Miss California - Same Sex Marriage-Perez Hilton

  • #81
First let me start by saying I am 100% for legal gay marriages.

But I will defend her right to her opinion and her right to FREE SPEECH. I respect her for being TRUE to herself.

The question should have NEVER been asked if people were unable to deal with the answers.
 
  • #82
Gay rights (including marriage) is SUCH a touchy subject, and many people (myself included) feel passionately one way or the other. I don't think the question should have been asked in the first place.
With that being said, I appreciate the fact that Ms. Cali stuck to her guns and expressed HER OPINION. I DO NOT appreciate Perez's reaction, or the fact that he called her a "b". I don't agree with her opinion, but everyone has that right. Period.
 
  • #83
The fact that this is such an outrage (per media reports) is laughable. We are talking about what a woman said at a pageant that judges women based on their looks. GMAB. There's so much more worse with this whole pageant than what one of the contestants said. JMO.
 
  • #84
Trump himself even said there was no way to answer the question without offending some group yet he's laughing all the way to the bank and won't even answer whether it was a mistake to have PH as a judge.

Typical Trump. I hope the pageant is sold to someone else for the girls' sake. People may avoid it next year in disgust on both sides.

Now that Trump has stated the question was impossible to answer, I think Miss CA should sue! Trump has deep pockets and he needs a taste of his own medicine.
 
  • #85
Equal rights are not something you have a "feeling" about. You either can or you cannot walk up to the courthouse and marry the person you love and have decided to commit to. according to the law.

You either can do the same things that other Americans are allowed to do, or you are discriminated against for your "difference", and because you don't fit in with the majority or what is considered "normal".

Are you telling me, that if the majority votes against same sex marriage based on their religious convictions that the courts should over rule that? In other words, secular beliefs are right and those of someone else are wrong because they're religious? If I don't believe in homosexuality because I don't feel it is part of God's plan and I vote against two homosexuals marrying then I'm discriminating against their sexual preference? I have every right to follow the Holy Spirit. I won't continue this discussion because there is a rule here at WS not to discuss religion and it plays such a strong part in my feelings about this subject.
 
  • #86
I can see your point that she answered the question indirectly. I think a more direct answer "No - I do not think other states should follow suit" would have been better received. She was just a little weasely - which I actually completely understand given the sticky wicket of a question. But frankly, I think it's hard to answer questions on your feet.

I don't think ill of Ms. Cally - it was an opinion question and she gave hers. I don't think it was a great answer regardless of her opinion (even though, as I said earlier, I have seen worse flubs). Ms. Cally will be fine - she has gotten LOTS of press from this and that's a good thing for someone in the pageant arena.

In the end I am only glad Ms. NC won because I'm a Southern girl! But frankly, I wouldn't have even known this event had taken place if there hadn't been this non-scandal!

Me neither, I never watch that junk :hand: (no offence to those of you who enjoy it). I feel it is actually detrimental to women and young girls escpecially, parading across a stage for all to admire and competing against one another like a herd of prized cattle in an agricultural event. :cow:
 
  • #87
Equal rights are not something you have a "feeling" about. You either can or you cannot walk up to the courthouse and marry the person you love and have decided to commit to. according to the law.

You either can do the same things that other Americans are allowed to do, or you are discriminated against for your "difference", and because you don't fit in with the majority or what is considered "normal".

Excellent post!
 
  • #88
What I find most hilarious about this whole situation is that Perez Hilton, of all people on the planet, has been selected to judge other people on their "poise, charm, self confidence, ability to communicate, and ...substance"

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
  • #89
I think if any of the other contestants would have picked that judges name, he would have asked a complete different question. It appears to me that it was directed at California specifically because he is mad at the State for the way they voted on gay marriage.

Not because he was "mad at the state," but because there has been so much discussion of the subject here over the past year that "Miss CALIFORNIA," of all people, should reasonably be expected to articulate a clear answer. Instead, she blathered.
 
  • #90
Are you telling me, that if the majority votes against same sex marriage based on their religious convictions that the courts should over rule that? In other words, secular beliefs are right and those of someone else are wrong because they're religious? If I don't believe in homosexuality because I don't feel it is part of God's plan and I vote against two homosexuals marrying then I'm discriminating against their sexual preference? I have every right to follow the Holy Spirit. I won't continue this discussion because there is a rule here at WS not to discuss religion and it plays such a strong part in my feelings about this subject.

