Michelle Young. Murdered Pregnant Mom, NC Part 13

[raisincharlie]

I hope you are right about that RC, I always thought the reason they labelled it as non-random was based on forensic psychology and crime profiling; that since Cassie was left unharmed it was likely whomever killed Michelle wanted Cassidy left unharmed. Do we know if it is a fact that JayJay called LF as well, looking for Mere? So much has been said, I can't keep up. Also, over at the dark side I read that someone said JayJay swallowed a friend's wedding band as a joke? Sick! Does anyone know anything more about that?

I really hope we see an arrest this week, you know they say MARCH comes in like a LION...so maybe, maybe that will be true in terms of some explosive events in the very near future.

Na na na na, na na na na, HEY JAY JAY you're going BYE BYE!!! (I HOPE)

Mama-cita,

From the time I concluded JY was involved I believed he cleaned himself up at the house. I believe that JY would have gotten clean clothes from the closet and dresser after he showered - I believe there was evidence of this in the house when the police entered. As far as non random, recall there were no signs of forced entry, there was a baby left unharmed and an old dog in that house. Who ever entered that house was only interested in things upstairs as Michelle's purse with cell phone inside was found in the kitchen. The personal nature of her death was also a part of this equation I think. I also think there is some connection with the wedding photos - I don't think they were collected to identify other persons as LE collected dvds, camcorders, cameras and all sorts of items that could be used for identification of persons - I just think there is something about the wedding photos that tells a tale...JMO.

RC

 

[raisincharlie]

WOW, I didn't know whose post to quote, but I think this is the winner!

IMO, there are a lot of receipts missing. Not just gas, but like someone said food. That tall drink of water isn't an "air plant", I guarandamntee you that.

I firmly believe that the reason that it IS taking so long, is not only the fact that the Youngs had a recent party in that house and that they were entertainers of a sort, but....they were also NOT the original owners of the home. That leaves a lot of possibilities. Could certainly confound the retrieval of evidence from the tub traps, for example.

The simple LACK of foreign DNA following that brutal beating, will IMO seal Jason's fate.

Cheers to All!

I agree with you about there being some receipts missing or else JY paid for some things with cash, such as more gas and fast food perhaps. I think the lack of foreign DNA, if that is the case, will also tell a tale, just not sure which tale yet. There is no doubt since JY lived in the house that the scene is more complicated but I do believe that LE will come up with something that places JY in the middle of the crime scene. JMO

 

[Samiya]

I've been coming here almost three months and after being registered a month, have finally gotten the nerve to post a reply.:woohoo:

I too, would like to say thank you to all who share at ws. Recently, I found myself over a courtv trying to sift through the posts for updated information. It didn't take me long to realize how crazy it is over there, and how thankful I am for ws. I look forward to posting more of my opinions here soon.

Welcome to you

This is your captain speaking....Please make sure to fasten your seatbelt before take off. We may experience some turbulence

....maybe I should open a thread at ctv with that one, lmao.

Sami

 

[Samiya]

Just going through the 'non-random' aspects with respect to what has been reported so far. I'll list RaisinCharlie's then add mine as I know them to be

Charlie:
1 No sign of forced entry
2 Cassidy unharmed
3 Old dog in house
4 Only interested in upstairs
5 Michelle's purse left alone
6 Cell phone also left in purse, untouched.
7 Charlie's opinion in relation to 'personal crime'.

Samiya's additions: add to Charlies above.

1 No signs of attempted entry at any other entry point of house
2 No broken windows/door glass
3 No signs of burglary, attempted or otherwise.
4 My opinion agreeing with Charlie's "personal crime'....Victims attack injuries are all above normal shoulder level position. Includes the cresent mark and bruising on upper arm. This area would have been elevated above normal shoulder level by Michelle hunching her head into her neck while covering her head. When upper arm put into that position in my 3D program, the direction of the wound corresponds with the direction of the wounds on the side of the head.
5 No pedophiliac attacks evident on child, nor kidnapping.
6 No signs of attempted or successful sexual assault on victim.
7 Victim was killed in bedroom, a personal area of the home.
8 Attempted strangulation manually before weapon attack.
9 Intention to finish what the strangulation attempt did not achieve.
10 Strong possibility of light on in the bedroom shown by the concentration of groupings of injuries. The injuries made by the weapon were definitely not random, which they would have been had the scene been in darkness.

