Miners Trapped In WV Coal Mine

  • #421
Details said:
It might have been a hypothetical answer that got taken too seriously - when they heard the 12 were alive, a person could have asked one of the doctors or nearby personel if they'd be able to see them before they went to the hospital, and gotten an answer that they could if their health was good enough - that kind of statement could easily get 'telephone'd'' into a statement that the miners wanted to see their families first and would be allowed if...

Some of the family members interviewed about this were VERY specific. They said that they were told that the miners would first be led down a hall to a room with only the immediate family. Then they would all go to another room where the townspeople/pblic could greet them. The way these family members describe it they were under the impression that the miners wer not only alive, but alert and not in need of any emergency care. From WHERE did these ideas come?? Did they make it up for theselves without realizing it?

I find the psychology of this fascinating! The combination of stress, exhaustion, fear, faith and a kind of mob mentality (not in the sense of violence, but in the sense of a large number of people in a rater chaotic situation) created a situation where imagined (hoped for??) ideas became a weird sort of reality in the minds of those involved. I would love to hear an analysis from a Social Psychologist.
 
  • #422
Cypros said:
Some of the family members interviewed about this were VERY specific. They said that they were told that the miners would first be led down a hall to a room with only the immediate family. Then they would all go to another room where the townspeople/pblic could greet them. The way these family members describe it they were under the impression that the miners wer not only alive, but alert and not in need of any emergency care. From WHERE did these ideas come?? Did they make it up for theselves without realizing it?

I find the psychology of this fascinating! The combination of stress, exhaustion, fear, faith and a kind of mob mentality (not in the sense of violence, but in the sense of a large number of people in a rater chaotic situation) created a situation where imagined (hoped for??) ideas became a weird sort of reality in the minds of those involved. I would love to hear an analysis from a Social Psychologist.
That's my speculation - that what the family members described was indeed what the emergency people had decided to do, were the miners alive and healthy enough to see people - it seems too detailed for pure imagination, but combine an established procedure, a question about what the procedure is from someone who has just found out that all 12 are alive, and I could see this mutating into the story that was being passed around.
 
  • #423
This poem is so pretty. I thought I would reply to it so in case anyone missed it the first time you posted it. Does anyone know what the day in the life of a coal miner is like? Is this work seasonal work? Long hours? I know nothing about coal mines,from what i been watching on the news I see that they go down in the darkness to work, miles and miles below I just can't imagine...What brave, brave men to do this type of work just to be able to provide for their families, it makes me cry. These are real men. Their families are hurting now but somewhere amongst all the hurt they should also feel so proud of their guys.



Shadow205 said:
The Coal Miners prayer.
By W.Calvert

Each dawn as we rise, lord we know all to well,
We face only one thing - a pit filled with hell.
To scratch out a living the best that we can,
But deep in the heart, lies the soul of a man.

With black covered faces, and hard calloused hands,
We work the dark tunnels, unable to stand.
To labour and toil as we harvest the coals,
We silently pray "lord please harvest our souls".
 
  • #424
cheko1 said:
A miracle did occur in the mine....I wish him & his family the best.

This definitely isn't again you, cheko, but I'm questioning why we tend to feel that a miracle happened because this man survived. This man will be haunted the rest of his life by what happened. As the sole survivor - he will live in his own personel hell the rest of his life. What will his life be like now?

Suppose he has severe brain and/or organ damage because of the carbon monoxide poisoning and gets to live the rest of this life as what, a vegetable, paralyzed, crippled? We call this a miracle????

IMO, there were no survivors!
 
  • #425
Mygirlsadie said:
This poem is so pretty. I thought I would reply to it so in case anyone missed it the first time you posted it. Does anyone know what the day in the life of a coal miner is like? Is this work seasonal work? Long hours? I know nothing about coal mines,from what i been watching on the news I see that they go down in the darkness to work, miles and miles below I just can't imagine...What brave, brave men to do this type of work just to be able to provide for their families, it makes me cry. These are real men. Their families are hurting now but somewhere amongst all the hurt they should also feel so proud of their guys.

My uncle has worked in coal mines his whole life and I have other family members that have also, as well as parents of friends. It's not seasonal work. The hours tend to be shift work, such as 7-3, 3-11, 11-7 with some overtime. But I guess that would depend on what company you work for? The ones in the area that I grew up had those shifts. But I have never asked any family member what it's like to be in the mine, day after day, or what exactly they do while there. I know I couldn't do this. Not because I am claustrophic but more because I couldn't go so far underground without being scared of something happening that would not allow me to come out. In my opinion the money would not be worth it!! I agree, it takes brave men to do it.
 
