MillardAir, the Legacy

[SnooperDuper]

Does anybody know if WM's execs had MRO expertise?

Sent using Tapatalk 2

JB had extensive experience with MRO's at an executive level and AS had sold MRO services before. I think, along with WM and DM, that was it for executives.

Then there were 3 more ex-Skyservice employees and another guy they had picked up, all maintenance workers. I think that was it for employees.

The sales guy (AS) probably was paid 100% commission plus expenses but the 5 maintenance guys would be invoicing for their time.

DM would have to hang around the order to sign any change orders - owner acknowledgement that there had had to be a deviation from the construction plan. To kill time he probably brought the truck up there so he would have something to do, if he had to be there. And so, his friends would come and find him there.

 

[SnooperDuper]

And there was one more exec, RK, who is listed as a contact on the MillardAir webpage and worked for MA 2012-2013. He lists his time with MA on his LinkedIn profile as working for 'Aviation co.'.

So, 5 execs, 4 employees

 

[Snoofo]

The top three reasons I could see the Region/Airport giving to terminate the lease is either the use issue or possibly non-payment of rent or any of the extra annual or periodic fees that occur and are set out in the lease (also included in the sample lease). They may have even tried to terminate based on the MSM reportings of illegal activity (chopshop), as that would be just cause to terminate just about any lease, but without an arrest or conviction, or even proof the tenant was aware of the illegality of it, that would definitely be contested by the tenant's counsel. JMO.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[SnooperDuper]

The top three reasons I could see the Region/Airport giving to terminate the lease is either the use issue or possibly non-payment of rent or any of the extra annual or periodic fees that occur and are set out in the lease (also included in the sample lease). They may have even tried to terminate based on the MSM reportings of illegal activity (chopshop), as that would be just cause to terminate just about any lease, but without an arrest or conviction, or even proof the tenant was aware of the illegality of it, that would definitely be contested by the tenant's counsel. JMO.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

The rent's only $19k but they had a $372k bill for bringing services to their lot.

 

[Snoofo]

The rent's only $19k but they had a $372k bill for bringing services to their lot.

Yes and if that was an obligation under the lease (likely so) then it is also an event of default under the lease if not paid. So there is a good chance the sale of DM's real estate investments is an effort to pay some of these bills plus payments on the loan that was taken out when the hangar construction went over budget, and not just for paying DP's accounts.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[swedie]

I completely agree and have said the same thing myself all along.

Which begs the question...IF this is true, does the "chop shop" scenario not make a lot of sense? I believe he wanted that truck and against common belief he was not affluent enough to just write a cheque for what he wanted anymore.

JMO

I never thought there was any money to be had at the time of TB's murder. As we know, media and defense lawyers don't always tell or know the truth, nor get their facts straight before speaking. There was an absolute reason for them wanting a Dodge Ram. A Dodge Ram DM or MS could not afford, therefore they had to steal one. MOO.

Does anyone know what is going on at the hangar as of now? Is it being rented out or is it up for sale? I have to wonder how bills are being taken care of. Money from the sale of DM's properties will only stretch so far. Money from the sales of property on behalf of MB will only stretch so far. I guess DM or MB could file bankruptcy.

 

[Juballee]

I never thought there was any money to be had at the time of TB's murder. As we know, media and defense lawyers don't always tell or know the truth, nor get their facts straight before speaking. There was an absolute reason for them wanting a Dodge Ram. A Dodge Ram DM or MS could not afford, therefore they had to steal one. MOO.

Does anyone know what is going on at the hangar as of now? Is it being rented out or is it up for sale? I have to wonder how bills are being taken care of. Money from the sale of DM's properties will only stretch so far. Money from the sales of property on behalf of MB will only stretch so far. I guess DM or MB could file bankruptcy.

I agree that often the media does not know the truth or have the whole picture before they speak, and that can lead to a great deal of misunderstanding. I personally believe that is what the chop story was, the media running with a story before they had all the facts straight.

From what I recall, the chop shop story came out after the publication ban, which would make me think that it was not covered by the ban, so then why do we hear no further information about it? If there really were hundreds of stolen parts, I would think someone would have tracked down more than just Joe's buddy with the stolen motorcycle by now. I suspect there are no more stories about it being a chop shop because they might have figured out that there actually is no chop shop and therefore, no story there.