The above shows that the intent was to kill Michelle.

Anybody else like to add anything?

Sami

 

[strach304]

Hi everyone :blowkiss: Trying to catch up some as you know I've been at the hospital a lot with Dad. He's doing really well and my brother went home. First off anything new or different come out for consideration?

Wanted to comment on the not random aspect since that's something I paid close attention to in the beginning of this case. The shower, etc. and evidence of an attempted clean up we guessed at the very beginning without any info from LE or so-called insiders. We led with that as a strong possibility for why LE would be able to determine that it was non random so soon and for the most part a stranger wouldn't do that. The Harvey's in Richmond was the case that stuck out to me for comparrison where LE got it wrong. That case takes me to the subject now of cash and jewlery.

We've all heard JTF state jewlery was gone and the drawers. Then they stated cash but LE is saying no robbery. I think LE has all of that as evidence and they don't know that because Jason isn't talking to LE. It's possible the drawers were taken for fingerprints or blood, etc. Just as likely the jewelry and cash taken by LE to show there were valuables that were not touched. The case in Florida with a little girl named Coral Rose was stated that LE took the fathers tip money so it happens. With the Harveys they were alive and able to hand over valuables that weren't obvious to LE. Makes sense to me why JTF's info doesn't jive with LE's statements.

 

[strach304]

:laugh:

Welcome to you

This is your captain speaking....Please make sure to fasten your seatbelt before take off. We may experience some turbulence

....maybe I should open a thread at ctv with that one, lmao.

Sami

That's cute Sami. Welcome Nrthgamom

 

[Barney Fife]

Bingo !

If Amanda Lamb is correct , and I will take her word over RPD, the first premium on that insurance was paid in April - when Michelle was pregnant with the second child. I think the baby dying after the car wreck was what fueled the majority of problems by the way. I think JY was screwing around while driving - nothing intentional but the accident could have been avoided. JMO

Now Rasin, why are you questioning the word of my good friend RPD ? I think Ms. Lamb is very credible also. However, I do not recall RPD saying anything about the time the insurance was purchased, just that it was $1,000,000 term insurance. I'm with you, if Amanda said the first premium was due in April then it probably was.

 

[raisincharlie]

Now Rasin, why are you questioning the word of my good friend RPD ? I think Ms. Lamb is very credible also. However, I do not recall RPD saying anything about the time the insurance was purchased, just that it was $1,000,000 term insurance. I'm with you, if Amanda said the first premium was due in April then it probably was.

Because your good friend RPD said it was purchased 3 months before Michelle's death. April would be 7 months before Michelle's death. This also seems like an appropriate time to do so given that Michelle was pregnant. Since your good freind's posts have been removed, of course I can't prove this, however in my notebook....:crazy:

 

[close_enough]

Now Rasin, why are you questioning the word of my good friend RPD ? I think Ms. Lamb is very credible also. However, I do not recall RPD saying anything about the time the insurance was purchased, just that it was $1,000,000 term insurance. I'm with you, if Amanda said the first premium was due in April then it probably was.

am i losing it?...i thought RPD WAS Barney

 

[close_enough]

If Michelle was beat as brutally as we've been led to believe and IF the perp took a shower before leaving the house, imho, there is probably more than just the usual shower type dna stuff found in those drain pipes. With the force that splattered the walls and ceiling (IIRC correctly), there's no way some type of 'human flesh' particles wouldn't have gotten on the perp.
I'm with you bigfish, in that I believe part of the delay in an arrest has to do with the crime lab.

FWIW, I know somone who works in a crime lab. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to get it backed up. You open a specimen thinking it 'one item,' it turns into several and you can only process so much during a session. I would imagine, at times, it's kind of like opening a can of worms that you thought contained just one worm, but there's multiple fellas slithering and sliding all over the place, and each one has to be tested on its own. :doh:

Silly analogy, but works for me, since I'm not a scientific person.

JMHO
fran

dang Fran..i hadn't thought of that, but good point...it's definately possible

 

[Samiya]

am i losing it?...i thought RPD WAS Barney

You aren't losing it, lol.

Yes Barney is RPD.

Sami

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

RC and other awesome WS'ers :blowkiss:

Mr DNA came to visit me today...I have to admit it was tough trying to explain the few details I actually could tell him, LOL. Basically had to explain she was beaten to death in the master bedroom, daughter found hours later with at least some blood on her. His first comment was, "oh, there had to be a lot of blood in that house." I had to tell him that heck, we don't know! LOL. (I think he thinks I'm nuts for doing this online after work, etc. Great.)

