MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[black_squirrel]

In my *opinion and speculation*, yes. Like Julia's murder, I find it hard to believe one person could have moved these bodies alone.
And respectfully monster, I do believe the poster from SM. I don't think those claims should be dismissed, but further investigated. Just my opinion, of course.

If Julia's body was placed in the bathtub after her death, then that would indeed require considerable strength. Without being too graphic, I think this could be done without having to lift the whole body at one time. A college athlete for example, would be able to do this, I think. On the other hand, I don't see any reason
why it couldn't have been more than 1 person involved in Julia's death.

In Chelsea's case, it is not clear how much DC had to move the body. Chelsea may have been killed near the place where her body was found. I think this is what police originally believed. Or, maybe Chelsea died inside the car (as DC claims). In both cases, it would not require lifting the body completely from the ground. If presume that police knows whose car was used, if it wasn't Clay's. (But perhaps we can further discuss that in Chelsea's thread.)

 

[rosesfromangels]

Depending on how Julia was subdued, I don't see one man having an easy time doing that. Every characterization I have heard of her suggests she would have fought back with furor. Again, there are many factors and details we don't know, but I'm still leaning towards 2 Perps. However, we know that DC allegedly got one of his alleged victims in to the bathroom/bathtub, so anything is apparently possible.

 

[black_squirrel]

Depending on how Julia was subdued, I don't see one man having an easy time doing that. Every characterization I have heard of her suggests she would have fought back with furor. Again, there are many factors and details we don't know, but I'm still leaning towards 2 Perps. However, we know that DC allegedly got one of his alleged victims in to the bathroom/bathtub, so anything is apparently possible.

I do not know how Julia was subdued, but I believe it happened before she was placed in the bathtub. The evidence suggests that her hands and feet were tied, and she would not have been able to fight back. How she was subdued is unclear, but I think it may have been a surprise attack (for example a choke hold, or use of a stun gun).

It is quite common that serial rapists make their victims take a bath (to wash of evidence). The victims often fear for their lives so they comply. And Clay also used physical force.

 

[Spellbound]

As to how she was subdued ..... has it been completely ruled out that her attacks of vaso-vagal (sp.?) could not have caused her to pass out? It seems we did go over and over that at the beginning, but I still have it nagging in the back of my mo]ind that it played a role.

 

[Skigirl]

In my *opinion and speculation*, yes. Like Julia's murder, I find it hard to believe one person could have moved these bodies alone.
And respectfully monster, I do believe the poster from SM. I don't think those claims should be dismissed, but further investigated. Just my opinion, of course.

Single killers move bodies -- even large bodies -- without assistance all the time, though.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I know you are right about that Ski, but I don't see all that transpired there (what we do know), being done by one person. But you are right, this horrific crime could have happened in many different ways. Since we don't know the results of the LE investigation, it's hard to speculate. But of course I will! : )

 

[FindHG]

Interesting, something monster12 mentioned reminded about the van JT pulled up in, right next to Julia's window, after he was called to the scene. Could he have been trying to hide foot prints under the recent snow there?

There was that whole notion that he may have carved out time, to make sure Julia would be alone studying that Sunday night and early Monday morning, during the end of exams, with all her roommates away. Being considered a POI in the case, either he or the perp may have been searching for something, thus making a mess yet taking nothing of value.

She seems to have been tormented and murdered with some planning. Considering the time it took for Julia to be discovered in the bath-tub on Tuesday evening, the ringing alarm on heard on Monday morning, then her TV left on very loud on Tuesday, the disposition of her keys, it could be possible the perp came in and out, with multiple sets of gloves, and one fell out of his pocket, while the lights were off, after cleaning up or while coming back just to turn up the volume?