The chop shop stories came out at a time when many were uncertain and wondering why anyone would kill for a used truck when they could easily afford dozens, and the chop shop theory helped to cement a motive for the undecided at that time, in my opinion.

Without the chop shop theory, if we assume one of them wanted a truck but had to steal it because they could not afford it, wouldn't we have to assume that it was MS and not DM? Even if we somehow believe that DM's bank account was completely empty, wouldn't it be safer to assume that if he really wanted that particular truck that he could have bought one on credit or sold another vehicle or traded one in for it? It is not like he has a record of theft or any other crimes. It seems DM had access to many vehicles and if he needed another he had many ways to get one without stealing one, but can the same be said for MS?

 

[Archangel7]

DM was initially charged with theft over 5k, which was "changed to, upgraded to or added to" also include the 1st degree murder charge in May.

I can't see the Crown focusing on theft over 5k rather than a 1st degree murder charge. Maybe the theft progresses to numerous additional counts or perhaps it down grades to possession. Not really an issue either way currently, with a very active murder case proceeding.

The theft, being indictable, can be brought forth anytime. Plus I believe there are some nuances on trial, sentencing and even parole eligibility that make theft a lesser priority to pursue especially with 1st degree murder charge on the table.
Simply a crime against person vs a crime against property priority.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think the theft of the motorcycle was a lark. They drove by it en route to e.g., the nearby lcbo or beer store that would take them past where the trailer was located, they happened to be in the truck that had the hitch for the trailer, and they just picked it up and drove away. Who? DM was probably the driver of his own truck and we don't know who the other was. They probably thought it was hilarious.

How much money do you have to NOT have in order to turn to theft? It is a curiosity that shoplifters that are free of addiction tend to have enough money to pay for what they steal. Why steal then? This article suggests a number of reasons http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16469928

- control in the face of powerlessness
- maintain a lifestyle that they can no longer afford
- reaction to a loss and a need to fill a void
- rush or high brings emotional relief
- direct correlation between depression and shoplifting
- reaction to an unfair, personally meaning full loss

MS had some buddies that were in the business of bonking people on their head and taking their cell phones. Perhaps that is how things were to work out with TB: they would knock him out, and take the truck. However, they didn't bonk hard enough, TB began to fight, and things stopped going according to plan.

 

[cansleuther]

DM was probably the driver of his own truck and we don't know who the other was.

Except that the truck that stole the Harley was black and DM's truck is red.

The bike and trailer were taken from his back driveway in downtown Toronto in broad daylight last fall and witnesses reported seeing perhaps two men in a black truck back in and take it away.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/30/stolen-harley-found-on-property-of-accused-tim-bosma-killer

 

[SnooperDuper]

Except that the truck that stole the Harley was black and DM's truck is red.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/30/stolen-harley-found-on-property-of-accused-tim-bosma-killer

Just because the harley did end up in DM's hangar, and it was dark at the time, I would say the eyewitness was mistaken. That is also a possibility.

 

[cansleuther]

Just because the harley did end up in DM's hangar, and it was dark at the time, I would say the eyewitness was mistaken.

It wasn't stolen while it was dark out - it was in broad daylight.

The bike and trailer were taken from his back driveway in downtown Toronto in broad daylight last fall and witnesses reported seeing perhaps two men in a black truck back in and take it away.

There is also security camera footage in addition to the witnesses statements.

He managed to secure some surveillance video which he turned over to Toronto Police.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/30/stolen-harley-found-on-property-of-accused-tim-bosma-killer

 

[SnooperDuper]

It wasn't stolen while it was dark out - it was in broad daylight.

There is also security camera footage in addition to the witnesses statements.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/30/stolen-harley-found-on-property-of-accused-tim-bosma-killer

It could have been a friend of DM's in their truck. Too bad we know so little (specifically, who the trailer was registered to on the day it was stolen).

With this friend acting as role model, DM might have had the courage to attempt his own (first) theft.

I know that is a big leap, but DM would have had a lot of anger at this point. (theory) He saw his father's 'friends' collecting pay through WM's financial crisis, emptying WM's bank account and triggering a suicide...while there was nothing DM could have done about it (can't sue to recover money: everyone fulfilled their obligations). It's "just business". The antisocial act of stealing the truck could have been DM's revenge on society.

 

[Juballee]

It could have been a friend of DM's in their truck. Too bad we know so little (specifically, who the trailer was registered to on the day it was stolen).

