Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[Talullah]

I think a lot of unrelated things happened the night and morning they disappeared. Whether the erased messages would've had any bearing on this depends on your suspect. It's messed up anyone listened to their messages-much less erased them-especially when no one knew they were missing.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I think the element of surprise negates how far each of the doors was open. WE know they should have been been cautious, they were possibly just opening a door. MM, you seem to be zeroing on keys and doors. So...if not the son, if not an ex of Suzie's, who else would be given a key?

I'm only going on my own experience. No way in the world is any sane person going to open up a door at 3:30 AM to anyone except someone who they trusted. That list of suspects is very, very small. I don't buy the gas leak ruse either. But someone, probably most people, would open the door to a cop. And that has even been floated within the department itself. I wouldn't rule that out.

I wouldn't rule out a stalker, a very clever serial killer who knows or has befriended the women who would be trusted. Just don't know who that would be although some names have been floated. I find it very, very hard, that the so called Grand Jury Three, with their backgrounds could have gotten into the house.

Then there is the matter of the jealous girlfriend who might have persuaded her boyfriend to get him in but I'm really not enamored of that idea either.

So we have the matter of the unaccounted key. I want to stress that one of the actual police officers who was assigned this case, told me personally that Suzie had no key to the side door on her key chain. That is not hearsay. It has to be accounted for somehow.

The story goes that new locks were installed in the house not too long before the women went missing. Another story is that she had it done twice and another story is that Sherrill did not allow Suzie to have the side door key as she had been careless about locking the door. That source is solid. I still want to know where the key went to. It is unrealistic to believe that a locksmith would only make one key for the door. Perhaps the locksmith/handyman kept it for himself. That idea has been floated.

It has been suggested that the sliding door to Suzie's bedroom could have been lifted off its tracks to get inside. I'm dubious about that. I guess it is possible. The police have told us that exit was from the front door and that's all they have told us.

To show the difficulty in trying to understand this case see the following: This is an excerpt of a news story from 2012.

In 2012 NCMEC visited Springfield for a prep presentation.

NCMEC looked at the house and traveled to different places the girls were the evening of June 6th.

The April 2012 presentation in DC lasted nearly 3 full days in front of a 25-person panel of criminal experts.

"We went over physical evidence that was collected at the scene

We went over the timelines of the victims. We also discussed some of the people looked at as possible suspects

There are people that we have looked at and are completely ruled out.

There are people we have looked at for the last 20 years and are still not completely ruled out.

The profession has improved so much since 1992, especially in the area of science, so is there a piece of DNA evidence out there that hasn't been tested or was tested years ago, but the process is better now that may lead us in a good direction?

"I will tell you that we are constantly reviewing evidence that is found at the scene and we will, I think, have the opportunity to have some things retested." (Link not now available but accurate)

So three days of intensive reinvestigation by these outside agencies didn't seem to move the ball. I keep hearing a confession is needed to solve the crime.

Finally, I worked with one of the police officers who searched the river and banks around the James River. He didn't know anything and I asked him several times. I also worked with another LE official who had an inside into the investigation and said it was "unsolvable" because the crime scene was contaminated. I argued and argued to no avail.

It is so frustrating.

I want to know where the other supposed key went to. I want to know who would be trusted enough to be allowed in the house. In no particular order.

1) Someone who had befriended one or both of the women prior to their going missing and who could logically be allowed in the house.

2) A cop.

3) A serial killer who knew what he was doing and could get into the house somehow, someway. Such a person would have looked at this very closely. We don't know who that would be but have someone I have strongly considered as a possibility. The date, June 7, suggests such a possibility of something. I'm always dubious of coincidences.

