Michael "Kramer" Richards - a racist?

[julianne]

Kramer did not JUST drop the N word around. He let us truly see who he REALLY is on the inside.....another low-life racist who thinks he's somehow superior to others who have darker skin than him.

To defend his actions as simply "losing it" is absurd, but I have to remember that we have many many racists in this country.

When you YELL to a black man "Fifty years ago we would have had you strung upside down with a f*cking fork in your ", and say it PROUDLY, SMUGLY, and TAUNTINGLY, well THAT isn't simply "losing it".

Glitch--I agree with the part about "taking the mask" off. He DID do just that. Although it's doesn't upset you in any way, it does me because I actually thought I really liked this guy...unfortunately when his mask came off for me, it revealed a very ugly person...inside and out.

Stop the hate already.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I'm sorry... but I respectfully disagree... if it isn't ok for a white to use the word, then it isn't ok for a black to use it either. That is called "double-standards"; if it isn't acceptable by one, is shouldn't be acceptable by any.

Ok to disagree. I think you have "black and white" thinking though.

Talk to your friends who are in a minority. You will likely get different answers of course. Try and suspend your own judgment.

If you are not part of a minority, you may not understand how this term can be used differently within the context and mean something different.

 

[Nova]

Why is it okay for blacks to call each other ""? I don't get it. :waitasec:

When blacks use the term, it is automatically ironic. Not so when others use it. (wind explains this in better detail above.)

 

[Masterj]

I have a very difficult time talking about racism in here b/c it saddens me that many people clearly just don't get it.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I don't know, but I'm not black. I do agree, however, that it's a good thing that they took that word and made it one of their own. Empowerment, I believe, is the word that was used, and I think that's completely accurate.

I guess I would compare that to this: If someone I didn't know, or someone I disliked, calls me a B*tch, I would get very offended. But if a girlfriend was joking with me and called me the B word, I would probably laugh and never think of it as an insult.

That's a good analogy.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I have a very difficult time talking about racism in here b/c it saddens me that many people clearly just don't get it.

Tell us more about that please.

In the United States, the word was not originally considered derogatory, but merely denotative of black, as it was in much of the world. In nineteenth-century literature, there are many uses of the word with no intended negative connotation.
The perception of the term as derogatory is no doubt related to the fact that the Black people were a race regarded by many White people of the time as inferior, lazy, simian in appearance, stupid, and criminally inclined.

Other terms denoting Black people were intended to be derogatory from their conception, among them darky, jigaboo, porch monkey, coon, and Spook.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

 

[KrisNine]

I've learned a lot about people just by reading through these posts. I agree, that comments don't necessarily make a person a racist, but I also agree that if those words come out in anger, then they are clearly part of your vocabulary. I swear like a sailor, drop "f" bombs all of the time. My favorite place to curse is in the car, in this wonderful southern California traffic. About three weeks ago I was in the car with some people I had recently met. A truck full of landscapers cut off the driver and she screamed "watch it you stupid ****ing spicks". Well, the hair on my neck stood up and I was so uncomfortable. I guess I must have made a face because the girl said "Oh, we really don't feel that way, some of our best friends are Mexicans!!". Seriously!! That old some of my best friends line!! Me, I would have called the guy an or something, but never something like that. It's not part of my vocabulary or who I am. I'm mad at myself for not saying something. I feel that not saying something was like accepting what they said...which makes me sick. I haven't gone anywhere with them since that day, but I still feel bad.

 

[Nova]

I don't know. I have never heard whites refer to each other as "cracker" or "honky" have you?

Paula Poundstone could probably do a good routine on that topic.

Paula Poundstone could do a good routine on ANY topic. She is a comedy god!

 

[Nova]

Other terms denoting Black people were intended to be derogatory from their conception, among them darky, jigaboo, porch monkey, coon, and Spook.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Though "" may not have been intended originally to demean, it has been derogatory for so long it really doesn't matter any more. Even as a kid in the segregated South, I understood that the word was used only by the most vulgar and hateful white people.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Though "" may not have been intended originally to demean, it has been derogatory for so long it really doesn't matter any more. Even as a kid in the segregated South, I understood that the word was used only by the most vulgar and hateful white people.

Me too. The Wikepedia post was referring to how Mark Twain used it, what his intentions were. The term is still controversial and debateable even in literary circles.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

The "N" word has been used among blacks for decades--as others have said, blacks use it among themselves to lessen its meaning--as in Chris Rock's Bring The Pain famous(or infamous)HBO special from 1997--although Chris Rock dropped it from his act later,regrettng the routine--just like homosexuals call themselves queer--same thing---Kramer's use of it was outrageous--Similar to Mel Gibson's outburst,, Gibson was outraged when he was arrested--Kramer being rich and world famous,shows that he too,despite all that,also has a fragile ego--both of them ARE racists...period

 

[Paladin]

The "N" word has been used among blacks for decades--as others have said, blacks use it among themselves to lessen its meaning--as in Chris Rock's Bring The Pain famous(or infamous)HBO special from 1997--although Chris Rock dropped it from his act later,regrettng the routine--just like homosexuals call themselves queer--same thing---Kramer's use of it was outrageous--Similar to Mel Gibson's outburst,, Gibson was outraged when he was arrested--Kramer being rich and world famous,shows that he too,despite all that,also has a fragile ego--both of them ARE racists...period

Then I would venture to guess that many posting in this thread are also racists, including you and me.

 

[Masterj]

I have a very difficult time talking about racism in here b/c it saddens me that many people clearly just don't get it.

