Missing cell phones

[Kamille]

The info about the phones was not released right away. It was finally revealed several days later. Don't know why LE didn't release what kind they were though.:waitasec:

LE didn't release that info, DB and JI did. I doubt LE ever would have released that information and probably told them not to release evidence info.

Wonder why DB and JI did as it was during the time that they were taking a "break" from questions and were not pleased with LE. And when they did, why didn't they mention the type of phones and ask people to be on the lookout for them? Why is this still a mystery?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I don't know anything about pings- but if dying battery makes them stop pinging, wouldn't taking the battery out as well? It seems if that's the case there would be no reason to risk hiding and then retrieving them? Just curious.

I doubt they knew much about pings and I bet they definately didn't know that even if the phones were turned off, LE could have them turned on remotely by the carrier and ping them. I guess removing the battery just didn't cross the mind of "whoever" took them because I think they were definitely pinging at first.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

you can't switch sim cards if the new phone is with a different carrier. A couple of carriers don't even have a sim.

You can with smart phones. All the carrier info is on the card.

What I'd like to know is if they weren't smart phones, how would DB be able to say that there were 2 working phones and one broken one. She would have to get the donated phone hooked up to her plan. And she couldn't have done that without paying the bill.

MOO

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I don't understand why it is important to release the type of phone, I mean really, if a neighbour or a jogger stumbles upon a discarded phone(s), they will contact police now, regardless of what kind it is.

 

[MamaK]

With the layout of the house, it appears the counter the cell phones were allegedly on is out of the way either entering through the computer room, or exiting through the front door. Still can't imagine an abductor stopping on the way out to go into the kitchen and retrieve three worthless cell phones knowing they would have to be disposed of immediately so not to track the abductor.

MOO

Respectfully BBM. On the floorplan that we have as a sticky, it appears to me that if the kidnapper goes through the kitchen either to or from Lisa's room, they would walk right by the counter with the phones. The kidnapper could go through either the kitchen or the living room. The living room route would go right by the master bedroom, whereas the kitchen route would go past the computer room and the boys' room. MOO

I still have no idea why anyone would take the cell phones. :crazy:

 

[SmoothOperator]

The phones and all of their info IS ALL ACCESSIBLE TO LE.. each and every phone number dialed, each and every incoming call whether answered or not.. Even if the *67 was used to block an incoming number, this is still all included in the itemized statement..even the blocked number shows up, every exact time and date stamp for each call incoming/outgoing, with the precise time of each and every call.. Every single text or media msg(pic/video) is also easily accessible as well, with time and date stamp and every word of the text msg.. Along with all pings of the phone.. All of this info is easy accessed WITHOUT HAVING THE ACTUAL PHONE.. hundreds of pages of detailed and itemized data of every single thing done on each of these phones.. Included in that as well is all Internet usage from each phone.. Each download or Internet or website surfed is time/date stamped.. The actual phone is not needed for Any of this easily accessed data from each of these phones..

The only thing that is not able to be accessed are photos/videos that were taken with the phone.. But the catch with that is all that has to be done if there were a photo that someone wanted to hide is to delete it from the phone.. There is no process to retrieve deleted photos/videos.. So the truth Is there is nothing that could have been hidden or concealed by these phones being destroyed or hidden.. Every single tiny bit of the data and details is easily accessed.. The phones being physically hidden would not have kept anything hidden whatsoever..

As far as perps taking the phones being stupid due to gps Tracking.. Well the truth of this is that dependant on the model phone they wouldn't be traced when they're powered off and if happened to be a newer model cell still would be untraceable or untrackable by simply popping the battery out of the back of the phone.. Takes 2 secs to do this and the phones are rendered absolutely UNTRACEABLE IN EVERY WAY WITH NO PINGS WHATSOEVER, period..

In knowing the ^above^ described information there is nothing that Debbie or Jeremy would have been able to conceal from LE by their destroying or discarding the cell phones.. Therefor IMO I do not see it as a motive for hiding the phones when the truth is hiding the physical phone in reality hides NOTHING WHATSOEVER!

 

[MamaK]

You can with smart phones. All the carrier info is on the card.

What I'd like to know is if they weren't smart phones, how would DB be able to say that there were 2 working phones and one broken one. She would have to get the donated phone hooked up to her plan. And she couldn't have done that without paying the bill.

MOO

This is complete speculation, but I believe that the family member that gave them the phone was going to carry that phone on their plan until DB and JI could pay their bill. This is complete speculation and not based on any kind of fact. Just guessing, MOO, IMO, and all of that stuff.

 

[djm41]

I doubt they knew much about pings and I bet they definately didn't know that even if the phones were turned off, LE could have them turned on remotely by the carrier and ping them. I guess removing the battery just didn't cross the mind of "whoever" took them because I think they were definitely pinging at first.

MOO

I agree. Everything I know about cell phone tracking and pings, I learned here on websleuths.

 

[MamaK]

This is complete speculation, but I believe that the family member that gave them the phone was going to carry that phone on their plan until DB and JI could pay their bill. This is complete speculation and not based on any kind of fact. Just guessing, MOO, IMO, and all of that stuff.