 

[TexasT]

Has the possible route from Battlefield to Delmar ever been narrowed down by any friends / family that would KNOW what route they Likely took ?
And the possibility of any stops ? Convient store ? Seems plauseable after a night of partying especially for described " heavy " smokers .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Missouri Mule]

Has the possible route from Battlefield to Delmar ever been narrowed down by any friends / family that would KNOW what route they Likely took ?
And the possibility of any stops ? Convient store ? Seems plauseable after a night of partying especially for described " heavy " smokers .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is unknown but it is 11.6 miles from Battlefield to the Delmar address. Personally I would have probably driven up the county road to Sunshine and this would intersect with Glenstone and the north to Delmar. But she may have been unsure being at night. There are other routes that existed but there has been a lot of road construction since then.

I used to live not far from Janelle's house in the 1970s and have a pretty good sense of the roads to take.

Alternatively they could have gone east on Republic road but unsure if it would intersect with Glenstone. Susie may have been unsure of what route that was at that time of night. There were various gas stations and convenience stores along the way.

If they left at 2:20 AM they should have arrived sometime after 2:45AM. But if any stops perhaps not until 3:00AM.

As I have asked, what time did the dog bark? Surely when they entered. That is actually very critical to know. We don't know if Sherrill or even the dog was there do we. All we know is that the dog was there when Janelle arrived. It could have been returned if taken at the same time Sherrill may have been taken.

 

[Jennibee]

If anyone is interested this link has 58 photos of 1717E Delmar and what it looks like today. I believe it has been remodelled but you get the idea.

Interestingly, new owners seem to have their dining table in same place - in front of double doors going into laundry room. This can be seen in a picture of Suzie and her friends with her graduation cake.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1717-E-Delmar-St-Springfield-MO-65804/50239821_zpid/



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[dexter75]

If anyone is interested this link has 58 photos of 1717E Delmar and what it looks like today. I believe it has been remodelled but you get the idea.

Interestingly, new owners seem to have their dining table in same place - in front of double doors going into laundry room. This can be seen in a picture of Suzie and her friends with her graduation cake.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1717-E-Delmar-St-Springfield-MO-65804/50239821_zpid/



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So erie and so SAD to look at that photo knowing what we know now😔
( the little we DO know anyway )

When studying missing person's cases throughout the years one of the first thoughts entering my mind is always

" their day started out just as my day is now...doing what he/she would typically be doing or whatever would need to be done "

Idk WHY but it always gives me chills when I think about it like that..
Anyone's life at any moment can and does change in the blink of an eye ya know?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Kittycat01]

Very eerie and sad looking at the photos of the house. It looks so peaceful and normal. If only walls could talk.

 

[Jennibee]

So erie and so SAD to look at that photo knowing what we know now[emoji17]
( the little we DO know anyway )

When studying missing person's cases throughout the years one of the first thoughts entering my mind is always

" their day started out just as my day is now...doing what he/she would typically be doing or whatever would need to be done "

Idk WHY but it always gives me chills when I think about it like that..
Anyone's life at any moment can and does change in the blink of an eye ya know?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Yeah definitely! That's why I found it so eerie seeing this picture of Suzie. She didn't know what lay ahead later that night.

So sad!

I'll add I'm on the other side of the Atlantic but this case bothers me most out of every case I follow.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Talullah]

I wonder how different things would be if Suzie had hung out with Nigel that night and not changed her plans.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Do we feel that the answer machine deleted messages would have held some importance? What about the obscene calls?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think that all of the calls that came to Delmar on graduation day and the day after are important. It could be a big coincidence that Sherrill and Suzie were getting obscene phone calls and then are abducted with Stacy from their home. But I would want to eliminate that possibility. Moreover, it's likely that whoever abducted the women wanted to monitor the situation at the house, to know when police were called out. Phone calls to a landline would have been one way to check. It's unbelievable that the scene was so contaminated. And I've often wondered if some of that contamination was not an accident.

 

[dexter75]

I think that all of the calls that came to Delmar on graduation day and the day after are important. It could be a big coincidence that Sherrill and Suzie were getting obscene phone calls and then are abducted with Stacy from their home. But I would want to eliminate that possibility. Moreover, it's likely that whoever abducted the women wanted to monitor the situation at the house, to know when police were called out. Phone calls to a landline would have been one way to check. It's unbelievable that the scene was so contaminated. And I've often wondered if some of that contamination was not an accident.