There is no rationalization for Michael Richards' actions. He was angry, yes. However, for the words and venom he spewed, he clearly has a lot of hatred in his heart and IMO, that cannot be rationalized. Anyone who attempts to make it sound like he just made an error in judgement just DOES NOT GET IT. Those words came from some place and were not just plucked out of thin air. One poster tried to draw a comparison to how a 5th grader felt when he/she was called pond scum. I mean, come on people! Do you not realize how insulting that is???? If you have never experienced being called this word loaded with hate or watched people you love being called this name, then you can not TRULY understand the pain and hurt it causes.

Edited to add - I didn't mean to quote myself. I was responding to wind's post about the meaning of my original post.

 

[julianne]

I don't use the N word in my house, or anywhere for that matter. It's is repulsive to me.

IF this Kramer guy had stopped at the word "", I would be repulsed--HOWEVER, he didn't just stop there. He proudly boasted that "50 years ago we would've had you strung upside down with a f*cking fork in your ." I know I posted that already, but that is exactly what he said. Now, to me, it's bad enough to use the "n" word----but when you spew stuff like that ABOVE statement, that is very telling to me of the real type of person he is.

When someone uses the N word, they are clearly telling me that they are someone I don't want to waste my life's minutes on, but when you go into a tirade such as that, not only does it tell me that I don't want to waste my minutes on you, it also tells me you have a low IQ, are socially and morally inept, and are not as evolved as you should be.

I can only hope he doesn't have children. Attitudes & mindsets like his should not be contributing to the gene pool.

 

[gamegirl]

The N word is so powerful. I recently came off of a jury trial that involved lots of wire taps of the Defendant's phone conversations. They used the N word constantly and affectionately in their private discussions with each other - they were all black men and close friends.

While I strongly disagree with the use of the word in any circumstance, this is a classic example of how the word itself is not the real problem, it's the intent with which the word is used - or should be so. Interestingly enough, those same gentlemen who bantered the word about "affectionately" amongst themselves would also probably be very offended if one of their white friends used the same word in the same context as they had used it. Quite the double standard, IMHO.

While I was in college I was a member and an officer in the Black Student Union - not an usual thing on a small campus except that I happen to be white. I had meals with my fellow members. I shared a room with one. I attended the same step parties, church services, cultural activies, clubs, etc. We would sit and talk and joke as friends do. And just as Southcitymom describes the interaction amongst the group of gentlemen, the N word was tossed around by other members frequently. The day it crossed my lips, in jest, without even thinking, and certainly with no malice you would have thought I had just slapped my friend. It definately was NOT ok for a white person to use the same word, in the same context. Yes, of course, we remained friends, LOL, but it was made very clear that it should never happen again. [we came to a mutual agreement that the word would not be used by me or around me to avoid the double standard].

Words are, indeed, very powerful.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

Paladin--lol--what are you talking about? your post makes zero sense--it is also offensive and I will ask the moderators here to delete it

 

[julianne]

There is no rationalization for Michael Richards' actions. He was angry, yes. However, for the words and venom he spewed, he clearly has a lot of hatred in his heart and IMO, that cannot be rationalized. Anyone who attempts to make it sound like he just made an error in judgement just DOES NOT GET IT. Those words came from some place and were not just plucked out of thin air. One poster tried to draw a comparison to how a 5th grader felt when he/she was called pond scum. I mean, come on people! Do you not realize how insulting that is???? If you have never experienced being called this word loaded with hate or watched people you love being called this name, then you can not TRULY understand the pain and hurt it causes.

Masterj, I agree 100%. It can't be rationalized AT ALL. I don't agree with your last part, though---I have never been called that, but I am smart enough to know and feel that it is a vile, vulgar, disgusting word and his statements are totally uncalled for. He showed us who he REALLY is, and it aint pretty!!! What I don't understand is how some people can possibly think they are superior because of skin color!!!! That freakin' boggles my mind & always has!!! I don't get it!!! Honestly, people who think that way are clearly "dumbed down" and have major issues. I can only hope that as time goes on, the world's population will have risen above the ridiculous notion that skin colors mean anything----Someday, we will ALL be evolved.

 

[Paladin]

Paladin--lol--what are you talking about? your post makes zero sense--it is also offensive and I will ask the moderators here to delete it

I'd say it was about as equally senseless and offensive as your point blank assertion that Mel Brooks and Michael Richards are racists.

 

[windovervocalcords]

There is no rationalization for Michael Richards' actions. He was angry, yes. However, for the words and venom he spewed, he clearly has a lot of hatred in his heart and IMO, that cannot be rationalized. Anyone who attempts to make it sound like he just made an error in judgement just DOES NOT GET IT. Those words came from some place and were not just plucked out of thin air. One poster tried to draw a comparison to how a 5th grader felt when he/she was called pond scum. I mean, come on people! Do you not realize how insulting that is???? If you have never experienced being called this word loaded with hate or watched people you love being called this name, then you can not TRULY understand the pain and hurt it causes.

Edited to add - I didn't mean to quote myself. I was responding to wind's post about the meaning of my original post.

Thank you for your post. I agree that Richards engaged in hate speech for all the world to see.

 

[julianne]

I'd say it was about as equally senseless and offensive as your point blank assertion that Mel Brooks and Michael Richards are racists.

Uhhh, I believe it was Mel GIBSON who Peter was referring to...

AND, they PROVED to the WHOLE WORLD that they are racists. Any point blank assertions about being racist came from ol' Mel & Michael themselves. Have you not been made aware of what they said? Maybe you should go back to the beginning of this thread to see the video of Michael Richards. If you can watch that and tell me that man isn't a racist, well....never mind.