MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[Spellbound]

We don't know that some of the information included may have come from JT or been confirmed by him or KT. also, if several people brought up a similar bit of information, it only makes sense that it would get delved into further. Speaking to family, friends, the immediate family to get to the bottom of these questions makes perfect sense. If JT refuses to continue talking with LE it is hard not to assume he is hiding something. If it was my daughter, they could speak to me every day for many years and I would never object. Anything is worth going over and over if it may eventually help solve a case. Unfortunately, there are not enough DOCUMENTED reports from JT to disprove or prove anything related to him.

The rug .... if it was not taken by LE investigation (and I don't know if perhaps they do have it) and was left in the apartment, then KT and other friends or family moved all her things to storage, it goes to logic to think the rug would be in the storage center. If anyone removed or tossed it, logic seems that they would know that. It is possible someone is lying, possible the rug is or will be found somewhere else, or even could have been thrown out because it was too dirty to bother cleaning. Or the rug could mean absolutely nothing. Could there have been tiny specs of blood or other DNA on it? Same with the pillow case. Maybe Julia did not have matching pillow cases, but a hodgepodge. No way to know at this point.

All is Just My Opinion or random thinking. Keep in mind, cases can be won on circumstantial evidence in the absence of physical evidence. JT has not been charged in connection with her death, may not have been physically present, but still know things that could help --- such as co-workers or friends or others who could be involved, why he was not concerned when she did not show up to do the cleaning job, etc.

Another thought I had, could the perp have been looking for a specific item to take as a "souvenir"? Something small that could easily be hidden away for only him/her to know about? Perhaps that is where the missing keys are, being kept for their connection to Julia, not to re-enter the apartment.

 

[Mountaingazer]

You've already admitted to known lies in the documents, why shouldn't the document be questioned for further lies???? I can't help but wonder how much of this affidavit was embellished???!

Well there is a huge difference to people lying on JT'S behalf in their statements and LE lying or "embellishing" an affadavit.

Is this what it's come to? First a refusal to believe JT could be guilty until more details were released. Then some of those details are released and it has to be because of crooked cops, embellishing and fudging the truth, not because JT is highly suspicious.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Spellbound]

You've already admitted to known lies in the documents, why shouldn't the document be questioned for further lies???? I can't help but wonder how much of this affidavit was embellished???!

Errors are not necessarily lies. Nothing you have mentioned can be considered a lie (as far as I can tell) at this point. There are plenty more documents that LE is in possession of that may have corrected or explained the errors and we are not privileged to them at this point.

Dazed, I applaud your support, even if we seem to be on opposite sides with most of this. However, I am open to (and would welcome) finding out JT had no involvement, but you seem set on only his side being the truth. Do I read you wrong?

 

[Spellbound]

The fact people have questioned what Kim did with the rug just boggles my mind! Obviously LE was in total control of the scene until they deemed they were finished. Who's fault is it the rug is not in evidence?!?!

Multiple signatures? Possibly because the "proof" was a tad bit sketchy?

Multiple signatures where, in the warrant? Could be different investigators had a part and needed to sign, and could be a superior needed to co-sign. There are likely reasons for more than one signature on a warrant.

 

[Spellbound]

Are their any statements from a Confidential Informant?

Huh? Seems a "confidential informant" is not needed, but if there were, wouldn't the name at least be redacted?

 

[MIMOMMY]

I am unaware of again why you personally attack when I merely asked questions in regards to the document and the crime scene.

I did not claim to be a legal expert at any time nor did I claim to be at the crime scene.

 

[MIMOMMY]

Where did you get information as to who actually collected the evidence? I don't know who did but there were quite a few people involved with the crime scene. Were you there?
As far as multiple magistrate signatures......... I did not know you were a legal expert too! Each document is a separate document, so I don't know if the same magistrate must sign all of them (plus they were on different dates). I believe that all that is required is that a magistrate must sign them.
Why is the whole focus on JT and this when the real focus should be on finding Julia's murder. If that means complete cooperation from the entire family, then that's what should be happening.
If you have read the documents, please comment on what JT's family members stated in their interviews. Were they lying too?

I will not comment on what anyone said in their statements as I do not have proof i.e., the ability to post the affidavit for the same reason you are not

 

[georgiasblu]

What factual and tangible proof is there to back up claims for his past? Are there documented court records, are there documented police records or how about ANY documented proof other than straight up hearsay? Hearsay will have to be substantiated at some point. Can’t help but wonder if this is why media hasn’t elaborated on the so-called “proof” in this document….

Here's another thought... if the DNA does not clear JT, then it really doesn't clear anyone who has given DNA now does it??? It either matches or it doesn't....there is no middle ground here. How many people have actually been asked for a sample?