Your last sentence...
Same thoughts here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Blue Girl1991]

So erie and so SAD to look at that photo knowing what we know now
( the little we DO know anyway )

When studying missing person's cases throughout the years one of the first thoughts entering my mind is always

" their day started out just as my day is now...doing what he/she would typically be doing or whatever would need to be done "

Idk WHY but it always gives me chills when I think about it like that..
Anyone's life at any moment can and does change in the blink of an eye ya know?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

I agree , it is very chilling to think how missing people Engaged in daily life
, at work or just having fun , having a casual talk with a family member/a friend or with a seller at a store never imagine that soon they will vanished and their names and cases will be mentions in tv news , by their worried family and friends ,on the internet and forums when people will try to find them, and it's can happen to anyone.

It is so scary to think that some of the missing persons had the awareness
to other missing persons cases but now they are in the same horrible status like these people which they read or heard about.

Suzie's picture.... she looks so happy... very sad to look when we all know
how everthing changed and how reality led to such a tragic directions.

 

[dexter75]

I agree , it is very chilling to think how missing people Engaged in daily life
, at work or just having fun , having a casual talk with a family member/a friend or with a seller at a store never imagine that soon they will vanished and their names and cases will be mentions in tv news , by their worried family and friends ,on the internet and forums when people will try to find them, and it's can happen to anyone.

It is so scary to think that some of the missing persons had the awareness
to other missing persons cases but now they are in the same horrible status like these people which they read or heard about.

Suzie's picture.... she looks so happy... very sad to look when we all know
how everthing changed and how reality led to such a tragic directions.

Yes, you nailed it, Blue Girl!
My girls think I'm paranoid at times & tis sad in a way they will never experience that freedom that those of us who played till it got dark, went for walks, ( we played hide & seek at night with walkie talkies ) etc.
Anyway,
This case, 3 women...
Seems every scenario has been tossed around multiple times.
I too can't help but wonder ( was going to ask any locals yesterday and got busy ) about the clean up being not so
" accidental "
IF that were the case my question is..do we know exactly WHO it was who cleaned up the mess a bit before LE arrived? And would those individuals have reason to cover anything up/hide anything?
TIA & I apologize if this has already been covered.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Missouri Mule]

I am going to open up a can of worms that has received scant attention. I had a lengthy reply on my Ipad and for some reason the page reloaded and everything was lost.

In any event, let me set the scene.

Realistically, only three people would be trusted enough to get into the house. The son, the boyfriend and a cop. I can't think of anyone else who would.

That being said, if we temporarily rule out the son and the cop, we have the boyfriend. And we have a missing key.

It just so happens that there is an apparrent connection between the boyfriend and a long time criminal, Steve Garrison. I believe it is correct to say that they were friends and had an alleged drug connection. Don't want to get too far in the weeds just yet as this is being worked right now by a friend of mine.

Remember that we have a missing key. I don't know where it went to but it is not unrealistic that the boyfriend might have had it. But I tend to doubt that was the way to get into the house. But it is missing and unaccounted for. Who had it? Where was it?

Garrison was a suspect and claimed to be a source of information as to the location of the women's remains. Unfortunately nothing he ever provided proved out. He is in prison for life and is likely to die there.The circumstances of his trial were interesting in and of themselves. His lawyer was threatened by a biker of some kind and it would appear that the lawyer was intimidated and soon thereafter the trial ended in a conviction and Garrison went to the slammer. He was convicted of a vicious, heinous rape. The details of which are sickening.

Why is this important? Well, we know that there were three grave robbers, Recla, Clay and Riedel. Clay has been very vocal about this subject and we have heard zip from neither Recla nor Riedel. Clay evidently speaks for everyone. But Clay had little or nothing to do with Suzie or Sherrill as did Riedel. Only Recla.

As I understand it, both Recla and Clay were in Clay's apartment along with his sister. His sister was their alibi witness. On the surface it seems there was nothing there. But there seems to be a dispute as to Clay's sister's employment which may or may not be important. That is currently being looked at.