Yes, yes and yes. As a rule, courts have had to intervene to secure civil rights for minorities, as without such checks, "majority rule" becomes a form of tyranny.

I have every right to believe you are going to Hell for wearing white after Labor Day. But in a democracy, I don't get to deprive you of basic civil rights for doing so.

Let's remember that many people believed the Holy Spirit led them to enslave blacks, deny voting rights and financial independence to women, kill Amerindians, etc. Danaya, I'm sure you and I will agree those many people were badly mistaken, but their errors illustrate the problem with faith-based governance.
 
  • #91
Could we stop calling this young woman "honest"? Miss California's answer may have been factually true, but believing something because "my family" believes it isn't honest, it's robotic.
 
  • #92
Could we stop calling this young woman "honest"? Miss California's answer may have been factually true, but believing something because "my family" believes it isn't honest, it's robotic.

ummmm my family believes it's not right to kill people and so do I, does that make me a robot?
 
  • #93
ummmm my family believes it's not right to kill people and so do I, does that make me a robot?

Depends. Do you believe it BECAUSE that's what they told you, or because you yourself have considered the moral implications?

I just think it devalues the word "honesty" when we use it to describe received beliefs. Is a child's belief in Santa Claus "honest"? I suppose so, in a sense, but what a waste of the word!
 
  • #94
In my opinion, if you ask some contestants political questions, others fun questions and still others controversal questions, aren't you then deciding who will in fact win? It doesn't make it a very fair contest in my opinion. I think it's very unfair to ask someone their opinion and hold it against them because you don't agree. JMO
 
  • #95
In my opinion, if you ask some contestants political questions, others fun questions and still others controversal questions, aren't you then deciding who will in fact win? It doesn't make it a very fair contest in my opinion. I think it's very unfair to ask someone their opinion and hold it against them because you don't agree. JMO

Not just your opinion, McD; mine, too.

But I think the fault lies with those who ask softball questions. ("How did you get your nickname?" Come on!) Why shouldn't all these young women be asked controversial, political questions about the world in which they live? They're not toddlers and all should be able to discuss the major issues of the day.

Hilton is a professional provocateur and I can't speak for his motives in scoring.

But personally I wouldn't score any contestant very highly who responded with cliches like "marriage is between a man and a woman," particularly when she first tried to mitigate that cliche with another about "freedom to choose."

Nor would I look kindly on any contestant who attributed her belief, even in part, to "my family."
 
  • #96
Are you telling me, that if the majority votes against same sex marriage based on their religious convictions that the courts should over rule that? In other words, secular beliefs are right and those of someone else are wrong because they're religious? If I don't believe in homosexuality because I don't feel it is part of God's plan and I vote against two homosexuals marrying then I'm discriminating against their sexual preference? I have every right to follow the Holy Spirit. I won't continue this discussion because there is a rule here at WS not to discuss religion and it plays such a strong part in my feelings about this subject.

I'm not sure it even should be put to a vote. My church, decades ago, disallowed dancing and playing cards. Should this have been expanded on a national level and put to a vote? Should a religious or moral view of some curtail the personal freedoms/civil rights of others?

Many think not - there is a fine line between Govt. intervention into our personal lives and laws that are passed for the GREATER GOOD, usually regarding personal health or safety of citizens.
 
  • #97
Actually not quite true. Many contestants have or were pursuing Masters degrees, and several past winners have gone on to do other things besides acting or being a blond bimbo playboy bunny (Shanna Moaker) Bobbie Johnson went on to become an engineer for GE, Jineane Ford is a very respected newscaster from Phoenix, and Kim Seelbrede is a psychotherapist. And it was Perez Hilton, not Paris Hilton who was the judge. JMO

I know it was Perez... it's a play on words LOL :blowkiss:
 
  • #98
Equal rights are not something you have a "feeling" about. You either can or you cannot walk up to the courthouse and marry the person you love and have decided to commit to. according to the law.

You either can do the same things that other Americans are allowed to do, or you are discriminated against for your "difference", and because you don't fit in with the majority or what is considered "normal".


