Michelle Young, pregnant mom, murdered Part 18

[scandi]

Amazing about NC law. it gives the defense a true advantage which seems unfair at the least.

I don't think they would share that with the public. And we don't even know if it is indeed true, or if LE knows about it yet if it is true. I'm sure they would be right on the horn to Smith, but if it is the sheets and socks that were left behind for some reason on purpose, it wouldn't matter anyway, right?

We can't believe LE didn't take those bloody articles and we have not even heard what happened to them!

 

[raisincharlie]

Amazing about NC law. it gives the defense a true advantage which seems unfair at the least.

I don't think they would share that with the public. And we don't even know if it is indeed true, or if LE knows about it yet if it is true. I'm sure they would be right on the horn to Smith, but if it is the sheets and socks that were left behind for some reason on purpose, it wouldn't matter anyway, right?

We can't believe LE didn't take those bloody articles and we have not even heard what happened to them!

Scandi,

I'll pose the same question to you I have posed earlier to someone else, which of course was not answered.

What if the bed was still made up when LE entered the scene ? What if the blood leaked through the bed spread into the sheets - are the sheets important ? Why take them, wouldn't the bed spread be more important ? Have any of the supposed insiders who went in the bedroom after LE even mentioned a bed spread - NO.

You are right - we don't know if it is true or not.

 

[scandi]

Scandi, I think the whole point in this particular issue where a family member may have found something as Jake said they didn't know it was important or thought it wasn't because LE did not collect it. Therefore, LE is imcompetent so what else did they miss? Strange to me how six months later they realize it is important. Can't be the package of condoms because they were listed in a warrant so we know LE took those. That ties in with no SA test done being made into a major issue, Now what if those prints are what's not id'd? Major boo boo even if it is just the store clerks.

It isn't that what was found or discovered yielded anything of evidentiary value it's that it wasn't collected in the first place by LE. They really aren't in a position to say or do anything to whoever found whatever as long as that person is saying they had no idea it was important but LE should've known, right?

I don't think that is the case in Ca. When the defense is allowed to go into a crime scene, if they find something it can not be handled or disturbed in any way and notice has to be given immediately to the DA. The law is the opposite here almost. I see your point about showing LE as negligent and they should have known. It almost makes me cringe to think of sloppy CSI workers.

For all we know JY had a nooner one day and left a condum wrapper in a wastebasket in the bathroom!

 

[Barney Fife]

Scandi, I think the whole point in this particular issue where a family member may have found something as Jake said they didn't know it was important or thought it wasn't because LE did not collect it. Therefore, LE is imcompetent so what else did they miss? Strange to me how six months later they realize it is important.Can't be the package of condoms because they were listed in a warrant so we know LE took those. That ties in with no SA test done being made into a major issue, Now what if those prints are what's not id'd? Major boo boo even if it is just the store clerks.

quote]
I was out of town all last week and missed the discussion on the 'condoms'. I assume this is just another mountain tale ?

 

[spring]

I was out of town all last week and missed the discussion on the 'condoms'. I assume this is just another mountain tale ?

well it was one of those that you had to finish the end of the sentences, if that tells ya what you need to know

 

[Scout]

Scandi, I think the whole point in this particular issue where a family member may have found something as Jake said they didn't know it was important or thought it wasn't because LE did not collect it. Therefore, LE is imcompetent so what else did they miss? Strange to me how six months later they realize it is important.Can't be the package of condoms because they were listed in a warrant so we know LE took those. That ties in with no SA test done being made into a major issue, Now what if those prints are what's not id'd? Major boo boo even if it is just the store clerks.

I was out of town all last week and missed the discussion on the 'condoms'. I assume this is just another mountain tale ?

Jake says that he knows that a box of unused condoms was taken by investigators during the search of the house. There's at least one inventory list we haven't seen regarding the search of the crime scene.

 

[strach304]

I don't think that is the case in Ca. When the defense is allowed to go into a crime scene, if they find something it can not be handled or disturbed in any way and notice has to be given immediately to the DA. The law is the opposite here almost. I see your point about showing LE as negligent and they should have known. It almost makes me cringe to think of sloppy CSI workers.

For all we know JY had a nooner one day and left a condum wrapper in a wastebasket in the bathroom!

What I gathered from Jake when he started the material witness topic and a family member of Jason's finding something at the time they didn't think was important was his way of informing us as to why it wasn't turned over to LE right away but much later. I still have the same question though as to how they came to the realization that it is indeed important or for that matter did LE overlook something or maybe it isn't important afterall.

ETA: Would that law apply to a family member or just to the defense team? Be it lawyer or investigator?

 

[jake]

What I gathered from Jake when he started the material witness topic and a family member of Jason's finding something at the time they didn't think was important was his way of informing us as to why it wasn't turned over to LE right away but much later. I still have the same question though as to how they came to the realization that it is indeed important or for that matter did LE overlook something or maybe it isn't important afterall.