What I have been told by one of the reporters who got deep into this case was that Detectives Webb and Higdon wanted to look at the grave robbers more closely but were steered away. I have no idea why.

Recla got off with a slap on the wrist. Riedel turned states evidence. Clay skipped out of town and was later apprehended and did some hard time. He has cleaned up his life, married and now a responsible citizen. I have had many, many exchanges with him but never one with either Recla nor Riedel. In fact. Riedel went back to Illinois where he even changed his last name and disappeared into the mist. One wonders why? Why is Recla so reticent? I do not believe that Clay was in the loop.

My question is simply this. Do they have a reliable alibi? And a corollary question is what is the connection to Cox?

Cox and Garrison almost certainly knew one another as their statements were virtually identical in that the case could have been solved very easily in the beginning. Of course we have no idea what that might have been in that cops have never told us why they would say that. Cox's two letters have been published and I have hard copies. They may also be linked in one of the threads here.

Is any of this relevant? Can't say when people aren't talking.

Then it has to be back to the back-up theory that only a cop could be allowed into the house at that hour of night.

 

[Blue Girl1991]

Yes, you nailed it, Blue Girl!
My girls think I'm paranoid at times & tis sad in a way they will never experience that freedom that those of us who played till it got dark, went for walks, ( we played hide & seek at night with walkie talkies ) etc.
Anyway,
This case, 3 women...
Seems every scenario has been tossed around multiple times.
I too can't help but wonder ( was going to ask any locals yesterday and got busy ) about the clean up being not so
" accidental "
IF that were the case my question is..do we know exactly WHO it was who cleaned up the mess a bit before LE arrived? And would those individuals have reason to cover anything up/hide anything?
TIA & I apologize if this has already been covered.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

You just want your girls to be safe , in this world lots of concern and alertness are definitely Justified .


It's unbelievable but these perps had all the luck they could dream for,
the crime scene was so contaminated and crucial evidence erased,
After all these years None of the facts and the suspicions led to someone specific that the police could arrest. I think the perps didn't believed that 25 years from the date of the crime they will still be able to continue their lives , ( unless one of them are in prison for unrelated crime or dead?

 

[4SAM]

I just googled and found an old site where they named a man for this crime. MissouriMule can I inbox the comment to you?

 

[Blue Girl1991]

I am going to open up a can of worms that has received scant attention. I had a lengthy reply on my Ipad and for some reason the page reloaded and everything was lost.

In any event, let me set the scene.

Realistically, only three people would be trusted enough to get into the house. The son, the boyfriend and a cop. I can't think of anyone else who would.

That being said, if we temporarily rule out the son and the cop, we have the boyfriend. And we have a missing key.

It just so happens that there is an apparrent connection between the boyfriend and a long time criminal, Steve Garrison. I believe it is correct to say that they were friends and had an alleged drug connection. Don't want to get too far in the weeds just yet as this is being worked right now by a friend of mine.

Remember that we have a missing key. I don't know where it went to but it is not unrealistic that the boyfriend might have had it. But I tend to doubt that was the way to get into the house. But it is missing and unaccounted for. Who had it? Where was it?

Garrison was a suspect and claimed to be a source of information as to the location of the women's remains. Unfortunately nothing he ever provided proved out. He is in prison for life and is likely to die there.The circumstances of his trial were interesting in and of themselves. His lawyer was threatened by a biker of some kind and it would appear that the lawyer was intimidated and soon thereafter the trial ended in a conviction and Garrison went to the slammer. He was convicted of a vicious, heinous rape. The details of which are sickening.

Why is this important? Well, we know that there were three grave robbers, Recla, Clay and Riedel. Clay has been very vocal about this subject and we have heard zip from neither Recla nor Riedel. Clay evidently speaks for everyone. But Clay had little or nothing to do with Suzie or Sherrill as did Riedel. Only Recla.

As I understand it, both Recla and Clay were in Clay's apartment along with his sister. His sister was their alibi witness. On the surface it seems there was nothing there. But there seems to be a dispute as to Clay's sister's employment which may or may not be important. That is currently being looked at.

