Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl critically injured after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024

[SteveP]

My father met coma criteria after he had the massive stroke which led to his death in October 4 days later, at the age of 90. He had sleep and wake cycles, and recognized us; he was not on life support, and had an IV port installed for morphine, and a urinary catheter just so he wouldn't wet himself.

The Glasgow Coma Scale and how experts use it

What do the numbers of the Glasgow Coma Scale mean, and how does it add up to affect care for nervous system conditions?

my.clevelandclinic.org

I just checked the Missouri CaseNet website, and so far, the suspect has not been charged as an adult.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

[mickey2942]

In the hospitals I've worked at, rehab is rehab or SNF and LTC is LTC.

Regardless, I think she's too acute to be sent anywhere. I don't know of any LTC facility or nursing home that would take her based on what we know. A nursing home or LTC facility is for people who are chronically ill or there are at their new baseline following injury or illness. It's entirely too early to determine that with Kaylee. Her brain hasn't healed yet. Too much risk in sending someone who is still medically ill and I doubt any facility would accept her right now.



Again, there is no timeline on this. Different injuries require different judgment. Someone with a stroke may be treated as you say or someone with cancer or even a less severe brain injury. In Kaylee's case, none of us can say since we don't have her medical records, but it's very highly unlikely anyone will be concerned with placement by next week.

Perhaps you are correct. My experience has been primarily with people who had strokes, geriatric patients. They really want them out of the hospital within a week or so.

 

[airportwoman]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Thanks. That's one of the sucky things about getting older - losing people you love. However, I'm thankful for the 59 years I did have him.

Most likely, she has been removed to a rehabilitation floor, even if it's just for evaluation to see how much potential she might have. Since she's under 18, I am aware of at least one LTC for children in the St. Louis area and they might send her there; I know someone whose child lives there. This youngster is on a ventilator and has been since birth, and her mother is in an unstable situation of her own, especially after the child's father died, so really, this is the best place for her. (I don't know if they were married, but they were together when he died suddenly.)

Ranken Jordan Pediatric Bridge Hospital | Bridging Hospital to Home for Children

Ranken Jordan Pediatric Bridge Hospital provides innovative, family-centered care for children with complex medical needs bridging the gap from hospital to home with expert inpatient and outpatient therapies.

rankenjordan.org

 

[GoBuckeyes]

There's no hard and fast rule on timeline for rehab, but patients going to rehab have to be conscious and have at least a minimal level of mobility and cognitive awareness to participate in physical therapy. Kaylee is nowhere near that from what we're hearing. If she is moved to rehab, then she's actually doing much, much better than the MSM would have us believe.

Perhaps Mickey was suggesting that she may in short order, if she's stable, be moved to a more permanent long-term care facility? (Not to speak for Mickey. That's how I read his comment.) It's my understanding that, absent a long-term care floor, wing, etc. that the hospital is usually used for more acute illnesses/sickness/ etc. At a certain point, insurance will start to push also. IMEO IMOO Maybe that's just been my experience??

 

[mickey2942]

Perhaps Mickey was suggesting that she may in short order, if she's stable, be moved to a more permanent long-term care facility? (Not to speak for Mickey. That's how I read his comment.) It's my understanding that, absent a long-term care floor, wing, etc. that the hospital is usually used for more acute illnesses/sickness/ etc. At a certain point, insurance will start to push also. IMEO IMOO Maybe that's just been my experience??

Yes, that is my experience too. If the patient is stable, does not need acute medical care, it is time to find placement.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

My father met coma criteria after he had the massive stroke which led to his death in October 4 days later, at the age of 90. He had sleep and wake cycles, and recognized us; he was not on life support, and had an IV port installed for morphine, and a urinary catheter just so he wouldn't wet himself.

The Glasgow Coma Scale and how experts use it

What do the numbers of the Glasgow Coma Scale mean, and how does it add up to affect care for nervous system conditions?

my.clevelandclinic.org

I just checked the Missouri CaseNet website, and so far, the suspect has not been charged as an adult.

I was going to say something similar.
My mum had a severe stroke at 54; she was put into an induced coma for a few days to let her brain 'rest.'
Then, they gradually let her regain consciousness. After several weeks, maybe 5 or 6, maybe more, she was sent to a 'rehab' hospital for nearly two years before they said Ok, this is as good as she'll get and sent her 'home' to live with 24 hour care. She couldn't walk and could only say no. Could not operate communication devices and could only press one direction on her wheelchair and would go around in circles, laughing.
Her stroke was on the left side frontal.
This is just for a real life example.
Obviously this was brain trauma in a different way.

I am assuming that because it was the back of her head that was smashed on the concrete, the damage to the frontal lobe is due to the rebound of the frontal lobes hitting the bone above the eye socket? Does anyone know?