Why would a perp who had no relation to Julia need her discovered on Tuesday and come back to turn up the volume, in other words, why would a perp get antsy enough to return to turn up the volume? Wouldn't a stranger or another student have quit the scene and not looked back for fear of being caught? It seems whomever did this crime may have over done it, and that may ultimately be their undoing. CD was not so neat about his crimes. Julia's murders has left her stepdad, JT, who ran a cleaning service specializing in apartment complexes, the POI for strong reasons it seems possible. So, after cleaning trying to clean up all the evidence, making a mess for no reason at all, seem to make some sense too, as a gesture of distancing, for somebody known to clean apartments maybe?

 

[black_squirrel]

Interesting, something monster12 mentioned reminded about the van JT pulled up in, right next to Julia's window, after he was called to the scene. Could he have been trying to hide foot prints under the recent snow there?

I never heard of JT pulling up a van right next to Julia's window. Is this mentioned somewhere? Anyway, there are parking places around Julia's apartment. I guess most of the parking spaces would have been taken on a Tuesday evening. People arriving at the scene probably just park at the parking spot that is closest to the entrance of the apartment.

There was that whole notion that he may have carved out time, to make sure Julia would be alone studying that Sunday night and early Monday morning, during the end of exams, with all her roommates away. Being considered a POI in the case, either he or the perp may have been searching for something, thus making a mess yet taking nothing of value.

Are you suggesting that the people responsible for Julia's death are JT and some other person? Anyway, I am not sure how anyone could have really planned of Julia being alone. One roommate was gone but came back Monday morning. The other was there Sunday evening. But I don't see how the perpetrator could really have planned for Julia to be alone. In my opinion, the perpetrator may have observed the apartment, and noticed that only Julia was in it.

She seems to have been tormented and murdered with some planning. Considering the time it took for Julia to be discovered in the bath-tub on Tuesday evening, the ringing alarm on heard on Monday morning, then her TV left on very loud on Tuesday, the disposition of her keys, it could be possible the perp came in and out, with multiple sets of gloves, and one fell out of his pocket, while the lights were off, after cleaning up or while coming back just to turn up the volume?

If I recall correctly, the loud TV was heard on Sunday evening, not on Tuesday.

Why would a perp who had no relation to Julia need her discovered on Tuesday and come back to turn up the volume, in other words, why would a perp get antsy enough to return to turn up the volume? Wouldn't a stranger or another student have quit the scene and not looked back for fear of being caught? It seems whomever did this crime may have over done it, and that may ultimately be their undoing. CD was not so neat about his crimes. Julia's murders has left her stepdad, JT, who ran a cleaning service specializing in apartment complexes, the POI for strong reasons it seems possible. So, after cleaning trying to clean up all the evidence, making a mess for no reason at all, seem to make some sense too, as a gesture of distancing, for somebody known to clean apartments maybe?

I believe profilers distinguish such violent crimes as "organized" or "unorganized'. I think DC seems to be mostly (but not completely) unorganized. I don't think there was a lot of deliberate planning ahead of Julia's murder. As far as we know, he didn't bring a weapon. Rather, he used his physical strength or some random object to cause blunt force trauma. There is some moderate attempt to cover up the crime, by hiding the body. I still don't know whether the clothes were left at the other location randomly, or with some deliberation.

I believe that Julia's death was planned. The perpetrator brought something to restrain her, and took the ligatures when he left. The gloves may have been deliberately placed. The disarray seems to have been staged as well. The killer got rid of Julia's cell phone (by sinking it). Specific items were taken.

Serial rapists and killers often clear the crime scene of evidence, even if they do not know the victim. But I agree that there may be a relationship between the perpetrator and Julia. However, there are so many people that have some kind of relationship to Julia. In any case, a perpetrator would like to body to be found as late as possible. So it make sense to lock Julia's door.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Julia's case kept me awake last night! It's good to see renewed activity on this thread. Maybe it's because we are approaching the date of her passing, or maybe it's because this case is near resolution!
I have talked to some of the brightest folks I know about Julia, and one consistent theme/question keeps being asked:

"What did she know?"