  • #426
PrayersForMaura said:
CEOs run companies and make corporate decisions on how to run the business. Usually it's the PR person at the company or the "crisis management" team that take control of situations like these to resolve the conflict and feed the proper way to handle situations to CEOs.
CEOs are businessmen, not necessarily communicators.
They have staffs that help them manage their communications. Just like the President of the US has someone help him prepare for his speeches.

Just because someone has a "title" and manages, owns or operates a company doesn't make him or her a God.
I think sometimes people don't understand what goes along with a job title.
Instead, people just want to blame the top person in charge because their name is the one most known.
I can understand that. It doesn't mean that this line of thinking is correct though. Or even logical. It's often emotionally based.
This is just my opinion on the matter though.
Very good post. I imagine that there is a a disaster recovery plan which includes who will speak to the public and family. The CEO of the mining company seems like he truly cares about his people as does the CEO of my husband's company.
 
  • #427
poco said:
This definitely isn't again you, cheko, but I'm questioning why we tend to feel that a miracle happened because this man survived. This man will be haunted the rest of his life by what happened. As the sole survivor - he will live in his own personel hell the rest of his life. What will his life be like now?

Suppose he has severe brain and/or organ damage because of the carbon monoxide poisoning and gets to live the rest of this life as what, a vegetable, paralyzed, crippled? We call this a miracle????

IMO, there were no survivors!
With all due respect - I hardly think that the parents, wife, children and other friends and relatives of the survivor would agree with you. I think it is incredibly harsh to write that kid off like that. We don't know what his physical condition will be and while it is possible that he suffers from massive damage like you suggest it is also possible that he will live with no or only minor issues. We simply don't know yet and I would think it would be best to wait to see before you put him in the figurative grave.

As for mental condition he will certainly have things he will have to come to terms with such as survivors guilt and PTSD but there are thousands of veterans that have survived the horrors of war (not just Vietnam) who too face such struggles and yet I am sure they are happy to have survived their own personal hell.

Short term he faces one hell of a battle both physically and mentally but I still think the fact that he survived to even have a chance at that battle is a miracle in an of itself.

-BigTex
 
  • #428
BigTex said:
With all due respect - I hardly think that the parents, wife, children and other friends and relatives of the survivor would agree with you. I think it is incredibly harsh to write that kid off like that. We don't know what his physical condition will be and while it is possible that he suffers from massive damage like you suggest it is also possible that he will live with no or only minor issues. We simply don't know yet and I would think it would be best to wait to see before you put him in the figurative grave.

As for mental condition he will certainly have things he will have to come to terms with such as survivors guilt and PTSD but there are thousands of veterans that have survived the horrors of war (not just Vietnam) who too face such struggles and yet I am sure they are happy to have survived their own personal hell.

Short term he faces one hell of a battle both physically and mentally but I still think the fact that he survived to even have a chance at that battle is a miracle in an of itself.

-BigTex
Right on Big Tex. It is a miracle, if it was my brother, son, father, etc, I would be thanking God....it is God's will, IMO, that this man survived.

He is improving, critical (alot of his organs are damaged, but I understand that they believe they will get better) but stable condition.....from CNN.com his Dr. states the following

One of McCloy's lungs, which had collapsed during the nearly two days in the mine, had "almost completely re-expanded," Roberts said Wednesday afternoon.

Roberts said McCloy was sedated and breathing with a breathing tube, but he was moving and responding to stimuli. Most notably, McCloy was able to squeeze his wife's hand Wednesday after doctors temporarily decreased his sedation.

The breathing tube prevented McCloy from talking, but he was able to use his hand and make "appropriate" facial movements.

"He was able to interact a little bit with us," Roberts said at the time, referring to doctors and McCloy's wife, Anna. "I think that all of that is very, very positive."

A brain scan showed no evidence of a head injury from the mining accident that occurred early Monday. Despite the results of the scan, Roberts said the medical team was not able to assess McCloy's level of wakefulness because he was still under sedation.

Also, Roberts said doctors would start McCloy on hemodialysis for a kidney problem brought on by dehydration, but that is expected to be temporary and other bodily functions appear to be working normally.
 