How do you know for sure that JT has not cooperated? Because YPSI says he didn't?!
YPSI lied under oath about a month ago to a judge regarding the creation of this highly controversial affidavit! How does it go from “There is no document your honor” to "Not willing to hand it over to a Judge" to now okay... anyone who FOIA's the document can have it?! At this point I’m not sure I would believe anything coming from YPSI.


The FBI always gets it right don't they??? I guess we could ask the family of Richard Jewel couldn't we? http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/29/richard.jewell/index.html

Detective Coppock did not lie under oath. She said she didn't remember which is what most lawyers will tell you to say. The story of the warrant has been gone over and over. Attorney Stablein went fishing and caught a big one.
I become very uncomfortable with the T family and they're horrible, awful bad luck. Everyone is against them...all the darn time. Really? Corrupt cops and FBI, family lying and on and on. It never stops.
Like many, I hope it wasn't JT who took Julias life because the ramifications are awful but I'm off the fence and clearly on the side that JT did it. Sad.
Georgia

 

[Spellbound]

Detective Coppock did not lie under oath. She said she didn't remember which is what most lawyers will tell you to say. The story of the warrant has been gone over and over. Attorney Stablein went fishing and caught a big one.
I become very uncomfortable with the T family and they're horrible, awful bad luck. Everyone is against them...all the darn time. Really? Corrupt cops and FBI, family lying and on and on. It never stops.
Like many, I hope it wasn't JT who took Julias life because the ramifications are awful but I'm off the fence and clearly on the side that JT did it. Sad.
Georgia

Thanks georgiablu. I totally agree. At this point, I am believing JT either did it or knows who did. Either way, this family is already in shambles, and that is truly a sad fact. Mostly, I feel for the youngest daughter, who is barely a teen.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Errors are not necessarily lies. Nothing you have mentioned can be considered a lie (as far as I can tell) at this point. There are plenty more documents that LE is in possession of that may have corrected or explained the errors and we are not privileged to them at this point.

Dazed, I applaud your support, even if we seem to be on opposite sides with most of this. However, I am open to (and would welcome) finding out JT had no involvement, but you seem set on only his side being the truth. Do I read you wrong?

We do have one thing in common. True Justice for Julia is what we both want. I am very much one sided in this debate, <modsnip>. It's easy to form an opinion given limited information that can be molded into what one would like to see. I am not willing to do that... I will question every bit of info I have been given and question it until there are concrete answers before I cast judgement.

 

[Spellbound]

We do have one thing in common. True Justice for Julia is what we both want. I am very much one sided in this debate, as I know much more regarding the case than am able to share on this forum. It's easy to form an opinion given limited information that can be molded into what one would like to see. I am not willing to do that... I will question every bit of info I have been given and question it until there are concrete answers before I cast judgement.

BBM

Thanks for this. I understand your point, though even if KT or JT was my best friend, I do not think I could completely rely on what I learn from them or their inner circle, any more than I trust my own kids to always tell the truth or give the whole picture. But that is just how I am, I have learned to be skeptical of too much, but it has paid off more often than not. It seems to me that KT and her circle can mold their info, just the same as any opposing side (per your bonded statement). Reading between the lines is always difficult. Getting concrete evidence in either direction would be a blessing we are most likely not going to get.

I imagine the the family feels like they are being inspected with a microscope (and in a way they are). None of us would want to be in their shoes. For that, I give them consideration.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

BBM

Thanks for this. I understand your point, though even if KT or JT was my best friend, I do not think I could completely rely on what I learn from them or their inner circle, any more than I trust my own kids to always tell the truth or give the whole picture. But that is just how I am, I have learned to be skeptical of too much, but it has paid off more often than not. It seems to me that KT and her circle can mold their info, just the same as any opposing side (per your bonded statement). Reading between the lines is always difficult. Getting concrete evidence in either direction would be a blessing we are most likely not going to get.

I imagine the the family feels like they are being inspected with a microscope (and in a way they are). None of us would want to be in their shoes. For that, I give them consideration.

For the record, I am not part of "their" inner circle. I have seen documented proof (such as court documents). I'm not fool enough to blindly believe what I am told...by anyone.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Somebody set up a website with these accusations against WAA. This website vanished (possibly WAA threatened to sue this person), so I could not look it up again. Yes, he probably did not have a vasectomy.

WAA was in a bad MVA about 5 years ago and was said to have a closed head injury. Maybe this change caused him to be more aggressive? I have to wonder if there were other physical injuries that could cause physiological changes in him too, perhaps making things appear as though he had a vasectomy, if that's even possible.

 

[ModMaiden]

The fact people have questioned what Kim did with the rug just boggles my mind! Obviously LE was in total control of the scene until they deemed they were finished. Who's fault is it the rug is not in evidence?!?!

Multiple signatures? Possibly because the "proof" was a tad bit sketchy?