My question is was Miss California discriminated against because her answer was different than what Perez Hilton believed or wanted to hear? Discrimination comes in all forms.
 
  • #99
Could we stop calling this young woman "honest"? Miss California's answer may have been factually true, but believing something because "my family" believes it isn't honest, it's robotic.

With all due respect, Nova, Miss CA did give an honest answer. Her answer, as it applied to the belief she held at the time of question, was not deceptive in any way, shape or form.

She was hit with a 'To thy own self be true' moment and in the eyes of many people, some of whom hold the opposing belief, she passed the test. There is no honest way, or reason, for her belief to be determined as robotic.

My own belief on same-sex marriage doesn't call for me to be true to myself in the way that her belief does. I view this as a strictly secular issue and hold a rather simplistic belief: Tax equality = Rights equality.

But then....this is old news to Massachusetts folks. The right to marry is the right to marry for all. The world didn't end and Satan didn't spring forth from the bowels of the earth.

The heroes of the cause then were not the likes of Perez Hilton but unknown Clerks of a dozen or so cities & towns across Massachusetts. Who, despite being threatened with arrest by Gov. Romney, continued to abide by the law and not ask discriminating questions at the time of license application by couples.

The City Clerk of the city I reside in was one of those Clerks. I know he is married, has children and a devote Catholic. Have no idea what his personal beliefs are on same-sex marriage. He stated only that he would accept arrest over discrimination and kept on notarizing.
 
  • #100
With all due respect, Nova, Miss CA did give an honest answer. Her answer, as it applied to the belief she held at the time of question, was not deceptive in any way, shape or form.

She was hit with a 'To thy own self be true' moment and in the eyes of many people, some of whom hold the opposing belief, she passed the test. There is no honest way, or reason, for her belief to be determined as robotic.

My own belief on same-sex marriage doesn't call for me to be true to myself in the way that her belief does. I view this as a strictly secular issue and hold a rather simplistic belief: Tax equality = Rights equality.

But then....this is old news to Massachusetts folks. The right to marry is the right to marry for all. The world didn't end and Satan didn't spring forth from the bowels of the earth.

The heroes of the cause then were not the likes of Perez Hilton but unknown Clerks of a dozen or so cities & towns across Massachusetts. Who, despite being threatened with arrest by Gov. Romney, continued to abide by the law and not ask discriminating questions at the time of license application by couples.

The City Clerk of the city I reside in was one of those Clerks. I know he is married, has children and a devote Catholic. Have no idea what his personal beliefs are on same-sex marriage. He stated only that he would accept arrest over discrimination and kept on notarizing.

Capoly, I had to quote your post entirely, not only because it is so well written, but because the Massachusetts' story on this sujbect can never be told too often. (BTW, city clerks attempted to do the same here, but were blocked by our courts, which then led to the supreme court decision, Prop 8, etc.)

Fortunately, my grandchildren live in your great state and so they find nothing remotely unusual, much less surprising, in the fact that Grandpa "Nova" and Grandpa "Mr. Nova" are married in California.

But I think if we read Miss Cali's remarks in full, we find her not being so much "honest" as trying to straddle the fence in order to win the crown.

She starts out trying to praise "freedom of choice" in this great country of ours and then ends up trying to wrap herself in traditional values ("my family" and that tired, "man and a woman" cliche). Really, she wants to have it both ways.

She could have said "I believe in universal rights for all, even though I personally rely on traditional definitions of marriage." She did not.

She could have said "I believe the Bible rules on this subject, so, no, I don't think equal marriage rights should be extended to all." She did not.

She could have said "'Marriage' has been defined in a certain way for a long time. I'd like to see an extended conversation of pros and cons before we change it." She did not.

I do realize that waffling on controversial questions is an ancient beauty-pageant tradition and shouldn't surprise us in a Miss USA finalist.

But since we all agree that "honesty" is usually a virtue, I'd like to reserve the word for carefully considered candor.

Let's don't pick and choose from a jumble of catch phrases and call some of them "honest."

(As for my use of the word "robotic," I thought I was being kind, under the circumstances.)
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
61
Guests online
2,538
Total visitors
2,599

Forum statistics

Threads
632,859
Messages
18,632,638
Members
243,315
Latest member
what123
Back
Top