  • #429
...Yes, poco, this young man will have an uphill battle, but I'm sure everyone is glad he is still here...

BTW, just read an article in USA Today, Federal Mine inspectors spent over 744 hours last year at this mine (doubling the amount they spent the year before); it is one of the worst in this area...serious, serious violations....non-compliance in terms of fixing them, etc. I can post more if you are interested...

Guys and gals, with all due respect, a good CEO would have been with the families....my husband works for an industry which also has its dangers....Long story short, a furnace (as in large industrial) exploded...a few men were killed, and several others were badly burned. The CEO went immediately to the site, stayed with the men until help came, stayed with the families for days, stayed with the men in the hospital, and continued to visit when they were home...He oaversaw the press releases, and gave the news conferences himself at first, and then slowly delegated it out to others...

Remember the fairly recent mining disaster in PA; it was handled much more appropriately, because the press and everyone else was more cautious and organized. TThe information was very tightly controlled during this inceident.

See: http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=n...y.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/13550445.htm

...snippet...

"In the wee hours of July 28, 2002, Pennsylvania Gov. Mark Schweiker appeared before a bank of TV cameras near the Quecreek Mine in Somerset County to announce "Nine for nine" - signaling that all the trapped miners were safe in a triumphant conclusion to a perilous rescue.

For 77 hours - under an intense international spotlight - Schweiker and his staff had tightly controlled the disaster scene, put a gag order on everyone in the command center, and placed miners' families under police guard.
The precision handling of the drama at the western Pennsylvania mine was a stark contrast to the tragedy that unfolded at the Sago Mine in West Virginia and the wrenching pain felt by 12 families who were told - wrongly - that their loved ones were alive.

Rumors spiraled out of control, bouncing from company officials to families to the media and finally to the West Virginia governor, who told the world that the miners were safe. Three hours later, mining company officials stunned family members by telling them that only one miner had survived.
A very different scenario played out four years earlier at Quecreek, where information flowed through one central conduit: the governor himself.
Every few hours for four straight days, Schweiker made a six-mile loop from the rescue site to the fire hall where the families had gathered..."


To say, in essence, well, all of this is OK/not so bad, because some other schmuck would have just sent his/her assistant is just saying that there could, in fact, have been someone worse than this guy....and the point is?

The Governor also needs to stand up and take responsibility....it's called accountability - I know it makes some uncomfortable, but it is what must be done...

I also totally agree that the press was also completely unprofessional here, Geraldo, being among the leaders of the wolfpack...
 
  • #430
The dead

Alva Martin Bennett

Alva Martin Bennett's father was a coal miner and his only son also worked at the mine. As far as relatives knew, it was the only job "Marty" ever had.

"He loves it, that has been his life," Marie Bonner said of her 50-year-old nephew.

Bennett's brother-in-law, Roger Perry, was one of at least five miners who got out of the mine after the explosion.

"Marty was very knowledgeable and such a good worker he could do just about anything," Bonner said.

Jim Bennett

Donald Marsh never understood how his half-brother, Jim Bennett, could stand to make a living underground.

"He wouldn't quit," Marsh said of Bennett, 61, of Philippi. "Hell, he loves the mines."

Bennett, a coal miner for several decades, also was a religious man, relatives said.

"Everyday he would come home and pray for who was going in (the mines)," said his son-in-law Daniel Merideth.

Bennett didn't talk about work much but had planned to retire this year.

"Right now he is probably in there witnessing to people," Merideth said earlier. "He would be organizing and praying."

Jerry Groves

Jerry Groves had been a coal miner for more than 30 years and followed in the footsteps of his father, grandfather, and another brother, relatives said.

Groves, 57, of Cleveland, who had hopes of retiring soon, was married with two adult children, said his brother, Raymond.

"Times are pretty hard here in West Virginia," Raymond Groves said. "(Mining) is about all you can do to make a living."

Terry Helms

A coal miner for 35 years, Terry Helms would not let his 25-year-old son become a miner.

Nick Helms said his family never discussed what his father did for a living because "he never wanted us to worry."

Helms, 50, of Newburg, who had worked at the Sago mine about six months, was a fire boss. He was the first one to enter the mine Monday morning for inspections, according to Helms' sister, Judy Shakelford.

Virginia Moore described her fiance as an avid hunter, golfer and fisherman who never really expressed any fears about working in the mine.

"He didn't talk too much about his work, he pretty much left it at the mine," she said.