With this friend acting as role model, DM might have had the courage to attempt his own (first) theft.

I know that is a big leap, but DM would have had a lot of anger at this point. (theory) He saw his father's 'friends' collecting pay through WM's financial crisis, emptying WM's bank account and triggering a suicide...while there was nothing DM could have done about it (can't sue to recover money: everyone fulfilled their obligations). It's "just business". The antisocial act of stealing the truck could have been DM's revenge on society.

No offence, but there are a lot of leaps of faith there: maybe it was a friend of his, maybe they were his role model, maybe he was angry...or maybe he had nothing to do with the theft of the Harley because the truck that was seen stealing it didn't match his, and maybe they didn't want to announce the name of the person that it was registered to after the theft because then it wouldn't work to stop people from wondering why someone would kill for a used truck when they can afford to buy dozens. Without the chop shop theory, we are back to DM not having any reasonable motive to kill TB. But that is just my opinion.

 

[SnooperDuper]

No offence, but there are a lot of leaps of faith there: maybe it was a friend of his, maybe they were his role model, maybe he was angry...or maybe he had nothing to do with the theft of the Harley because the truck that was seen stealing it didn't match his, and maybe they didn't want to announce the name of the person that it was registered to after the theft because then it wouldn't work to stop people from wondering why someone would kill for a used truck when they can afford to buy dozens. Without the chop shop theory, we are back to DM not having any reasonable motive to kill TB. But that is just my opinion.

To the contrary, I would say DM had motive to steal a truck. He wanted to compete in the Baha again this year, his fortune had been greatly diminished, and people do tend to steal things that they can afford.

What was the fallout of the MA failure? Are there outstanding loans in WM's name? When the dust settles, will DM be broke? If WM committed suicide, then things had to be pretty darned bad.

If DM was setting up a chop shop, it was very early on in that process. As far as I'm concerned the "1 to 10" stolen vehicles are TB's truck and the Harley.

It may be that he never intended to kill (or never intended MS to kill) but that is what happened. TB is attacked, he fails to submit, he fights...TB is killed when that never was the intention.

However that too sort of falls apart when you factor in the incinerator.

I have a feeling that the more we understand DM's financial situation, the more things will fit together.

 

[Archangel7]

A terribly unfortunate lad.......

DM's father commits suicide
DM's Ex "girlfriend" disappears after recent phone calls
DM fits previous description and MO used in TB truck theft/murder
DM last seen with TB, a murdered and burned victim
DM's farm reveals TB's burned remains
DM owns an incinerator
TB's stolen truck found at DM's mom's house in DM's trailer
DM's hangar contains stolen Harley and other stolen parts.
DM charged with theft over 5k and 1st degree murder

Not any one independent event is necessarily troubling, but the culmination of them certainly is.

 

[Juballee]

I wonder, when it comes time for trial, if there will be any concrete evidence or if it will all be the circumstantial things that are listed above. I sure would hate to see an innocent person be sentenced to life in prison just because they knew someone who disappeared, their father committed suicide, and they may have witnessed an accident as a child. From my understanding, usually when people are falsly convicted of a crime it is through circumstanstancial evidence and eyewitness testimony.

 

[Coldpizza]

Starting to get fftopic: here. Please try and post in the proper threads.

:tyou:

 

[Archangel7]

My thoughts on the MillardAir Legacy are mixed as are probably many who post. It's unfortunate to watch two families devastated in these events.

I witness it frequently in families much less famous/infamous. Seems there is often a progression of decay, mediocrity and apathy when older, more grounded family members pass.

It just appears there is a slight change in principles, ethics, priorities, etc. as generations turn into other generations.

It's a sobering event to look at what CM was challenged with in the industry and what accomplishments he has to his credit. The old "mover and shaker" that built a Legacy.

When it came to WM's turn at the helm, it seems that the Legacy was even harder to maintain than it was for CM to build.
Different times and regulations, costs, financing, etc. and none to pass the torch to. Likely a depressing scenario although in some media documents he seemed optimistic.

With WM's passing there would have been all the usual concerns about the business and all that it would encompass. Probably fair to think it placed a burden on a young DM, raised in a different generation/environment with different priorities.

I suppose history will ultimately decide the Legacy and maybe history will
simply view the Legacy as three separate eras rather than a dynasty lost.

Terrible and tragic that TB and family may have been affected by those events.

 

[bessie]

No link, no post.

:tyou:
​