Sorry to quote myself but if this is the case, then they had 1 phone in the house that was working... unless, since that was an old phone, it wasn't activated by the family member yet... my head hurts. :crazy:

 

[carole]

The phones and all of their info IS ALL ACCESSIBLE TO LE.. each and every phone number dialed, each and every incoming call whether answered or not.. Even if the *67 was used to block an incoming number, this is still all included in the itemized statement..even the blocked number shows up, every exact time and date stamp for each call incoming/outgoing, with the precise time of each and every call.. Every single text or media msg(pic/video) is also easily accessible as well, with time and date stamp and every word of the text msg.. Along with all pings of the phone.. All of this info is easy accessed WITHOUT HAVING THE ACTUAL PHONE.. hundreds of pages of detailed and itemized data of every single thing done on each of these phones.. Included in that as well is all Internet usage from each phone.. Each download or Internet or website surfed is time/date stamped.. The actual phone is not needed for Any of this easily accessed data from each of these phones..

The only thing that is not able to be accessed are photos/videos that were taken with the phone.. But the catch with that is all that has to be done if there were a photo that someone wanted to hide is to delete it from the phone.. There is no process to retrieve deleted photos/videos.. So the truth Is there is nothing that could have been hidden or concealed by these phones being destroyed or hidden.. Every single tiny bit of the data and details is easily accessed.. The phones being physically hidden would not have kept anything hidden whatsoever..

As far as perps taking the phones being stupid due to gps Tracking.. Well the truth of this is that dependant on the model phone they wouldn't be traced when they're powered off and if happened to be a newer model cell still would be untraceable or untraceable by simply popping the battery out of the back of the phone.. Takes 2 secs to do this and the phones are rendered absolutely UNTRACEABLE IN EVERY WAY WITH NO PINGS WHATSOEVER, period..

In knowing the ^above^ described information there is nothing that Debbie or Jeremy would have been able to conceal from LE by their destroying or discarding the cell phones.. Therefor IMO I do not see it as a motive for hiding the phones when the truth is hiding the physical phone in reality hides NOTHING WHATSOEVER!

BBM

But would DB and JI know that??

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

This is complete speculation, but I believe that the family member that gave them the phone was going to carry that phone on their plan until DB and JI could pay their bill. This is complete speculation and not based on any kind of fact. Just guessing, MOO, IMO, and all of that stuff.

Or said family member could have simply said, I have a new phone, if you don't want my old one I'm tossing it, or selling it.

 

[MamaK]

BBM

But would DB and JI know that??

An intruder might not know that either though. MOO

 

[LancelotLink]

I wonder if DB and JI reported the phones stolen to their carrier.

 

[Kamille]

The phones and all of their info IS ALL ACCESSIBLE TO LE.. each and every phone number dialed, each and every incoming call whether answered or not.. Even if the *67 was used to block an incoming number, this is still all included in the itemized statement..even the blocked number shows up, every exact time and date stamp for each call incoming/outgoing, with the precise time of each and every call.. Every single text or media msg(pic/video) is also easily accessible as well, with time and date stamp and every word of the text msg.. Along with all pings of the phone.. All of this info is easy accessed WITHOUT HAVING THE ACTUAL PHONE.. hundreds of pages of detailed and itemized data of every single thing done on each of these phones.. Included in that as well is all Internet usage from each phone.. Each download or Internet or website surfed is time/date stamped.. The actual phone is not needed for Any of this easily accessed data from each of these phones..

The only thing that is not able to be accessed are photos/videos that were taken with the phone.. But the catch with that is all that has to be done if there were a photo that someone wanted to hide is to delete it from the phone.. There is no process to retrieve deleted photos/videos.. So the truth Is there is nothing that could have been hidden or concealed by these phones being destroyed or hidden.. Every single tiny bit of the data and details is easily accessed.. The phones being physically hidden would not have kept anything hidden whatsoever..

As far as perps taking the phones being stupid due to gps Tracking.. Well the truth of this is that dependant on the model phone they wouldn't be traced when they're powered off and if happened to be a newer model cell still would be untraceable or untrackable by simply popping the battery out of the back of the phone.. Takes 2 secs to do this and the phones are rendered absolutely UNTRACEABLE IN EVERY WAY WITH NO PINGS WHATSOEVER, period..

In knowing the ^above^ described information there is nothing that Debbie or Jeremy would have been able to conceal from LE by their destroying or discarding the cell phones.. Therefor IMO I do not see it as a motive for hiding the phones when the truth is hiding the physical phone in reality hides NOTHING WHATSOEVER!

It's still questionable about whether carriers archive text messages. This came up during the Kobe Bryant trial when AT&T were able to retrieve text messages that were 4 months old.

While some European countries require telecoms to store text-messaging content and other communications for law enforcement purposes no such requirement exists in the United States, said Barry Steinhardt, director of the Technology and Liberty Project of the American Civil Liberties Union. That changes when law enforcement officials obtain a court order.

The large U.S. wireless companies say messages are deleted either when they are sent or after a set amount of time if they cannot be delivered.

Cingular Wireless will wait seven days before purging undelivered messages, spokesman Clay Owen said. "Otherwise, nothing is stored," he said.

