MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[georgiasblu]

MamaDMK, i would think there would have been evidence of some sort whether it was emails or texts, and phone calls. We know that Julia had a date Saturday night, we know JN wasn't privy to that informatiob and yet they found him, questioned him and cleared him. I think there would have been something there.

 

[Skigirl]

I am not as familiar with the details of this case as some of you are, but I've been mulling over the affidavit all morning. Some observations...sorry if these are points that have all been previously discussed:

- JT's behavior during the immediate aftermath of the discovery of JN's body, at least as described by LE, was odd, IMHO.
- It's terribly sad that her parents described her to LE as a promiscuous party girl; she sounds like a pretty average 20-something college student to me.
- It seems incredibly BOLD to me that someone entered her apartment building and carried out a murder in an apartment that housed two other people. I would think that sort of crime would be more likely to be committed by someone who wouldn't stand out in the building -- someone around the age of the other residents, rather than someone middle-aged.
- The attack does not strike me as a sexual encounter gone wrong. The gloves and the fact that the killer had the presence of mind to remove her keys from her keychain and lock up behind him makes me think that murder was on the agenda from the start.
- I think the ransacking was a red herring meant to make it appear that there was a break-in, when instead, I think she knew her killer.

I lived in Ann Arbor for many years and I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the violence and senselessness of this crime. It sounds like her life had its share of hardships and what happened to end her life is so sad. That poor girl.

 

[georgiasblu]

I am not as familiar with the details of this case as some of you are, but I've been mulling over the affidavit all morning. Some observations...sorry if these are points that have all been previously discussed:

- JT's behavior during the immediate aftermath of the discovery of JN's body, at least as described by LE, was odd, IMHO.
- It's terribly sad that her parents described her to LE as a promiscuous party girl; she sounds like a pretty average 20-something college student to me.
- It seems incredibly BOLD to me that someone entered her apartment building and carried out a murder in an apartment that housed two other people. I would think that sort of crime would be more likely to be committed by someone who wouldn't stand out in the building -- someone around the age of the other residents, rather than someone middle-aged.
- The attack does not strike me as a sexual encounter gone wrong. The gloves and the fact that the killer had the presence of mind to remove her keys from her keychain and lock up behind him makes me think that murder was on the agenda from the start.
- I think the ransacking was a red herring meant to make it appear that there was a break-in, when instead, I think she knew her killer.

I lived in Ann Arbor for many years and I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the violence and senselessness of this crime. It sounds like her life had its share of hardships and what happened to end her life is so sad. That poor girl.

I have problems with the remarks about sexual promiscuity too. Sad. Victimizing her again.

 

[black_squirrel]

MamaDMK, i would think there would have been evidence of some sort whether it was emails or texts, and phone calls. We know that Julia had a date Saturday night, we know JN wasn't privy to that informatiob and yet they found him, questioned him and cleared him. I think there would have been something there.

I believe Julia told coworkers about the date. Then, eventually, Jennifer heard about it too.

 

[Skigirl]

In Michigan you have to hold a Juris Doctor degree, pass the Michigan Bar Exam and be a practicing attorney, then it's recommended to obtain a clerkship under a judge. The clerks are required to do extensive research for the the judge they are under. Michigan judges are appointed by government officials or elected.

I, personally know a judge, who consults specialists for cases and has clerks working under him on civil and criminal cases. Oddly enough, it may seem to some that he makes snap decisions on some cases, but he has so much experience with the type of cases that come before him, it's hard to get anything past him. That being said, he tells me that every case is different.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6779026_requirements-become-judge-michigan.html

Thanks for that information. My quote was in response to a post that said that judges are required to have the highest degree in law and many years of experience. A JD isn't the highest degree in law, and IMHO, the minimum of five years isn't many, but that said, I don't mean to dispute that many judges have a lot of experience and a sold grounding in the law. I just didn't agree that the requirements of judgeship support the argument that was made in the original post.

 

[black_squirrel]

I have problems with the remarks about sexual promiscuity too. Sad. Victimizing her again.

In the report, det. Coppock wasn't citing the parents literally and the parents may not have used the term "sexual promiscuity". In any case, if Julia did
have various sexual relationships then LE should know about it, of course.

 

[Spellbound]

I am not sure a middle-aged person would stand out, as Julia lived in an off-campus apartment complex. I imagine there are all ages of residents there. With the close proximity to the college, a large portion are probably younger people, though. *

Unless this was a totally random selection of which apartment was to be entered, I think the perp knew she would be alone (roommates let). JMO


*ETA: correction: according to their website, Peninsular Place is an American Campus community. American Campus Communities is the nation's premier owner and manager of luxurious, academically-oriented student housing.

http://ypsistudenthousing.com

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Respectfully Dazed, I think you are reaching with this argument. Obviously, Ypsi doesn't have enough for an arrest or JT's bum would be parked in a jail. When or if that occurs I can assure you it won't be based on what we all read in the warrant docs. The warrants detailed probable cause for a search warrant. I understand you are unhappy about the affidavit being publicized but that was a gamble Stablein took and it backfired.
Additionally, the inferred threats of slander and civil court are just silly and based on what? Comments made to a leo?

The document being released didn't backfire on anyone other than those pointing fingers within in. It's in a signed document presented to the courts. It's called "proof" of what has been stated. ;-)

 

[Spellbound]

I don't see how anything in the document backfired on the individuals reporting if they believed or knew to be correct what they provided. It seemed pretty clear to me when someone was speaking a belief as opposed to a confirmed fact. They all said who had told them, what they had observed, or how they knew whatever they stated. They were as honest as they could be at the time, it seems.