I would add to that list:

WHO did she know
WHY Julia
WHAT did they take
WHEN did they come and go

Today I am laser focused on thinking about the layout of that apartment again. I am dwelling on whether this was an opportunistic attack; was her apartment situated in a manner that facilitated entry and escape *above and beyond* the other apartments, or was Julia *specifically targeted*. And then of course, if specifically targeted, why. Why Julia? Out of all those co-eds, why Julia?

If there are any locals on the thread, can you please characterize if EMU is still talking about this crime, and what the latest collective theory is? I'm sure the students have moved on, but the faculty and locals must have an opinion. Or do they even speak of this anymore?

WHY Julia?
WHAT did she know?

 

[Spellbound]

Roses, I do think Julia's apartment was easy to access without much observation. She was on the first floor, I believe her entrance door was in a nook of sorts.

The manner of death suggests to me a targeted attack, not random. JMO, though.

I am not in Ypsilanti area, so do not know if it is discussed around there very much. Nothing heard in Monroe area that I have seen.

 

[monster12]

Julia's case kept me awake last night! It's good to see renewed activity on this thread. Maybe it's because we are approaching the date of her passing, or maybe it's because this case is near resolution!
I have talked to some of the brightest folks I know about Julia, and one consistent theme/question keeps being asked:

"What did she know?"

I would add to that list:

WHO did she know
WHY Julia
WHAT did they take
WHEN did they come and go

Today I am laser focused on thinking about the layout of that apartment again. I am dwelling on whether this was an opportunistic attack; was her apartment situated in a manner that facilitated entry and escape *above and beyond* the other apartments, or was Julia *specifically targeted*. And then of course, if specifically targeted, why. Why Julia? Out of all those co-eds, why Julia?

If there are any locals on the thread, can you please characterize if EMU is still talking about this crime, and what the latest collective theory is? I'm sure the students have moved on, but the faculty and locals must have an opinion. Or do they even speak of this anymore?

WHY Julia?
WHAT did she know?

I am local to both cases (this and Chelsea's) and if I didn't find this site, I probably would not know much besides "a girl went missing in the Monroe area" and I probably wouldn't know anything about Julia's case. I have friends and family that have never heard of either except from me. So unless you are following the case, I think people would just brush it off on the news.

I am about 15 minutes from Eastern and have friends that attended there, and don't recall them speaking of this. In my opinion the only ones that would or do, are the ones directly involved or following like us. I guess what I'm getting it is I don't think people are walking around campus still talking about it with no new developments or exposure, unless asked directly about it.


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[Spellbound]

I believe the same as you, monster. No one talks about it any more unless they have some direct knowledge/involvement. :tears:

 

[black_squirrel]

Today I am laser focused on thinking about the layout of that apartment again. I am dwelling on whether this was an opportunistic attack; was her apartment situated in a manner that facilitated entry and escape *above and beyond* the other apartments, or was Julia *specifically targeted*. And then of course, if specifically targeted, why. Why Julia? Out of all those co-eds, why Julia?

Julia's apartment/room (#120) is on the southwest corner of the building. The entrance is on the first floor, and is indeed in a nook as mentioned before. So there is easy access to this particular apartment. It was also possible to get to the apartment from the road by crossing the railroad. I think it would have been possible to sneak up to the apartment without much risk of being seen.

If there are any locals on the thread, can you please characterize if EMU is still talking about this crime, and what the latest collective theory is? I'm sure the students have moved on, but the faculty and locals must have an opinion. Or do they even speak of this anymore?

WHY Julia?
WHAT did she know?

I don't know what is being discussed on campus. But the local news has reported that students were upset, because some unknown person sprayed racist graffiti on some campus buildings. Most students who were at EMU when Julia was there have graduated now.

 

[black_squirrel]

Julia's case has been on my mind off and on all day. Two themes keep emerging for me; tattoos and cell phone.