We talked a little about DNA evidence in a shower, but I have to admit it sounded pretty weak, since we don't know if the suspect was injured and bleeding at all. Really, unless there was a hair left or something else (like a few of you above are mentioning, disgusting to think about brain matter attached to things, etc.) that could get stuck in the crevice, blood evidence would be hard to get. He said it's really got to be something that gets stuck somewhere in the drain.

The greatest info I walked away with was: 1) his experience leads him to believe that well over 1/2 of those 13 days that the Crime Scene employees were there, was spent on crime scene re-enactment, rather than collecting of physical evidence. He said the collection of physical evidence itself shouldn't have taken more than 2 days ("unless their work day is limited to 8 hrs/days.") He pictured blood spatter experts and others in there reworking the crime scene, etc.; and 2) he did not feel that "just because" no one has been arrested after 4 months doesn't necessarily mean they have no suspect. He said he wouldn't be surprised if all lab results weren't back in yet (of course, he doesn't work in NC, but he knows his Forensics buddies in several other states all have the same time issues.) Basically, that the backlogs, etc. are common and things just take time. He said if he were a suspect, he wouldn't be breathing easier after a 4-month mark, LOL.

So, that was much of my talk with him. Oh, one other thing, just trivia for us in our quest for further understanding blood evidence and its use in crime investigations. A blood sample can't be entered into CODIS with any of a victim's identifiers included (that's not verbatim from him, but the gist of it). A victim's sample must be excluded before something can be entered into CODIS. Interesting (hmmm, and time consuming).

P.S. Was the type of hi-tech equipment that was rumored to have been brought in ever identified? I didn't know what to ask him about, LOL. We talked about the electro-static machine, but that's not really "new" per se. I think he said he's been using that since at least 2002. So, what was it, anyone know? I could then go back and ask him.

 

[Samiya]

**mwah** DD.

Thank you for all your hard yakka! And some DNA guy would get a big block of choccie if I knew it'd make it over without creating a huge mess, lol. Am trying to picture your friend hunkered over a 1 kilo block of chocgold growling at anyone who came near!

Hugs
Sami

 

[scandi]

Now Rasin, why are you questioning the word of my good friend RPD ? I think Ms. Lamb is very credible also. However, I do not recall RPD saying anything about the time the insurance was purchased, just that it was $1,000,000 term insurance. I'm with you, if Amanda said the first premium was due in April then it probably was.

Hi ya Barney! What I remember is that your good pal RPD stated that he had talked to the agent who sold him the policy and it was about a month before her death, I think, when it was written. So whenever I hear 'April' stated now, I almost want to say, Hey, call my friend Barney, and he'll give you the facts!

I just tell 'em my Barney is a local yokel and is a straight shootin son of a gun! YaYa And whatever RPD tells him has got to be on the money honey!~

Scandi

 

[scandi]

RC and other awesome WS'ers :blowkiss:

Mr DNA came to visit me today...I have to admit it was tough trying to explain the few details I actually could tell him, LOL. Basically had to explain she was beaten to death in the master bedroom, daughter found hours later with at least some blood on her. His first comment was, "oh, there had to be a lot of blood in that house." I had to tell him that heck, we don't know! LOL. (I think he thinks I'm nuts for doing this online after work, etc. Great.)

We talked a little about DNA evidence in a shower, but I have to admit it sounded pretty weak, since we don't know if the suspect was injured and bleeding at all. Really, unless there was a hair left or something else (like a few of you above are mentioning, disgusting to think about brain matter attached to things, etc.) that could get stuck in the crevice, blood evidence would be hard to get. He said it's really got to be something that gets stuck somewhere in the drain.

The greatest info I walked away with was: 1) his experience leads him to believe that well over 1/2 of those 13 days that the Crime Scene employees were there, was spent on crime scene re-enactment, rather than collecting of physical evidence. He said the collection of physical evidence itself shouldn't have taken more than 2 days ("unless their work day is limited to 8 hrs/days.") He pictured blood spatter experts and others in there reworking the crime scene, etc.; and 2) he did not feel that "just because" no one has been arrested after 4 months doesn't necessarily mean they have no suspect. He said he wouldn't be surprised if all lab results weren't back in yet (of course, he doesn't work in NC, but he knows his Forensics buddies in several other states all have the same time issues.) Basically, that the backlogs, etc. are common and things just take time. He said if he were a suspect, he wouldn't be breathing easier after a 4-month mark, LOL.