David Lewis

David Lewis started working in the mines two and a half years ago so he could be home at night with his three daughters while his wife, Samantha, worked on a master's degree in health care administration.

Lewis, 28, of Philippi, had worked in the timber industry and construction but those jobs kept him away.

"This was a good way to make a living until we could find something different," Samantha Lewis said. "It's just a way of life. Unless you're a coal miner or you have a college degree, you don't make any money."

Martin Toler

Martin Toler, a mine foreman, had worked in mines most of his life, relatives said.

The 50-year-old previously worked with his 29-year-old son in a different mine for about four years before Chris Toler was laid off.

"I am going to tell him to retire when he gets out," Chris Toler said earlier.

Fred Ware Jr.

A coal miner for six years, Fred Ware Jr. always told his fiancee, Loretta Ables, he was going to die in the mines.

Ware, 59, an operator from Tallmansville, had previously broken his ankle in the mine when a rock fell off a rib.

Ables said she and Ware had been engaged about six years and were planning a Valentine's Day wedding.

"He's given me 35 gray hairs sitting here worrying myself over him," she said earlier.

Ware had worked through the holidays except for Sunday and had considered taking Monday off too.

Jack Weaver

Jack Weaver, 52, of Philippi, was married and had an 11-year-old son. His wife, Charlotte Weaver, said she was scared for her husband but "I couldn't give up."

The other victims have been named as: Thomas P. Anderson, 39; George Hamner Jr., 54, of Gladyfork; Jesse L. Jones, 44, of Pickens and Marshall Winans, 50, of Talbott.

Source, CNN.com
 
  • #431
The survivor

Randal McCloy

The sole survivor, Randal McCloy, wanted to quit mining, his wife said.

"It was too dangerous," said Anna McCloy, who met him in grade school. The couple has been together for 12 years.

Randal McCloy, 26, drives an hour each way from his home in Simpson to make money for his family -- 4-year-old Randal Jr. and 1-year-old Isabel.

McCloy was a licensed electrician, but the money in the mines was just too good to pass up, family members said.

"You do what you've gotta do to take care of your family. Everything is a risk nowadays," said his aunt Pat Miles.
 
  • #432
Background Information:

The Sago Mine is operated by the Ashland, Kentucky, based International Coal Group (ICG), which bought its bankrupt owner, Anker West Virginia Mining Company, in November 2005. Opened in 1999, the mine was closed for two years beginning in 2002. A slope mine, it employs 145 miners and produces 800,000 tons (720,000 tonnes) of coal a year.

In 2005 the mine was cited by the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) 208 times for violating regulations, up from 68 in 2004. Of those, 96 were considered significant and substantial.[2] By comparison, West Virginia's Office of Miners' Health, Safety and Training issued 144 citations over that year, up from 74 the previous year.

Some of those were for violations that could have had been factors in the accident, such as failure to control methane and coal-dust accumulation, failure to properly shore up shafts against collapse and overall deficiencies in emergency planning.

From the USA Today article, I referenced in my previous post, above:

• Seven times last year, MSHA cited the mine for failing to properly conduct a "pre-shift examination," the safety inspection mandated before each shift of workers is allowed to enter the mine. Monitoring methane gas is required during such an examination.

"The mine workers look at the pre-shift examination as one of the most important activities that the mine operator has got to perform," said Tim Baker, deputy administrator for health and safety at the United Mine Workers of America. "We look at that as an absolutely crucial first step of any mining operation."

• The mine had extensive safety problems that led the agency to close parts of it 18 times last year, McKinney said. Federal law does not allow MSHA to close portions of a mine that are not affected by safety problems, said Robert Friend, the acting MSHA chief. [Note from me - this is why they could not close the entire mine...]

The number of closures is far higher than is typical, said Tony Oppegard, a former state prosecutor on mine safety issues in Kentucky.

"That's very unusual and a red flag that there's some safety problems at that mine," Oppegard said.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=n.../2006-01-04-mine-violations_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA


Also see:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/03/AR2006010301433.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5081519
 
  • #433
scandi said:
Somebody might have already posted this, but one of the miners who was dying wrote a note to his wife. I think the Governor gave it to her, and he said she was so touched. The Gov said it was a very special note.

I'm hoping these guys just started feeling sleepy. Evidently they knew they were dying because of the gas. I'm hoping the gas took away any edge of panic when they realized this was it.

I loved your post Buzz.