Tattoo: I know tattoos are very common place today, most especially with a certain age group. Taking that in to consideration, it seems like the theme of tattoos runs deep with both Julia's and Chelsea Bruck's case. Lot's of discussion about matching and memorial tattoo's in the Niswender case. Chelsea had a notable tattoo, and her alleged Perp was arrested stealing tattoo gear. Just so odd.... Did they all go to the same tatt parlour?

Cell phone: Communications. Julia was a communications major. Julia was a communicator. Julia the communicator was silenced. Julia was silenced, and so was her cell phone. They were both drown. Both. Both silenced. Is that what the Perp(s) rummaged for? Her cell phone? Was the sim card removed? What did she have on that cell phone that was incriminating? The Perp(s) were probably too stupid to realize everything is stored in the cloud anyway. Was it an incriminating voice mail? Pictures? Video? Why did they kill the phone too? That is a point that must not be overlooked. They killed the phone along with Julia. They killed/drown the "communicators". Silenced.
What was on that phone....

Did Julia set up cloud services for her cell phone? I am not sure how popular those were back in 2012 (at least I wasn't using it). I wonder if Julia tried to call someone (or 911) during the attack. Perhaps she managed taking a picture, or video of the attacker. Anyway, if the there wasn't a "cloud" then the evidence on the phone may not have survived being submerged for 1 or 2 days.

 

[Forager]

Julia's apartment/room (#120) is on the southwest corner of the building. The entrance is on the first floor, and is indeed in a nook as mentioned before. So there is easy access to this particular apartment. It was also possible to get to the apartment from the road by crossing the railroad. I think it would have been possible to sneak up to the apartment without much risk of being seen.
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I don't know what is being discussed on campus. But the local news has reported that students were upset, because some unknown person sprayed racist graffiti on some campus buildings. Most students who were at EMU when Julia was there have graduated now.

A quibble: My understanding, from Trojan, was that Julia's apartment was on the NORTHwest end of the appartment building, not the southwest. Here's how the case map shows it:

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thank you all for clarifying the positioning and accessibility of Julia's apartment.
I think it would behoove us to thoroughly example the immediate surrounding area.
IIRC, there are some wearhouse type businesses within visual range of her apartment.
I would be VERY interested in knowing if there were any RSOs working at those businesses at the time of the attack, or living close by.

 

[nname734]

hey everyone, im new here.i spent some time awhile back digging into the Bruck and julia cases.<modsnip> Chelsea and julia were friends which of course raised alot of suspicions for ppl.<modsnip we kept coming back to was supposedly accusations of abuse between julia and her stepfather. but it seemed to have been ignored or swept under the rug by the family (certain family). at one point we thought maybe she confided in her friend chelsea about it and they were both silenced..highly doubtful now.but i still wonder if the alleged dark family secret she had,may have gotton her killed.from what i gathered, i heard ppl changed their stories over the years.eventually saying there was no abuse or accusation.i remember hearing something to the affect of she went to her mother or grandmother when she was younger and told them about some type of incident and someone encouraged them to keep it hushhush..i dont want to get the details wrong but im sure i was told this story by someone close to family/situation. the jist was that people have seemed to have denied any knowledge of this over the years and/or changed their stories. ive been privey to some other info and insight from a loved one,not sure what all has been discussed on here but im looking to get up to speed. this investigation seems to have been botched early on. i heard the first detective hardly even took an interest and julias roomates werent even interviewed until the 2nd detective,and hearing a rug from the apartment went missing from storage,her keys gone, and i recall hearing a zebra print pillowcase was gone too.if in fact that is true, that means it was either used to carry something out,and what couldve that of been?nothing seems to be reported missing.unless they were after the roomate's stuff and it wasnt reported..or it was personal bc she i guess loved zebra print,and it was a memento.which is highly unlikely that a pillowcase would be a memento.all very strange.wld love to get up to speed with the investigation.i havent talked or heard about it in a while

 

[rosesfromangels]

nname734,

Please remove the names of people who have not been named by law enforcement as person's of interest or suspects in the case. Otherwise, our moderators will remove your post, which has some great info. Will respond to it in a moment, but wanted to post this request right away. Please edit your post. Thanks so much!