Verizon Wireless spokeswoman Jenny Weaver and Sprint PCS spokesman Dave Mellin said text messages are not stored anywhere after delivery.

Travis Larson, spokesman for the Cellular Telecommunications and Internet Association, said information about text messages - including the sender, recipient and location of sender - is always stored for billing purposes. The software used to store that information also can store content.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/07/tech/main621388.shtml

Considering the shear number of text messages that are sent today as opposed to 2 years ago, I suppose there's a good chance that it's just becoming impossible to archive everything? :waitasec:


Internet surfing cannot be traced by the carrier if the person is using a wireless connection and not the actual phone internet service.


And the FBI can do all kinds of interesting things with the newer phones...

Cell phone users, beware. The FBI can listen to everything you say, even when the cell phone is turned off. A recent court ruling in a case against the Genovese crime family revealed that the FBI has the ability from a remote location to activate a cell phone and turn its microphone into a listening device that transmits to an FBI listening post, a method known as a "roving bug." Experts say the only way to defeat it is to remove the cell phone battery. "The FBI can access cell phones and modify them remotely without ever having to physically handle them," James Atkinson, a counterintelligence security consultant, told ABC News. "Any recently manufactured cell phone has a built-in tracking device, which can allow eavesdroppers to pinpoint someone’s location to within just a few feet," he added.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2006/12/can_you_hear_me/

 

[SmoothOperator]

In going with the theory that neither of these two woukd have been cell phone savvy in the least and wouldn't have known that they were unable to hide anything done on the cells by their simply discarding the actual phones.. Still doesn't make the end result any different it remains the same.. In that whatever it was they were "attempting" to hide by disposing the phones IS ALREADY KNOWN TO LE.. it was not successfully hidden and LE already has longsince had all of the important details from each of these phones.. Meaning that IMO still searching for the actual physical phones would not be a necessity for LE.. They have of the info that each phone contained already.. So Deb's and Jeremy's knowledge or not with the phone data being accessible to LE then becomes irrelevant.. LE knows everything on the phones..

 

[Kamille]

In going with the theory that neither of these two woukd have been cell phone savvy in the least and wouldn't have known that they were unable to hide anything done on the cells by their simply discarding the actual phones.. Still doesn't make the end result any different it remains the same.. In that whatever it was they were "attempting" to hide by disposing the phones IS ALREADY KNOWN TO LE.. it was not successfully hidden and LE already has longsince had all of the important details from each of these phones.. Meaning that IMO still searching for the actual physical phones would not be a necessity for LE.. They have of the info that each phone contained already.. So Deb's and Jeremy's knowledge or not with the phone data being accessible to LE then becomes irrelevant.. LE knows everything on the phones..

I agree. I think it's WHERE the phones are located that is important. If they were located buried in their own back garden or hidden anywhere in or outside of the home when they are perpetuating the theory that the intruder left via the front door with them, that that would be a BIG piece of circumstantial evidence against one or both of them IMO.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I know for a fact that with both Sprint and ATT the text messages are definitely saved, archived and accessible.. I know it due to having done so in divorce proceedings.. I had thousands of pages of calls, text, Internet downloads and usage.. All of it time and date stamped to the millisecond..

 

[grandmaj]

In going with the theory that neither of these two woukd have been cell phone savvy in the least and wouldn't have known that they were unable to hide anything done on the cells by their simply discarding the actual phones.. Still doesn't make the end result any different it remains the same.. In that whatever it was they were "attempting" to hide by disposing the phones IS ALREADY KNOWN TO LE.. it was not successfully hidden and LE already has longsince had all of the important details from each of these phones.. Meaning that IMO still searching for the actual physical phones would not be a necessity for LE.. They have of the info that each phone contained already.. So Deb's and Jeremy's knowledge or not with the phone data being accessible to LE then becomes irrelevant.. LE knows everything on the phones..

Respectfully, It is not irrelevant in the short run if J and D didn't know that LE could still get the information.

It would only be irrelevant in the long run. Once they are confronted with the information.

Likewise the same if they were stolen.

The key here is that is makes no sense that a person who has the ulterior motive of stealing a child is walking around with 3 cell phones unless there was something that was on the cell phone that a person doesn't want known.

Not everyone knows about removing the battery. There is something more to these phones and I believe that the something has not be divulged yet. But I still do not believe a kidnapper stole the phones.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I agree. I think it's WHERE the phones are located that is important. If they were located buried in their own back garden or hidden anywhere in or outside of the home when they are perpetuating the theory that the intruder left via the front door with them, that that would be a BIG piece of circumstantial evidence against one or both of them IMO.

Oohhhh! Yes, I see what you mean. Good point.

 

[Cher352]

An intruder stealing cell phones isn't all that weird to me(if they were actually stolen).

They will bring about as much money as a used DVR, or TV and much easier to pocket. Actually there is a big market for used cell phones, just check ebay, Craigslist or any of the resellers on the net. It appears cell phone theft is very common and on the rise in most states from what I googled. Here in FL a few years back there was a rash of stolen cells being quickly sold and used for large volumes of overseas calls until the service was cut off.