What I have been told by one of the reporters who got deep into this case was that Detectives Webb and Higdon wanted to look at the grave robbers more closely but were steered away. I have no idea why.

Recla got off with a slap on the wrist. Riedel turned states evidence. Clay skipped out of town and was later apprehended and did some hard time. He has cleaned up his life, married and now a responsible citizen. I have had many, many exchanges with him but never one with either Recla nor Riedel. In fact. Riedel went back to Illinois where he even changed his last name and disappeared into the mist. One wonders why? Why is Recla so reticent? I do not believe that Clay was in the loop.

My question is simply this. Do they have a reliable alibi? And a corollary question is what is the connection to Cox?

Cox and Garrison almost certainly knew one another as their statements were virtually identical in that the case could have been solved very easily in the beginning. Of course we have no idea what that might have been in that cops have never told us why they would say that. Cox's two letters have been published and I have hard copies. They may also be linked in one of the threads here.

Is any of this relevant? Can't say when people aren't talking.

Then it has to be back to the back-up theory that only a cop could be allowed into the house at that hour of night.

Beyond all the facts, what is your gut feeling regarding Clay and Recla?
do you think there is a chance that Recla and Clay although maybe didn't participate but knows why the crime happened?

I can't let go of my feeling that Recla and Clay connections with higher criminals led to the crime, even without their Prior information about the planned crime , but I can't stop thinking that they know why it's happened and even maybe who gave the order, maybe I blame them for nothing but it's just strong gut feeling that I have and considering the fact that they probably knew dangerous people.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I just googled and found an old site where they named a man for this crime. MissouriMule can I inbox the comment to you?

By all means.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Beyond all the facts, what is your gut feeling regarding Clay and Recla?
do you think that there is a chance that Recla and Clay although maybe didn't participate but knows why the crime happened?

I can't let go of my feeling that Recla and Clay connections with higher criminals led to the crime, even without their Prior information about the planned crime , but I can't stop thinking that they know why it's happened and even maybe who gave the order, maybe I blame them for nothing but it's just strong gut feeling that I have and considering the fact that they probably knew dangerous people.

This is so aggravating but on this one site, my Ipad keeps reloading the page and I lose all my write-up. Back to the old reliable PC.

I doubt that Clay had anything to do with it. Recla, probably not, but he would be "trusted."

Their alibis were from Clay's sister and I'm not sure I am comfortable with that.

Much of this could be cleared up if Recla would speak up. But he has totally clammed up. No one hears squat from Riedel, the third one.

Garrison, one of the three GJ3, had a long criminal history and committed one of the most heinous rapes I have ever read about. Disgusting in the extreme. He's out of the picture and may know something but everything he has provided has come up empty.

What is not in question is that the police department ran one of the most incompetent investigations in history, in my opinion.

Garrison was a suspect, but he was gotten out of jail on a small bond and taken to a hotel, for whatever reason, and he escaped and went on to rape the college student. The sense of that escapes my understanding.

He is connected to the other two from their stay at the facility in Eldorado, Kansas and were on the street at the time the women went missing. I have seen their rap sheets and they are not candidates for the local church choir. Two are in the slammer and one is still on the street according to the last information I have.

As to the thrust of your question, i do not believe they have told all they know. I would speculate someone is fearing having to face the death penalty which is legal in the state of Missouri.

I am beginning to think perhaps there may not be a higher ramrod directing this. There just isn't the proof and may in the end require a confessions. This case has been looked at by other LE agencies and came up empty. But I would put the major part of the blame on the (IMO) incompetent police department management.

If none of this is true then we would have to consider a stalker/killer or even a cop. I see no other reasonable explanations, unless it grew out of the drug trade in the area and somehow someone got involved for profit, or what they knew. I cannot speak to that because I do not know. Lots of rumors, little facts.

 

[4SAM]

By all means.

Ok, I just sent it to you. Let me know what you think and I will leave it up to you if you want to mention that person in this thread.