So, that was much of my talk with him. Oh, one other thing, just trivia for us in our quest for further understanding blood evidence and its use in crime investigations. A blood sample can't be entered into CODIS with any of a victim's identifiers included (that's not verbatim from him, but the gist of it). A victim's sample must be excluded before something can be entered into CODIS. Interesting (hmmm, and time consuming).

P.S. Was the type of hi-tech equipment that was rumored to have been brought in ever identified? I didn't know what to ask him about, LOL. We talked about the electro-static machine, but that's not really "new" per se. I think he said he's been using that since at least 2002. So, what was it, anyone know? I could then go back and ask him.

Hi Sweet Dawgie, and you are for all that dedication to the cause you are giving. Here is my thanks you, a big Krams {hug}.

There is a relatively new machine that does the diagram of a crime scene taking everything in from prints, spatter to the body in its found position. I saw it on one of the new Forensic Files shows.

Scandi



PS: So happy to be home to see whaz up tonight that I'm feeling like a schoolchild whose mother tells her she doesn't have to eat her hard boiled eggs for breakfast. When I was a little girl I always wrapped mine in a napkin and hid them in the piano bench before going off to school!

 

[scandi]

If Michelle was beat as brutally as we've been led to believe and IF the perp took a shower before leaving the house, imho, there is probably more than just the usual shower type dna stuff found in those drain pipes. With the force that splattered the walls and ceiling (IIRC correctly), there's no way some type of 'human flesh' particles wouldn't have gotten on the perp.

I'm with you bigfish, in that I believe part of the delay in an arrest has to do with the crime lab.

FWIW, I know somone who works in a crime lab. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to get it backed up. You open a specimen thinking it 'one item,' it turns into several and you can only process so much during a session. I would imagine, at times, it's kind of like opening a can of worms that you thought contained just one worm, but there's multiple fellas slithering and sliding all over the place, and each one has to be tested on its own. :doh:

Silly analogy, but works for me, since I'm not a scientific person.

JMHO
fran

Hi Fran, I wish we could see a criminologists report on what he/she thinks happened from studying the crime scene as beheld by forensic investigators as they walked into that bedroom.

Dr Baden kind of gave me a mind-set that might not have been accurate of what really happened. His comments that night showed he was not 'up' on the investigation with all his pauses, trying to find the word gnurling!

He said the blows to the back of the head were so severe they disrupted the tissue beneath the skull, and to me that says brain matter. To take it a step further, I am wondering if there was a back spattering of brain matter onto the killer and into the area behind the head. That could be one thing found in a trap maybe, although I don't know how long it would be stable and survive the elements of water, air and heat.

Sami, I know you have a solid knowledge of many things in this area, and wonder if you have any thoughts on this possiblity. How fragile is that brain tissue? If a piece landed on the carpet, would it disolve in a few hours or get harder and shrink up? Somehow I think it is very delicate and might dwindle down to almost nothingness. Scandi

 

[raisincharlie]

**mwah** DD.

Thank you for all your hard yakka! And some DNA guy would get a big block of choccie if I knew it'd make it over without creating a huge mess, lol. Am trying to picture your friend hunkered over a 1 kilo block of chocgold growling at anyone who came near!

Hugs
Sami

Maybe he would like some Vegimite (sp) ! Sami, where have you been? I'm here talking to myself - need some company !

 

[concernedperson]

Maybe he would like some Vegimite (sp) ! Sami, where have you been? I'm here talking to myself - need some company !

I read everyday RC. You aren't alone just that ths case isn't moving and I don't have anything significant to add but I am watching.

 

[raisincharlie]

Just going through the 'non-random' aspects with respect to what has been reported so far. I'll list RaisinCharlie's then add mine as I know them to be

Charlie:
1 No sign of forced entry
2 Cassidy unharmed
3 Old dog in house
4 Only interested in upstairs
5 Michelle's purse left alone
6 Cell phone also left in purse, untouched.
7 Charlie's opinion in relation to 'personal crime'.

Samiya's additions: add to Charlies above.

