up coworkers for work party. Page before this one. I believe I read about kim receiving a phone call from a friend of Julias in one if the stories written after the FOIA.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

My understanding was that Julia had to work for JT about 10AM but she may have had a class first thing, then planned on going to the cleaning job.
The Walmart employee's Christmas Party was on Monday evening and Julia was to pick up some other people to give them a ride to the party but she never showed up!
JC is Rose's sister, thus Julia's great aunt.
If Kim & Jennifer are speaking the truth, why won't they go to LE and sign formal statements?
Was ADG interviewed? I do not know and LE has not told me.

black_squirrell

Trojan1966 mentions in the above quote about Julia 'working for JT about 10AM' and Julia 'was to pick up some other people to give them a ride' to the Walmart Christmas party.

Yes, I remember someone also mentioning a text message to the roommate AG. But wasn't there something odd about that text? I do not know all of the details about it. Do you know what the text said? Does it say in the affidavit?

 

[Trojan1966]

Information for Everyone: The affidavit is not all the information LE has concerning Julia's murder case. I believe there are over 40 pages in the original document. LE extracted the information for the court to prove that there was enough justification for the search warrant for the computers. JT's lawyer wanted to say that the original search warrant was not a "legal" search, that way anything found on the computer would not be admitted in court as evidence. The other information (according to LE) that they have, if released, could compromise their murder investigation. Realizing the two cases are in different counties and court districts, Ypsi PD consulted with the DA in Washtenaw county (jurisdiction of the future murder case) to "clear" exactly what they could release without compromising their murder investigation. I know it sounds confusing but that's just the way it is. Monroe county has jurisdiction in the child case because JT lives in Monroe county and his residence is where the computer resided. I hope this helps clarify what is happening. Just remember that LE did not completely "show their hand", but just enough to satisfy the requirement for a legal search which is the way the Judge in Monroe county ruled on the 11th of September. Now that JT's lawyer got exactly what he asked for, I personally don't believe he wants the affidavit read or seen by the jury but it looks like it will be allowed. In some respects, this move by JT's lawyer may have backfired! Also, I've heard people say that all of this was a move by JT's lawyer to try to see exactly what LE has for possible evidence against JT in the future. I know this seems all confusing but so is our entire legal system. I hope all that I have said here helps everyone understand exactly what is happening. The child case (in Monroe county) begins tomorrow and I'm sure whatever happens will be well publicized in the news media.