ETA: Would that law apply to a family member or just to the defense team? Be it lawyer or investigator?

ctv posters told me. Really. When jtf and I talked about the discovery of the bloody socks, almost unanimously posters said they weren't important. If they were important LE would have taken them.

Wonder how that would stand up in court: "Your Honor, CTV experts told me the socks were useless as evidence. So I threw them into the trash."

--Jake

 

[scandi]

Scandi,

I'll pose the same question to you I have posed earlier to someone else, which of course was not answered.

What if the bed was still made up when LE entered the scene ? What if the blood leaked through the bed spread into the sheets - are the sheets important ? Why take them, wouldn't the bed spread be more important ? Have any of the supposed insiders who went in the bedroom after LE even mentioned a bed spread - NO.

You are right - we don't know if it is true or not.

Gotta agree with you Charlie. I always thought the bloody items were more of a red herring. Now I wonder about the socks, but it could be there was very little blood on any of these things. When you think of how much blood there was everywhere, the worst crime scene in Raleigh in 20+ years, it almost boggles the mind.

 

[scandi]

well it was one of those that you had to finish the end of the sentences, if that tells ya what you need to know

 

[Barney Fife]

ctv posters told me. Really. When jtf and I talked about the discovery of the bloody socks, almost unanimously posters said they weren't important. If they were important LE would have taken them.

Wonder how that would stand up in court: "Your Honor, CTV experts told me the socks were useless as evidence. So I threw them into the trash."

--Jake

JTF stopped posting before gojo first appeared. What conversation about the socks are you talking about Jake ?

JTF did not mention bloody socks left in the bathroom.

 

[jake]

JTF stopped posting before gojo first appeared. What conversation about the socks are you talking about Jake ?

JTF did not mention bloody socks left in the bathroom.

Yep, I picked up where jtf left off. The socks were mentioned early on.

--Jake

 

[strach304]

I have to agree with Barney Jake. I followed JTF's posts and she did not bring up the socks that I ever saw, just the footprints.

Throwing them in the trash? Does that mean they are not recoverable? Are we talking about a material witness testifying that they were there but that person thought they were unimportant since LE didn't collect them? I don't see that person getting in trouble over it. I would hope not.

 

[jilly]

Wow Jilly !

Do you really think the entire case hinges on what the ME did or did not do ? Do you not think that Michelle's clothes will add some independent significance to this? What if the ME had indeed done a rape kit and it was negative - does it change the truth ?

I know what you are saying but, I'm not ready to think this case has been denied because of this - it is for one thing, correctable. second - the tooth - you know as well as I do that the source of that has been identified by now. If it turns out to be Michelle's - hmmm it really isn't evidence is it ?

I'm willing to continue thinking there is more to this case than what we know. Call me an optimist but the reality is there is more evidence than we know about. How strong how weak we don't know. Yes a defense lawyer is going to try to make everything look bad - does it change the truth ? I wouldn't be surprised to see the DA call some people that aren't thinking they will be called - there is lots of explaining to do on both sides I think.

You know.....when I was creating my post I almost asked for you or someone else to come along and shake some optimism into me.

I just think what the ME did not do (follow instructions for the rape kit)is very significant. On the face of it, it appears to be incompetence. On top of it we have a 3rd year student performing the autopsy and a possibly an incomplete AR.

As far as the tooth goes, I really didn't consider the evidentiary value. I was simply attributing this to sloppiness on the part of the CSI team. Remember we were told that they were going over this scene with a fine tooth comb. If I was on a jury and heard that a tooth was found after the crime scene had been released I would be wondering what else they missed and I would be listening very carefully with respect to their procedure in collecting evidence. I hope this tooth thing is an isolated incident on their part because I believe the Defense will scrutinize everything they did.

I'm ticked off with these 2, silly mistakes. I think it may have unnecessarily opened a can of worms for the prosecution.

As far as the rape kit coming back negative, no it wouldn't change the truth but at least LE & the prosecution would have the bonus of knowing that it was negative. That's why they ordered it in the first place imo.

I think Michelle's clothing would have some significance but think it could be overshadowed by the omission of the Rape Kit.

I'm still concerned about this 6 month delay as well. I believe that all of their testing results must be back by now.

 

[raisincharlie]

Gotta agree with you Charlie. I always thought the bloody items were more of a red herring. Now I wonder about the socks, but it could be there was very little blood on any of these things. When you think of how much blood there was everywhere, the worst crime scene in Raleigh in 20+ years, it almost boggles the mind.

Ya know Scandi - it was pretty cool that night - Michelle could have been tucked way down in those covers - but the bed spread would still be the top layer and the layer exposed to the killer. I just see all this concern about bloody sheets as a red herring as well. Another thing, there was no mention of pillows - if you recall - Meredith says in the 911 tape she touched a pillow. So you know that would have been collected as well. The socks, again I think there may be more than one explanation for why they may have been bloody and more than one reason why they were not collected, if they exist. Again as cool as it was - what if Michelle put two pairs of socks on Cassidy before bedtime - would the inner socks being bloody be worth collecting ? There could be very simple totally innocuous reasons.