JMO

 

[caspermi]

Did Julia often have the apartment to herself? Did roommates generally go home on weekends, or stay at their significant others apartments/dorms?
If so, I imagine this opens the door for a multitude of different types of night time visitors.
Possibilities:
An older, married man (that had a vasectomy?)
A professor, or any type of authority figure, maybe a boss
A friend who has a known girlfriend/wife.
A more experienced stranger met on any social media website

If I were looking to explore any type of "frowned upon" relationship and I knew my roommates would be gone, I would absolutely take advantage of utilizing MY home, as it would be familiar and seem safer.

* I am in no way insinuating that Julia took part in any type of sexually based meet ups, just stating it shouldn't be over looked as this type of behavior is generally not shouted from the rooftop.

I hate to raise the question, but could JN have been "working on the side"? Backpage? CL? SugarDaddy?

Did she have a burner phone?

 

[Trojan1966]

You're the one who released the document Trojan. I guess it you wanted it to be a mute discussion it shouldn't have been posted.

Do you really think merely opinions will be entertained in court? The judge will certainly require proof regarding the statements before it would be allowed to be used in a murder trial. This document would certainly be brought up and scrutinized... could be in a civil trial as well. I guess one could explain which version of their statements they would like to swear to under oath....

How can a document that contains known errors...per your statement, be treated as if the rest of it is dead on accurate? That's an insane assumption.

First of all, I didn't know you were a legal expert. I have researched lots of things and have not found where an affidavit for a search warrant would be admissible in a court of law during a trial. If there is anything important in such a document, then the actual person would be called to testify in one way or another. Again, looking at the overall context of the affidavit, both judges felt there was a justified reason to issue a search warrant and the search warrant was a legal search. That's it, that's all that needs to be said. Let's press on with discussing and solving the actual crime. If certain people will not assist in this endeavor, there are ways around their lack of cooperation and that's what LE will do until they find the true suspect.

 

[Skigirl]

I'd be interested in peoples theories or opinions about who might be responsible for her murder if we were to rule out JT. Staying within the TOS (e.g., not naming people who have not been named by law enforcement), what person or type of person would have been the most likely to commit this crime?

I would say "someone else in his 20s who wouldn't have been noticed if seen in the building," if it weren't for the apparent vasectomy, but I don't think vasectomies are very common at that age. I suppose it's possible that there was some other condition responsible for the lack of sperm.

I would also be able to believe it was someone she was seeing and for whatever reason they were keeping things quiet (professor, grad student, some other university worker, boss at Walmart, married person or someone else who wouldn't necessarily want the relationship to be known), except I would think someone like that would be even more nervous about being seen in the building.

 

[georgiasblu]

I hate to raise the question, but could JN have been "working on the side"? Backpage? CL? SugarDaddy?

Did she have a burner phone?

I think not. She worked at Walmart, went to school and was actively looking for extra Christmas money by working for a man she disliked.

 

[FindHG]

FindHG : Julia's car was towed once that I know of. She had parked in a "No Parking" area at her apartment complex (I think near a dumpster) and her car was towed. It was towed by the towing company just down the street from her apartment. She had parked there because there was no place else to park - no "empty spots". The apartment complex settled this with the towing company the next day. There were just too many "visitors" that night to the apartment complex.

Thank you, Trojan. Any knowledge of who owned the dumpster? I recall posting images of the garbage from around there and the trucks upthread. So, she may have been ticketed or was it a private tow?

 

[MIMOMMY]

I think not. She worked at Walmart, went to school and was actively looking for extra Christmas money by working for a man she disliked.

If she disliked him so much then why post about her love for her on her own social media outlets?

 

[caspermi]

If she disliked him so much then why post about her love for her on her own social media outlets?

And buying him a laptop as a Christmas gift.

 

[MIMOMMY]

I think not. She worked at Walmart, went to school and was actively looking for extra Christmas money by working for a man she disliked.

If she disliked him so much then why post about her love for her on him own social media outlets?

 

[georgiasblu]

And buying him a laptop as a Christmas gift.

I believe, moo, that she did a lot of things to keep peace for her love of her Mom and sisters. We have heard from Bff and grandparents that she did not like him and that they did not get along. Again, MOO.

 

[MIMOMMY]

I believe, moo, that she did a lot of things to keep peace for her love of her Mom and sisters. We have heard from Bff and grandparents that she did not like him and that they did not get along. Again, MOO.

So what you are saying is that she got on her own personal social media and posted "I love you daddy" to keep the peace with her mother and siblings? Why not just make an appearance at family events as needed? Why go in with JN and spend significant money on a laptop for this individual she is just "keeping" the peace with? Does hatred for someone cause you to spend significant money on a gift? Or do you just go and buy a hoodie and call it gift given?

That seems a bit far fetched to me - especially for a young adult. I know that when I was that age I did not have the best relationship with my parent's and simply moved away and spent as little time as possible. Most young adults do this to some extent anyways when they move away to college.

 

[Trojan1966]

Thank you, Trojan. Any knowledge of who owned the dumpster, I recall posting images of the garbage around there and the trucks upthread. So, she may have been ticketed or was it a private tow?

The dumpster belonged to the apartment complex. It was in the parking lot (I believe it was near the rear of her building near the front parking lot) and had an area in front of it marked as a no parking zone or a sign on the dumpster saying no parking. It was a private tow.