 

[mickey2942]

My father met coma criteria after he had the massive stroke which led to his death in October 4 days later, at the age of 90. He had sleep and wake cycles, and recognized us; he was not on life support, and had an IV port installed for morphine, and a urinary catheter just so he wouldn't wet himself.

The Glasgow Coma Scale and how experts use it

What do the numbers of the Glasgow Coma Scale mean, and how does it add up to affect care for nervous system conditions?

my.clevelandclinic.org

I just checked the Missouri CaseNet website, and so far, the suspect has not been charged as an adult.

So sorry for your loss.

It is interesting that the perpetrator has not been charged as an adult. I guess, since she is a juvenile, we would not know about the court hearings. There must be some charges in place for her to be in custody. No bail hearing?

I know that they do put ankle monitors on juveniles. So, it is interesting that she is still in custody? Or would we know if she had been released?

 

[Laughing]

Thanks. That's one of the sucky things about getting older - losing people you love. However, I'm thankful for the 59 years I did have him.

Most likely, she has been removed to a rehabilitation floor, even if it's just for evaluation to see how much potential she might have. Since she's under 18, I am aware of at least one LTC for children in the St. Louis area and they might send her there; I know someone whose child lives there. This youngster is on a ventilator and has been since birth, and her mother is in an unstable situation of her own, especially after the child's father died, so really, this is the best place for her. (I don't know if they were married, but they were together when he died suddenly.)

Ranken Jordan Pediatric Bridge Hospital | Bridging Hospital to Home for Children

Ranken Jordan Pediatric Bridge Hospital provides innovative, family-centered care for children with complex medical needs bridging the gap from hospital to home with expert inpatient and outpatient therapies.

rankenjordan.org

Thanks, @airportwoman .

iirc, there is at least one "specialty hospital" in greater St. Louis -- patients are usually on a ventilator or have a feeding tube, as I understand it.

Very difficult for family to manage at home.

Could be wide of the mark, here, of course!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I posed some questions last evening, that I was hoping you would reply to. Realizing you have no personal knowledge, what might you take from the statement that she is stable and has been removed from ICU? I assume she is still comatose, because her mother did not say she has regained consciousness, but can you make any educated guesses about where she may be now as far as possibly coming out of her coma, or do you think she likely still is not repsonding to stimuli, etc? I take it you feel doctors probably still have no idea of the extent of her brain injury??

I can't say anything with even minimal certainty. There are too many unknowns.

For instance, she was moved out of ICU and is breathing on her own. No one knows if she's awake or not. She may have permanently lost the ability to speak. Or maybe she didn't. She may be awake, but severely brain damaged so all she can do is open her eyes. Can she even open her eyes? We don't know.

Or she may out of the ICU and is recovering nicely, but is still in a coma as her brain continues to heal.

We heard she had frontal lobe damage, so severe injury can be complicated cognitively. I also wonder if there was damage anywhere else (I didn't watch the video). The brain is literally responsible for everything. Damage to certain parts can result in hearing loss, blindness, inability to understand words, inability to speak, inability to walk, inability to stand, inability to go to the bathroom or incontinence, inability to use your hands or arms or legs and feet, among other things. There's just so many things we don't know.

I hope and pray her brain is healing and while she'll likely have some residual affects of a brain injury, I hope she recovers and is able to lead a normal life.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Perhaps you are correct. My experience has been primarily with people who had strokes, geriatric patients. They really want them out of the hospital within a week or so.

That's very different though. The injuries and illnesses that strike geriatric patients are typically the ones that don't improve with medical care and usually, after the acute event, there's no medical necessity for them to stay in the hospital.

In this case, the victim is still acutely ill. The brain doesn't heal that quickly. If she just regained the ability to breathe on her own, that means the body is in the active process of healing. To move someone so fragile to a LTC facility, which is a step down from a hospital, you put their life in danger. She could still code, have a blood clot, have a stroke or heart attack from the stress on her body, or you could impede further recovery. It's impossible to say without medical records, but from what we've read/know from her family, I'd say she'll be in the hospital quite a while longer and then whatever her new baseline is, she may need cognitive rehab, which will likely start while she's in the hospital prior to transfer. In the meantime, physical therapy at the hospital can work her muscles and as soon as she's able, they'll get her out of bed. She won't be transferred without these things.

Even a geriatric patient who had a brain injury like this one would likely remain in the hospital. They'd be too medically acute to transfer for now.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Perhaps Mickey was suggesting that she may in short order, if she's stable, be moved to a more permanent long-term care facility? (Not to speak for Mickey. That's how I read his comment.) It's my understanding that, absent a long-term care floor, wing, etc. that the hospital is usually used for more acute illnesses/sickness/ etc. At a certain point, insurance will start to push also. IMEO IMOO Maybe that's just been my experience??