I can explain why I asked about the rug and I don't believe I ever accused KT of taking it. I had read that LE noticed the rug in photos taken and could not find it. When asked about it LE was told no one knew about where it was. I don't believe 'no one' knows about the rug because someone took it away. All I was wondering about is why the denial of where the rug went. Who cleaned the room would have answered at least the 'who' part but not the 'why' or the 'where'.

Crime scenes aren't normally pretty so evidence can and will be overlooked at first. When they noticed the rug in the photo and wanted to see the actual rug is when they discovered it missing. Can't fault them for trying to track it down or others to wonder about it. It could have contained clues or could have not but we won't know now.

 

[FindHG]

Trojan and 4ist,... stay strong. My heart goes out to you for how much hurt going over all the information must cause you. The way you handle yourselves, in deference to your granddaughters (especially the younger one, who is so intensely mired and close to what seems like egregious circumstances for a child), is nothing short of admirable. I'm grateful to witness the standards you set for yourselves as you pursue justice for Julia.

 

[ModMaiden]

I knew I was stepping into the hot coals when I finally started posting here. We all see things differently, I ask a lot of why questions because any little detail may help answer a question or provide a piece to the puzzle. Well truthfully I ask too many why questions period. What I don't understand is the divide here. There is only one goal this thread pertains to and that is finding Justice for Julie.

So...here is a why question.

Why won't JT release a formal statement to LE for the dates in question?

That formal statement appears to be a crucial piece for the investigators while some feel it's pointless because everything else points to his innocence. Yet if we know why perhaps that answer will lead us to the next piece of the puzzle or the next why question. We can't stop asking why something happened and this refusal makes me wonder why won't he give one.

JT might not be the killer and he might be. It's a tough call and right now I'm not fully convinced of his guilt. Maybe he should have his own thread under the Trials forum so concentrating on Julie stays as the main focus under this one. What we all know is Julie was murdered and someone is guilty.

It troubles me most with this thread is how the lines seem to be drawn. I believe Trojan1966 has said repeatedly his one and only concern is finding who killed Julie. My impression is he doesn't care who the killer is but that this person who took the life of his Granddaughter is identified, arrested, tried in a court of law and sentenced for the crime if found guilty. He wants Julie's killer found but wants it to be the right person. That is the message I hear Julie's Grandfather telling us.

Just my observations and opinions.

 

[Spellbound]

ModMaiden, I can't answer your question, but I wish we did know that answer. Thank you for your help, support, encouragement, and your questions. Keeping the thread on-track and civil is one of my goals, though it does seem to slide off a bit too often. This has been one of the most emotional threads I have ever participated in, perhaps because it feels like a part of my family since it does involve my community.

 

[Trojan1966]

ModMaiden - Thanks for your comments. Yes, my focus is on Justice for Julia. This thread does seem to drift a bit but now because of the possible child trial for JT, more documents and more information has been released to the public concerning Julia's murder. The recently released documents have provided me & my wife with many details and background info that we never heard about before. Some details are really upsetting for us but we must push through all this and the current pending trial to solve this murder. We have hoped and prayed that once this is over, that JT and KT would cooperate with LE every chance they get. Personally, I'm not sure they will because of the way they feel that LE has dug too deep into their lives. If they do not cooperate, that will make finding the answers that much harder but I have faith that answers will come to light as LE seems to be relentlessly investigating this crime. Like so many crimes, the seemingly smallest clue may blow this case wide open. We pray for answers each and every night. Justice for Julia!

 

[black_squirrel]

So...here is a why question.

Why won't JT release a formal statement to LE for the dates in question?

That formal statement appears to be a crucial piece for the investigators while some feel it's pointless because everything else points to his innocence. Yet if we know why perhaps that answer will lead us to the next piece of the puzzle or the next why question. We can't stop asking why something happened and this refusal makes me wonder why won't he give one.

I think JT's lawyer answered that question:

Stablein said his client voluntarily gave his computer to Ypsilanti police in late 2014 as part of the investigation into Niswender's death. Stablein said Turnquist was then asked to answer further questions, but the lawyer intervened.

"I'm not going to let him be repeatedly interrogated by officers that are hell bent on tripping him up -- if that's what it is," he said.

 

[georgiasblu]

I can explain why I asked about the rug and I don't believe I ever accused KT of taking it. I had read that LE noticed the rug in photos taken and could not find it. When asked about it LE was told no one knew about where it was. I don't believe 'no one' knows about the rug because someone took it away. All I was wondering about is why the denial of where the rug went. Who cleaned the room would have answered at least the 'who' part but not the 'why' or the 'where'.

Crime scenes aren't normally pretty so evidence can and will be overlooked at first. When they noticed the rug in the photo and wanted to see the actual rug is when they discovered it missing. Can't fault them for trying to track it down or others to wonder about it. It could have contained clues or could have not but we won't know now.

I want to clarify something. It wasn't you Mod Maiden, it was me who asked, "Where is the rug, Kim?" My purpose was to ask who had a reason to take the rug. Didn't want you to take the blame.