 

[raisincharlie]

You know.....when I was creating my post I almost asked for you or someone else to come along and shake some optimism into me.

I just think what the ME did not do (follow instructions for the rape kit)is very significant. On the face of it, it appears to be incompetence. On top of it we have a 3rd year student performing the autopsy and a possibly an incomplete AR.

As far as the tooth goes, I really didn't consider the evidentiary value. I was simply attributing this to sloppiness on the part of the CSI team. Remember we were told that they were going over this scene with a fine tooth comb. If I was on a jury and heard that a tooth was found after the crime scene had been released I would be wondering what else they missed and I would be listening very carefully with respect to their procedure in collecting evidence. I hope this tooth thing is an isolated incident on their part because I believe the Defense will scrutinize everything they did.

I'm ticked off with these 2, silly mistakes. I think it may have unnecessarily opened a can of worms for the prosecution.

As far as the rape kit coming back negative, no it wouldn't change the truth but at least LE & the prosecution would have the bonus of knowing that it was negative. That's why they ordered it in the first place imo.

I think Michelle's clothing would have some significance but think it could be overshadowed by the omission of the Rape Kit.

I'm still concerned about this 6 month delay as well. I believe that all of their testing results must be back by now.

I understand Jilly but lets think about it. The Me, Butts has claimed the body was examined for signs of sexual assault and none were noted. The ME however does not say what all that examination entailed - we don't know and it may be more detailed than just looking. Maybe - maybe not.

Now if samples of Michelles clothing were sent out for testing looking for very specific markers in relation to sexual assault, there are two reasons to ponder that it never occured. Add in the crime scene photos taken by LE showing the arrangement of her clothing - a third reason to ponder. Then there is always the possibility of exhumation if the DA feels it cannot be overcome.

My suspicion is that this was discussed not long ago with the DA and it is possible that more specific testing of the clothing was requested. Maybe with some luck the samples were sent to a contract lab to avoid the SBI lengthy delay...it is possible the results are back. I do think this has been part of the delay but not all of it.

I agree, it doesn't "look" real well but the look certainly does not alter the truth. Ms. Holt is very experienced, I suspect her plans will be thoroughly laid before she proceeds. In my mind it is reasonable to figure that CCBI may well have been more focused on collecting more significant items of evidence. If the tooth is Michelle's, it really isn't evidence.

I can hear it now, 19 officers in the house for 13 days they should have found the tooth. The scene logs will tell how many officers were actually there and exactly when they were there. Add in that CCBI was awaiting specialized equipment - is 13 days that much - how long was actual investigation delayed waiting for this equipment. There is much we don't know isn't there ?

 

[Beyond Belief]

Talking ab t this on Fox now.

 

[Barney Fife]

Marlon w/ N&O is clueless.....what a joke.

 

[jilly]

I understand Jilly but lets think about it. The Me, Butts has claimed the body was examined for signs of sexual assault and none were noted. The ME however does not say what all that examination entailed - we don't know and it may be more detailed than just looking. Maybe - maybe not. Yes, I read what Butts said. So strange that there is no mention of this in AR. You'd think if they were checking for something specific, they'd mention if they found it or not.

Now if samples of Michelles clothing were sent out for testing looking for very specific markers in relation to sexual assault, there are two reasons to ponder that it never occured. Add in the crime scene photos taken by LE showing the arrangement of her clothing - a third reason to ponder. Then there is always the possibility of exhumation if the DA feels it cannot be overcome. Possibly a 4th reason - male pubic hairs on Michelle.

My suspicion is that this was discussed not long ago with the DA and it is possible that more specific testing of the clothing was requested. Maybe with some luck the samples were sent to a contract lab to avoid the SBI lengthy delay...it is possible the results are back. I do think this has been part of the delay but not all of it. Good point.

I agree, it doesn't "look" real well but the look certainly does not alter the truth. Ms. Holt is very experienced, I suspect her plans will be thoroughly laid before she proceeds. In my mind it is reasonable to figure that CCBI may well have been more focused on collecting more significant items of evidence. If the tooth is Michelle's, it really isn't evidence. I agree. The tooth has no evidentiary value. Also let me tell ya, if jy is ever charged I will be doing a little jig because I'll know Becky has her ducks in a row.

I can hear it now, 19 officers in the house for 13 days they should have found the tooth. The scene logs will tell how many officers were actually there and exactly when they were there. Add in that CCBI was awaiting specialized equipment - is 13 days that much - how long was actual investigation delayed waiting for this equipment. There is much we don't know isn't there ? Another good point about waiting for the equipment.

Yup...I agree - there is so much we don't know and because of this I will continue to give LE the benefit of my doubt even though I may periodically suffer these little bouts of frustration! Thanks for responding RC. Appreciated.

 

[jilly]

Talking ab t this on Fox now.

Hi BB! Can you please tell us what they said?