MI - Nevaeh Buchanan, 5, Monroe, 24 May 2009 - Body found - #5

[panthera]

If our concrete expert(s?) mixed to design they would have needed about 10 beer can trips per 90 lb. bag of pre-mix.

I have found myself increasingly prone to unconsciously assume plural perps. I notice you seem to be doing the same.

I wonder why that is?

I believe the FBI also suggested there may be more than one perp, at least in the disposal of her body. MOO

 

[Peliman]

I guess I'm just not understanding why people are so unwilling to believe that someone intending to bury a body, and equipped with a 90lb bag of concrete mix, a shovel, and the body of course, would also have a bucket with them.

I'm not unwilling to believe that, I just hope if that's the case the bucket was seized for evidence.

 

[not_my_kids]

The Quik-crete site says one gallon of water to 50lbs. of mix, so I'm figuring close to 20 cans. I can't think of any reason why the perp(s) would shove the can back down into the grave afterwards.

I'm not assuming plural perps although it's a possibility. I actually think it was just one guy.

I can't see any reason to push the can into the cement either, unless she was not sexually assaulted. If she wasn't, then the beer can thing may have been the only form of penetration, regardless of how symbolic, that the perp could perform. I'm just thinking through my findertips right now.

 

[doobiedoo52]

That would mean there had to be a bucket, right? Maybe they found one there and for some reason they thought Jennifer could ID it! More likely than her having a spade or shovel.

I wonder if that dirt is rocky, hard packed dirt or sandy and would be easy to dig in?

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of finding something that could have been a personal belonging of Neveah's--ie a barrette or a shoe. If it was found somewhere near the burial spot maybe the location nearby is where they think a sexual assault happened and they don't want to conduct any dna tests or whatever if it wasn't something that belonged to her. JMO

 

[fortytwo]

The Quik-crete site says one gallon of water to 50lbs. of mix, so I'm figuring close to 20 cans. I can't think of any reason why the perp(s) would shove the can back down into the grave afterwards.

I'm not assuming plural perps although it's a possibility. I actually think it was just one guy.

I'm cool with 20 cans. I was going by standard mix design proportions, which is about 1:12 by weight. I generally order concrete by cu. yd, and slothfully went by that instead of researching bag mixes.

You are of course, right about the can being in the excavation.

I didn't express myself well. I'm not assuming multiple perps either. Not consciously. But for some reason when I type these posts I find myself editing away plurals. I wonder if my subconscious is trying to tell me something.

 

[Steely Dan]

This might be helpful; Linky

How many cubic feet in a 80 pound bag of quikrete?

There is 2/3 cu. ft. per 80 lb. bag of pre-mixed concrete.

0.6 cubic feet from an 80# bag of quikrete. See http://www.quikrete.com/Calculator/Main.asp#concrete

27 cu ft / 45 bags = 0.6 cu ft / bag

You need about 1.5 bags per cubic foot.

As I recall it take 66 60 lb bags of readycrete mix to make a cubic yard (27 cubic feet). So it would only take about 50 80 lb bags for the same 27 cubic feet.

Linky

1. Mix using clean equipment and tools. The correct mix ratio is 3-1/2
pints of water to every 25-pound bag of QUIKRETE® Fast-Setting
Underlayment.

So if my math is correct for 90 pounds of quickcrete approx. 1.5 gallons of water would be needed. With a 12oz can it would take approx. 17 fills to mix the quickcrete. If you're dunking the can into the water it's not unreasonable to assume this might be in the realm of possibility. He could mix it with his hands and then just clean them off in the river. JMO

 

[faefrost]

More thoughts on this.

I have been trying to puzzle out the "why" of the concrete from its first mention. All of the ideas I have come up with result in "It wouldn't have worked".

As we have seen, it didn't protect from discovery from traffic.

It didn't serve to conceal the body, but rather attracted attention, which would be expected.

It wouldn't have protected from animals or insects.

It wouldn't have protected from erosion, or at least not for long. Erosion would have first drawn attention to the spot, and then probably undermined around it.

It certainly wouldn't have accelerated decomposition, nor would it have slowed it down significantly.

There isn't much indication of intelligent planning here.

Even the site itself is remarkably stupid. Far from being "isolated", I can think of few places more likely than a good fishing spot close to town to guarantee visitors at all times of day, night, or year with plenty of time on their hands to ponder their immediate surroundings, and reason to walk around.

When I finally found the location on Google Earth streetview I told (the stunningly beautiful) Mrs. fortytwo that any fisherman would instantly recognize that as a popular place to fish, even if they were moving 60 mph and had never been in the state before.

There were times in my youth when my car's ignition would have cut off on its own just driving past it.

I'm sticking with my "seemed like a good idea when drunk" theory of body disposal.

We keep looking for deep meaning, inteligence or intentional plans in something that really when examined from any angle just looks very very stupid.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I can't see any reason to push the can into the cement either, unless she was not sexually assaulted. If she wasn't, then the beer can thing may have been the only form of penetration, regardless of how symbolic, that the perp could perform. I'm just thinking through my findertips right now.