1 No signs of attempted entry at any other entry point of house
2 No broken windows/door glass
3 No signs of burglary, attempted or otherwise.
4 My opinion agreeing with Charlie's "personal crime'....Victims attack injuries are all above normal shoulder level position. Includes the cresent mark and bruising on upper arm. This area would have been elevated above normal shoulder level by Michelle hunching her head into her neck while covering her head. When upper arm put into that position in my 3D program, the direction of the wound corresponds with the direction of the wounds on the side of the head.
5 No pedophiliac attacks evident on child, nor kidnapping.
6 No signs of attempted or successful sexual assault on victim.
7 Victim was killed in bedroom, a personal area of the home.
8 Attempted strangulation manually before weapon attack.
9 Intention to finish what the strangulation attempt did not achieve.
10 Strong possibility of light on in the bedroom shown by the concentration of groupings of injuries. The injuries made by the weapon were definitely not random, which they would have been had the scene been in darkness.

The above shows that the intent was to kill Michelle.

Anybody else like to add anything?

Sami

I think this covers it pretty well. I think your point #4 says pretty much everything with respect to this crime - focused - very focused. It also allows me to rule out Meredith all the way around based solely on the location of the blows. This was someone who wanted Michelle silenced - if Meredith had done this - IMO the majority of those blows would have been aimed directly at the face for instance with respect to sibling rivalry being the motive. Yes I have lost my mind but I call it as I see it. This focused attack also rules out in my mind a hit man and an intruder - neither of which are going to focus with such specificity - they are going to go wherever necessary to finish the job and it wouldn't be grouped in this fashion - again JMO.

Thanks for the brain jog !

RC

 

[raisincharlie]

RC and other awesome WS'ers :blowkiss:

Mr DNA came to visit me today...I have to admit it was tough trying to explain the few details I actually could tell him, LOL. Basically had to explain she was beaten to death in the master bedroom, daughter found hours later with at least some blood on her. His first comment was, "oh, there had to be a lot of blood in that house." I had to tell him that heck, we don't know! LOL. (I think he thinks I'm nuts for doing this online after work, etc. Great.)

We talked a little about DNA evidence in a shower, but I have to admit it sounded pretty weak, since we don't know if the suspect was injured and bleeding at all. Really, unless there was a hair left or something else (like a few of you above are mentioning, disgusting to think about brain matter attached to things, etc.) that could get stuck in the crevice, blood evidence would be hard to get. He said it's really got to be something that gets stuck somewhere in the drain.

The greatest info I walked away with was: 1) his experience leads him to believe that well over 1/2 of those 13 days that the Crime Scene employees were there, was spent on crime scene re-enactment, rather than collecting of physical evidence. He said the collection of physical evidence itself shouldn't have taken more than 2 days ("unless their work day is limited to 8 hrs/days.") He pictured blood spatter experts and others in there reworking the crime scene, etc.; and 2) he did not feel that "just because" no one has been arrested after 4 months doesn't necessarily mean they have no suspect. He said he wouldn't be surprised if all lab results weren't back in yet (of course, he doesn't work in NC, but he knows his Forensics buddies in several other states all have the same time issues.) Basically, that the backlogs, etc. are common and things just take time. He said if he were a suspect, he wouldn't be breathing easier after a 4-month mark, LOL.

So, that was much of my talk with him. Oh, one other thing, just trivia for us in our quest for further understanding blood evidence and its use in crime investigations. A blood sample can't be entered into CODIS with any of a victim's identifiers included (that's not verbatim from him, but the gist of it). A victim's sample must be excluded before something can be entered into CODIS. Interesting (hmmm, and time consuming).

P.S. Was the type of hi-tech equipment that was rumored to have been brought in ever identified? I didn't know what to ask him about, LOL. We talked about the electro-static machine, but that's not really "new" per se. I think he said he's been using that since at least 2002. So, what was it, anyone know? I could then go back and ask him.

DD,

Thanks very much for asking these questions - I hope he doesn't think you are nuts - very far from the truth - again thanks :blowkiss: Please let him know how much we appreciate the information.

As to the machine - no it has never really been identified. We have done some speculating and Chico came up with a link for a laser system called TracER that apparently gives better results than luminol for finding non-visible evidence such as finger prints, foot prints and blood trails. I'll go back and get the link and post it as an ETA to this. Interesting machine !

RC

ETA - here is the link:

http://www.coherentinc.com/Downloads/EFP%206%20Prf%201%20web.pdf