MI - Three siblings in juvenile detention for contempt, Pontiac, 9 July 2015

[MyBelle]

Seems to me that so-called "parental alienation syndrome" allows judges to ignore claims of abuse (some of which might be legit), because devious mothers alienate children from their wonderful fathers.

claims of abuse require actual evidence of abuse before a Judge can take the claim seriously. Parental alienation isn't just done by mothers. It is a tactic fathers have also engaged in.

JMO

 

[gxm]

claims of abuse require actual evidence of abuse before a Judge can take the claim seriously. Parental alienation isn't just done by mothers. It is a tactic fathers have also engaged in.

JMO

Why is a child testifying that the father threatened to kill them not considered "serious" evidence?

 

[MyBelle]

Why is a child testifying that the father threatened to kill them not considered "serious" evidence?

LE responded and didn't find the claim credible.

JMO

 

[gxm]

LE responded and didn't find the claim credible.

JMO

So LE doesn't believe the victim… Where have we heard this before?

 

[Steft50]

And mothers. Mothers do it too. It blows my mind that people who claim to have great knowledge of child custody are unaware of how many absentee parents exist because they simply weren't cut out to be parents and/or have little to no interest in their own children.

My father was one. He walked out with the woman who was suppose to be my mothers best friend. On their last court appearence, as we were all walking out, I heard him tell the person he was walking with that it was too bad I was the same little c*unt my mother was, I was 17. Now mind you, as time went on I discovered he had numerous kids, including one that caused a shot gun wedding when he was 18, one with an air force nurse when I was three, another with the person who cleaned his quarters in Vietnam.....and then there was the 3 of us. It was 35 years before I saw him again. So yes, it happens.

 

[jjenny]

I am not even sure in which country the father actually lives (I've seen it reported either way). I believe his new wife and child are living in Israel.
So I presume that's where he actually spends most of his time. It's been five years, he is not getting anywhere with the children.
I think children are traumatized by all these court proceedings, especially considering the way judge treated them.
I think it would be easier for everybody involved if stopped insisting that children had to interact with him.
But it seems just the opposite. Now his lawyer wants to ask for full custody for him. How does he envision to be able to raise the children that don't even want to talk to him?

 

[KaaBoom]

Here's a case where the child was on the plane to China with his Chinese mother and the plane was turned around because the American father had a custody order and she told him she was leaving:

A mother whose plane was turned around after she tried to take her 4-year-old son to China was convicted Friday of attempted international parental kidnapping.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...arental-Kidnapping-From-Dulles-295384751.html

Thats weird. She was supposed to be sentenced June 5, 2015, but I can't find any information. I wonder what her sentence was.

 

[KaaBoom]

What passports were those kids traveling on? Because I have a feeling their were foreign. Therefore, it was assumed that permission was given when exiting the other country.

Well, the mothers anyway would most likely have been traveling on foreign passports. The children could have been traveling on US or foreign passports.

 

[KaaBoom]

I agree. The only "crazy" person so far in this case is the judge. She's needs a long vacation, and some career counseling.

I think the judge is psychotic. She should definitely have a mental evaluation. She scares me. She seems to have a weird fixation with Charles Manson. She rambles on about him through out her court cases. Thats just not normal. I don't think any normal person would see a connection between these kids and the Manson cult.

 

[KaaBoom]

The children were never in "jail."

I think the mother is toxic and unstable.

JMO

They were in juvenile detention. The judge that you seem to agree with called it jail.

 

[LinasK]

One of the many non-custodial parents who couldn't give a rat's a$$ about their children was my uncle. He molested me when I was 11 years old. Thank heavens he wasn't "interested" in having a "relationship" with his own children. I am absolutely amazed that there are so-called child advocates in existence who are completely unaware that when a child says they want nothing to do with a person, there is probably a really really good reason they don't want to be around that person. Thank heavens no one ever insisted I spend any time with my uncle who I avoided for very good reason.

ETA: I found out years later that he raped his sister, my aunt, repeatedly when they were growing up. She was unfortunate that she shared a house with him. I was lucky; I didn't.

I too was molested by my uncle, and I agree with you when there has been abuse. In this case, it's not clear there was ever any abuse, it appears to all be brain-washing on the part of the mother. I saw this in the case of Linda Clooney, who shot her own son, then convinced him to testify he attempted suicide!!!

 

[LinasK]

Why is a child testifying that the father threatened to kill them not considered "serious" evidence?

Because they could have been brain-washed to make a false claim. It happens. Especially when the other parent is vindictive/selfish enough to want sole custody.

 

[MyBelle]

They were in juvenile detention. The judge that you seem to agree with called it jail.