Yes, but what I'm saying is that this is acute. We've heard no word that she's not still medically acute. This injury just happened. Breathing on your own doesn't mean you're no longer acute. Even if she opened her eyes, I would bet she won't be transferred until at least mid-April, unless she's doing better than we think.

 

[SteveP]

Article does not say who was aggressor in previous fight, but report indicates there are two rival groups of teens at the school, perhaps involved in both. Report does not indicate whether other student involved was also suspended, but it seems that perhaps the attack that put KG in a coma may have been a result or spill-over of actions that began the day before. JMO

Kaylee Gain was suspended from school for brawling with another student day before fracturing skull in fight: sources

Kaylee Gain, 16, remains unconscious after she squared off with another female teen about a mile away from Hazelwood East High School, which they both attend.

nypost.com

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Article does not say who was aggressor in previous fight, but report indicates there are two rival groups of teens at the school, perhaps involved in both. Report does not indicate whether other student involved was also suspended. Perhaps the attack that put KG in a coma was a result or spill-over of actions that began the day before. JMO

Kaylee Gain was suspended from school for brawling with another student day before fracturing skull in fight: sources

Kaylee Gain, 16, remains unconscious after she squared off with another female teen about a mile away from Hazelwood East High School, which they both attend.

nypost.com

Ugh! I wish they would stop beating around the bush with their trail of breadcrumbs

Sidenote, some of the comments under that article are disgusting.

 

[tlcya]

I'm confused. The NY post article states Kaylee was suspended from school the day before for a fight that occurred prior to the incident we saw video of.

If KG was suspended the day before did she not attend school the day of the latest confrontation? Did she go there purposefully to continue the confrontation from previous day?

If true, that might change my perspective and add more mitigators for the young lady who is accused/charged in this incident.

I would still think she was wrong and went waaay too far with slamming head on pavement. But if KG was a willing participant who went out of her way to continue a confrontation with the accused, that is not the same as being "jumped" and "attacked" as this incident has been described in initial reports MOO

rather I would consider that as being a participant in a fight that got out of control with injury as the result. JMO others mileage may vary.

I do still feel the accused knew or should have known (particularly if an honor student) that her actions of slamming KG's head into the pavement repeatedly could have serious results. I think I would still want to see accused charged as adult, but with as many mitigators as possible being taken into consideration as well.

 

[SteveP]

I'm confused. The NY post article states Kaylee was suspended from school the day before for a fight that occurred prior to the incident we saw video of.

If KG was suspended the day before did she not attend school the day of the latest confrontation? Did she go there purposefully to continue the confrontation from previous day?

If true, that might change my perspective and add more mitigators for the young lady who is accused/charged in this incident.

I would still think she was wrong and went waaay too far with slamming head on pavement. But if KG was a willing participant who went out of her way to continue a confrontation with the accused, that is not the same as being "jumped" and "attacked" as this incident has been described in initial reports MOO

rather I would consider that as being a participant in a fight that got out of control with injury as the result. JMO others mileage may vary.

I do still feel the accused knew or should have known (particularly if an honor student) that her actions of slamming KG's head into the pavement repeatedly could have serious results. I think I would still want to see accused charged as adult, but with as many mitigators as possible being taken into consideration as well.

You have voiced my own feelings perfectly..

 

[mickey2942]

MOO, is that without facts, there should not be any speculation, or discussion of justification for this assault.

Based on the known evidence, the video, one person was the perpetrator and one person, is the victim. The victim has been in a coma since the assault. Those are facts, supported by evidence.

<modsnip: moderating>

 

[tlcya]

No, DEI didn't 'contribute' to a violent assault that critically injured a Hazelwood East student

School district refutes Missouri Attorney General’s claims over fight video

This seems like so much soapboxing for attention. JMO a non issue.

The fight happened not during school hours and not on school grounds. the MO AG should acquaint himself with facts of the case and stop politicizing it to try to benefit from it.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

MOO, is that without facts, there should not be any speculation, or discussion of justification for this assault.

Based on the known evidence, the video, one person was the perpetrator and one person, is the victim. The victim has been in a coma since the assault. Those are facts, supported by evidence.

<modsnip: moderating>

<modsnip: not victim friendly/no source link>

None of that means she deserved what happened to her and none of it means MD should not be punished for her part in it, she should be and she will be, but we don't know that she is an put of control monster.

The known facts only support that she was out of control and went too far in that moment.

JMO.

 

[tlcya]

Kaylee Gain was suspended from school for fighting day before beating

I am waiting for more info to come out about the alleged events leading up to the confrontation, including alleged previous fight and suspension. If the most recent reporting in the NY Post is correct I imagine more info will come to light. this link simply parrots the post one but doesn't really provide any more info or reveal if the "sources" are credible.

My grandma used to say "it'll all come out in the warsh."

and I believe that to be true in this case.

 

[tlcya]

Spoiler: DISTURBING - unedited fight video from start to finish

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