Scandi
This breaks my heart. My brother has worked in the mines for the past 28 yrs., he and I were discussing this terrible accident tuesday late afternoon, I asked him what his oppinion was at that time, he said it's not good, it's been to long, if these men did survive the explosion then they know what they have to do, we know the ventilation fans were not working because the mines had lost power in the explosion. If these men did not find someplace to build their barracade that had fresh air coming in (which he personally thought was unlikely) then with 13 men in a small closed in area the oxygen would deplete fairly fast.
This entire accident is terrible, when I sit and think that these poor men huddled in this mine hour after hour waiting for rescue until they realized they probally weren't going to be rescued in time and wrote notes for their families just breaks my heart.
 
  • #434
housemaid25 said:
This breaks my heart. My brother has worked in the mines for the past 28 yrs., he and I were discussing this terrible accident tuesday late afternoon, I asked him what his oppinion was at that time, he said it's not good, it's been to long, if these men did survive the explosion then they know what they have to do, we know the ventilation fans were not working because the mines had lost power in the explosion. If these men did not find someplace to build their barracade that had fresh air coming in (which he personally thought was unlikely) then with 13 men in a small closed in area the oxygen would deplete fairly fast.
This entire accident is terrible, when I sit and think that these poor men huddled in this mine hour after hour waiting for rescue until they realized they probally weren't going to be rescued in time and wrote notes for their families just breaks my heart.

Thanks for sharing his perspective. Just wondering if you will ask him a question for me. Why does he think, if the mine shaft was not blocked by a cave in, did the miners not walk back up the mine shaft to the entrance? My only guess is if they thought they might encounter a blockage at some point and just didn't know.
 
  • #435
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060105/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion

Some of the 12 coal miners who died following an explosion left notes behind assuring family members that their final hours trapped underground were not spent in agony, a relative said Thursday.
"The notes said they weren't suffering, they were just going to sleep," said Peggy Cohen, who had been called to a makeshift morgue at a school to identify the body of her father, 59-year-old mining machine operator Fred Ware Jr.
 
  • #436
  • #437
I also totally agree that the press was also completely unprofessional here, Geraldo, being among the leaders of the wolfpack...


Can anyone provide the time that Geraldo first stated that all 12 were alive? TIA
 
  • #438
Lesleegp said:
Thanks for sharing his perspective. Just wondering if you will ask him a question for me. Why does he think, if the mine shaft was not blocked by a cave in, did the miners not walk back up the mine shaft to the entrance? My only guess is if they thought they might encounter a blockage at some point and just didn't know.


He, did talk about this, he said that he personally thinks that they probually did attempt to come out and probually ran in to heavy smoke, dust and so forth and not knowing how far down the shaft these conditions went or what was on the other side, and knowing the risk with poison gases from the explosion, that they deciced to go back build their barracade and wait.

Of course this is just his thoughts, we will probally never know exactly what they did.
 
  • #439
poco said:
This definitely isn't again you, cheko, but I'm questioning why we tend to feel that a miracle happened because this man survived. This man will be haunted the rest of his life by what happened. As the sole survivor - he will live in his own personel hell the rest of his life. What will his life be like now?

Suppose he has severe brain and/or organ damage because of the carbon monoxide poisoning and gets to live the rest of this life as what, a vegetable, paralyzed, crippled? We call this a miracle????

IMO, there were no survivors!
Saw the Dr. interviewed this morning and the carbon monoxide poisoning damaged multiple organs; although his condition is improving, there is no telling, at this time, if irreversible organ damage has occurred, or how Mr. McCloy will end up.. It's a little too early to know, for sure, if he will recover, let alone fully recover.
 
  • #440
poco said:
This definitely isn't again you, cheko, but I'm questioning why we tend to feel that a miracle happened because this man survived. This man will be haunted the rest of his life by what happened. As the sole survivor - he will live in his own personel hell the rest of his life. What will his life be like now?

Suppose he has severe brain and/or organ damage because of the carbon monoxide poisoning and gets to live the rest of this life as what, a vegetable, paralyzed, crippled? We call this a miracle????

IMO, there were no survivors!
There could be a bad enough outcome that I wouldn't call him a survivor - but right now that doesn't look to be the case. There will be survivor guilt - but you can live with that. As to a vegetable or paralyzed - he's already responding to commands and can squeeze people's hands when asked to do so - a very good indication he's not paralyzed, nor at all a vegetable. So far, he sounds very lucky.
 

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