While the judge, in sending the children there, had likened it to a "jail" and warned they would have to "go to the bathroom in front of people," it is more of a large home, with a kitchen, dining areas and fully enclosed bathroom stalls.

"We try to make it as homelike as we can," said director George Miller. "We even re-did the front door to make it look more like a home. And there is privacy in the bathroom."

But it is still an institution, with schedules to follow and rules to obey.

"It's not Mother Goose's house," Miller said. "It's a building that has to house up to 44 kids. Its very structured, with 24 hour supervision."

Mandy's House includes kids from infants to aged 17. There were between 20 and 25 children being housed there on Thursday.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2015/07/09/childrens-village/29932113/

 

[jjenny]

Because they could have been brain-washed to make a false claim. It happens. Especially when the other parent is vindictive/selfish enough to want sole custody.

Or they are actually telling the truth but nobody listens. I as far as I can tell, there is about as much evidence of "brainwashing" as there is of abuse.

 

[MyBelle]

Or they are actually telling the truth but nobody listens. I as far as I can tell, there is about as much evidence of "brainwashing" as there is of abuse.

If he failed to persuade his GAL, no surprise he failed to persuade a judge. Perhaps his communication skills will improve with counseling and distance from his controlling mother.



:deadhorse:

 

[jjenny]

If he failed to persuade his GAL, no surprise he failed to persuade a judge. Perhaps his communication skills will improve with counseling and distance from his controlling mother.



:deadhorse:

His GAL who thinks that when children tap their feet, they are communicating in Morse code?

 

[KaaBoom]

While the judge, in sending the children there, had likened it to a "jail" and warned they would have to "go to the bathroom in front of people," it is more of a large home, with a kitchen, dining areas and fully enclosed bathroom stalls.

"We try to make it as homelike as we can," said director George Miller. "We even re-did the front door to make it look more like a home. And there is privacy in the bathroom."

But it is still an institution, with schedules to follow and rules to obey.

"It's not Mother Goose's house," Miller said. "It's a building that has to house up to 44 kids. Its very structured, with 24 hour supervision."

Mandy's House includes kids from infants to aged 17. There were between 20 and 25 children being housed there on Thursday.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2015/07/09/childrens-village/29932113/

The judge ordered them to be kept in separate "cells". This is the place. It doesn't look like any large home I have ever seen. I call it a jail. The judge calls it a jail.

http://www.cvfoundation.com/photo_gallery

 

[KaaBoom]

Do courts use a controversial theory to punish mothers who allege abuse?
‘Parental alienation’ is sometimes used in family court to wrest custody from a parent who alleges abuse
January 24, 2014 6:30AM ET
by Tim Stelloh

The once prominent child psychiatrist Richard A. Gardner coined “parental alienation syndrome” in the 1980s. Embraced by fathers’-rights advocates, the theory has been rejected by many experts and has never been recognized by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Do courts use a controversial theory to punish mothers who allege abuse?

 

[wendiesan]

"Judge" Lisa Gorcyca giving away her power to release the children to the father:

Dad, if you ever think that he has changed and he’s no longer like Charlie Manson’s cult, then you let us know and we can (review the case).”

http://www.dailytribune.com/general...ens-village-for-refusing-to-speak-with-father

Doesn't sound like an impartial judge to me. But this is Michigan. And JLG is proving how tough she is on offenders like a 14 year old math phenom. What better way to disrupt his academic progress than by sending him to "jail"? He'll have to put it on every application form. That should prove to him how much his father loves him and how much his best interests are being looked after by the court. But then, JLG doesn't think he's so smart.

“You’re supposed to have a high IQ, which I’m doubting right now because of the way you act"

After all, what would Stanford know. They must have been mistaken to invite him to attend an elite math program at the university this summer.

http://observer.com/2015/07/lawyer-...speaks-out-against-ludicrous-jailing-of-kids/

 

[Margo/Mom]

Judge lectured children on "normal" behavior. I don't find her own behavior normal. It's bizarre how she addressed the children (who are well behaved and have good manners, according to the neighbors). These children are not juvenile delinquents. The 10 year old child agreed to have lunch with the father, but judge kept berating the children and 10 year old changed his mind. Judge said that father has the power to get children released, if father tells judge his child is no longer like "Charlie Manson's cult." Yet the father went away on business (to Israel), and the children are locked up in a juvenile detention facility.

I read the transcript. Apparently this is one in a long string of court appearances. The judge kept referring back to some earlier hearing and behavior at that time. It does strike me as bizarre that the two younger children would not even go to lunch, in the same building, with cameras every where. That's not about fear for safety, it's more about anger or control. Very interesting case, however.