 

[rosesfromangels]

nname734,

If you have specific insider info, please contact Ypsi law enforcement right away. Even anonymously.
Welcome, glad to have you here to participate and help us come up with fresh ideas!

 

[black_squirrel]

hey everyone, im new here.i spent some time awhile back digging into the Bruck and julia cases.

Welcome to the thread, nname734.

it all started when i was told about the "poem" that #### posted about big mikes party.me and a friend were quite obsessed with it all. we tried to connect them and threw around many theories and focused hard on #### and ####.Chelsea and julia were friends which of course raised alot of suspicions for ppl.

IIRC, the author of the poem acknowledged that he had mental health issues and that not everything he wrote was true. I think some of the things he posted have been deleted. In any case, his story doesn't match the facts as we know now (Daniel Clay being arrested for Chelsea's murder).

Chelsea and Julia weren't friends, but they knew each other. Chelsea's sister is friends with Julia's sister.

im sure not everyone is familiar with these 2,but #### was known to live in the emu area and his close family admitted he walked the tracks near julias apmt;his brothers ashes were spread along there somewhere. but something we kept coming back to was supposedly accusations of abuse between julia and her stepfather. but it seemed to have been ignored or swept under the rug by the family (certain family). at one point we thought maybe she confided in her friend chelsea about it and they were both silenced..highly doubtful now.but i still wonder if the alleged dark family secret she had,may have gotton her killed.from what i gathered, i heard ppl changed their stories over the years.eventually saying there was no abuse or accusation.i remember hearing something to the affect of she went to her mother or grandmother when she was younger and told them about some type of incident and someone encouraged them to keep it hushhush..i dont want to get the details wrong but im sure i was told this story by someone close to family/situation. the jist was that people have seemed to have denied any knowledge of this over the years and/or changed their stories. ive been privey to some other info and insight from a loved one,not sure what all has been discussed on here but im looking to get up to speed.

I am sorry to say but that is a whole bunch of "hearsay". A (step)grandmother called Child Protective Services claiming that they talked about abuse when the twins were young. The case was investigated and not further pursued by CPS. Jennifer, Julia's twin told reporters that such claims are ludicrous:

Although the contested November 2014 search warrant affidavit laid out a number of suspicions police had about Turnquist, Jennifer said most claims in the document were unsubstantiated, lacked significant detail or were outright incorrect.

"Allegations are coming from people that aren't fond on my dad -- I just kind of laugh at it," she said.

Among the allegations that she finds ludicrous are claims that the girls were abused by Turnquist.

"I'm a pretty outspoken person -- if anything was happening behind closed doors, I wouldn't remain quiet about it," she said.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/slain_emu_students_family_disc.html

If you cannot just make a lot of assertions, and just claim that you heard these. There is no way for us to verify that any of the assertions and allegations are valid. Who told you all this information?

this investigation seems to have been botched early on. i heard the first detective hardly even took an interest and julias roomates werent even interviewed until the 2nd detective,and hearing a rug from the apartment went missing from storage,her keys gone, and i recall hearing a zebra print pillowcase was gone too.if in fact that is true, that means it was either used to carry something out,and what couldve that of been?nothing seems to be reported missing.unless they were after the roomate's stuff and it wasnt reported..or it was personal bc she i guess loved zebra print,and it was a memento.which is highly unlikely that a pillowcase would be a memento.all very strange.wld love to get up to speed with the investigation.i havent talked or heard about it in a while

The missing of the pillowcase is mentioned in the affidavit and is, in fact, true. I don't see why it would be unlikely to be a memento. It is a very personal item, that also represents Julia's personal style (zebra print). So, IMO, it is not strange that it would be taken as a "trophy". But on the other hand, I can think of several other reasons why it would have been taken.