I don't think the can had any symbolic or useful purpose. I think, if it was the perps beer and not just litter that he kicked into the grave, he tossed it in when he finished drinking it...just because he could.

 

[scandi]

Where can I find the information about JB being taken to the burial scene to ID something? When did this happen? I doubt LE would have left anything there after they released the scene and then brought her back later to identify it.

I'm still looking for it!

However I did read in a link the concrete covered an area of about 2.5' x 1.5' acc to Mr Bickley. I had read 3 x 4 feet somewhere else.

And then Nursie found this video where it tells they had been fishing there a couple of hours before their fishing movements started to crack open the concrete. In another article it said they slmost had their limit of fish.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/state/story/Childs-Body-May-be-5-Year-Old-Nevaeh/h9RAk9v0Ikmsy0LW057cYA.cspx

 

[Chilly Willy]

I'm cool with 20 cans. I was going by standard mix design proportions, which is about 1:12 by weight. I generally order concrete by cu. yd, and slothfully went by that instead of researching bag mixes.

You are of course, right about the can being in the excavation.

I didn't express myself well. I'm not assuming multiple perps either. Not consciously. But for some reason when I type these posts I find myself editing away plurals. I wonder if my subconscious is trying to tell me something.

Could be that same sixth sense that helps you find the good fishing spots.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I think the dude/or dudes are fisherman and prob had a bait bucket. They/he could have even scrapped a shallow hole with a metal bucket.

 

[scandi]

Maybe they took Jennifer there to see if she had ever been to that spot before.

Thanks, Scandi. I'll look for it too. It was reported that JB was taken in for more questioning after Navaeh was found, but I haven't heard anything about her being taken to the scene.

So far I've skimmed thru half of the pages in the last thread reading all the links with no luck. It wasn't in a video as I remember reading it, and it mentioned having her ID something at the site. xox

 

[fortytwo]

I guess I'm just not understanding why people are so unwilling to believe that someone intending to bury a body, and equipped with a 90lb bag of concrete mix, a shovel, and the body of course, would also have a bucket with them.

I don't have a problem with a bucket. I was only remarking on feasibility.

I'm still trying to figure out why that spot.

The only real evidence we have is of mind-numbing stupidity. That's where we should look for clues.

 

[fortytwo]

I'm sticking with my "seemed like a good idea when drunk" theory of body disposal.

We keep looking for deep meaning, inteligence or intentional plans in something that really when examined from any angle just looks very very stupid.

Ah, yes. You're the one whose post I was trying to remember.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[scandi]

If our concrete expert(s?) mixed to design they would have needed about 10 beer can trips per 90 lb. bag of pre-mix.

I have found myself increasingly prone to unconsciously assume plural perps. I notice you seem to be doing the same.

I wonder why that is?

LOL, I've noticed that too, and thought it stemmed from the Sheriff's comments of the plural 'they' used on Fri at the presser.

Then Kat told us the word they is often used in referring to a single person, and it is how they say it in Mi. :hand:

 

[Chilly Willy]

I don't have a problem with a bucket. I was only remarking on feasibility.

I'm still trying to figure out why that spot.

The only real evidence we have is of mind-numbing stupidity. That's where we should look for clues.

I know it sounds really stupid but I've got it in my mind that the perp, when he was fishing there previously, came up with the idea of having a concrete slab to sit or stand on. I've been fishing in spots were fishermen who were there before me fixed up little sitting areas using logs or rocks and, of course, we took advantage of them, just like Mr. Bickley utilized the concrete slab to stand on. I believe it's possible that the perp figured he could both dispose of the body and get himself a nice little fishing platform all at the same time.

I wish LE could have kept the discovery of the body quiet and watched that spot. I'm sure the perp have every intention of fishing there again.

 

[scandi]

I don't have a problem with a bucket. I was only remarking on feasibility.

I'm still trying to figure out why that spot.

The only real evidence we have is of mind-numbing stupidity. That's where we should look for clues.

I think it was because the perp was familiar with it.

I saw a video where the lady reporter pointed out you would never know that bank was down there by driving by the site. You would have to have been there before.

I would exclude those with a fisherman's 6th sense tho, as a break in the trees at a bend in the river might be a spot for some fine fishin'.

 

[Chilly Willy]

LOL, I've noticed that too, and thought it stemmed from the Sheriff's comments of the plural 'they' used on Fri at the presser.

Then Kat told us the word they is often used in referring to a single person, and it is how they say it in Mi. :hand:

I thought that was common across the country. If you don't know if someone is male or female, they are a 'they', even it they are a single person.

 

[fortytwo]

Could be that same sixth sense that helps you find the good fishing spots.

My sixth sense had a lot of help there. Attached are a couple of screen caps from the Google streetview cam.

It doesn't need Gale St. John to do a drive-by on this fishing spot. I can't take much credit.

 

[scandi]

I thought that was common across the country. If you don't know if someone is male or female, they are a 'they', even it they are a single person.

Yea, I was taking the word too literally! xox