Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #8

[asyousay]

Every theory should be discussed even if people don’t see eye to eye on every theory that is being discussed.

If this case was that simple then it wouldn’t be unsolved after 27 years.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Does LE believe this view as well?

How do you know the obvious suspects have been eliminated as I thought there was about 12 suspects to this case. Since when have all of these 12 been completely cleared?

Just because there has been no arrest does not mean they are not viable suspects. The case was completely botched from the get go.

You seem to believe what some of the suspects have told you at face value. Why do you think people like Michael Clay would tell you the truth?

It’s not like you are a detective and have any power over them to make them tell the truth.

IMO

Well, I will do my best to allay your doubts.

Although I was not a professional police officer, most of my employment was that of “investigating.”

I probably talked on the phone, in person and by correspondence to perhaps 50,000 people. I could spot a liar in the first 10 seconds. One gets good at what they do all of the time.

People who lie give off signals when they are dodging questions. They often answer questions with questions and do not like direct questions. Once they stake out a position, they have to further lie to cover up previous lies.

This is why I make it a practice never to lie. I don’t have to remember what I lied about. This is why timelines are the bedrock of good investigations. And there have been so many timelines by various sources it is maddening. Think about it.

The party on Hanover was broken up at 1:50 AM. It is the equivalent of 57 city blocks back west to the Battlefield address. A reasonable time to get there would be about 15 minutes to get there and then decide the prior arrangements wouldn’t work. That brings it up to about 2:10 AM and according to Janell’s mother she heard them leave about 2:20 AM. It is 11.6 miles from there to the Delmar address. Assuming no undue delays it was impossible to have arrived there before 2:30 AM. More likely about 2:45 AM. Accounting for the removal of clothing and make-up they might have been in bed by 3:00AM more likely. That is a three hour window of opportunity to kidnap them as sunrise was at 5:53 AM.

But “civic” sunrise was one hour earlier. So that cuts it to about two hours.

My question is this. How could a carefully orchestrated plan be carried out in that period of time especially since the girls weren’t supposed to be there to begin with?

Which leads me back to the single male predator theory.

 

[asyousay]

Well, I will do my best to allay your doubts.

Although I was not a professional police officer, most of my employment was that of “investigating.”

I probably talked on the phone, in person and by correspondence to perhaps 50,000 people. I could spot a liar in the first 10 seconds. One gets good at what they do all of the time.

People who lie give off signals when they are dodging questions. They often answer questions with questions and do not like direct questions. Once they stake out a position, they have to further lie to cover up previous lies.

This is why I make it a practice never to lie. I don’t have to remember what I lied about. This is why timelines are the bedrock of good investigations. And there have been so many timelines by various sources it is maddening. Think about it.

The party on Hanover was broken up at 1:50 AM. It is the equivalent of 57 city blocks back west to the Battlefield address. A reasonable time to get there would be about 15 minutes to get there and then decide the prior arrangements wouldn’t work. That brings it up to about 2:10 AM and according to Janell’s mother she heard them leave about 2:20 AM. It is 11.6 miles from there to the Delmar address. Assuming no undue delays it was impossible to have arrived there before 2:30 AM. More likely about 2:45 AM. Accounting for the removal of clothing and make-up they might have been in bed by 3:00AM more likely. That is a three hour window of opportunity to kidnap them as sunrise was at 5:53 AM.

But “civic” sunrise was one hour earlier. So that cuts it to about two hours.

My question is this. How could a carefully orchestrated plan be carried out in that period of time especially since the girls weren’t supposed to be there to begin with?

Which leads me back to the single male predator theory.

Thank you for the explaination on your work.

Why would a single male predator see 3 cars and assume that 3 women lived there?

There surely had to have been some kind of staking out of the property before hand and then if a 3rd unknown car was present why would this male pick that night?

 

[Brubeck]

My question is this. How could a carefully orchestrated plan be carried out in that period of time especially since the girls weren’t supposed to be there to begin with?

But what if they had come for only Sherrill, and a careful orchestration turned to situational necessity once the two girls were found to be there? If there were two - or more, maybe a familiar face to get them in the door - perps, how long would strong men with guns need to herd out three surprised women?

 

[asyousay]

I don’t believe that this perp/perps were in the House when the girls got home.

Let’s be honest we have all been teenagers and I certainly know that when I came in late from a night out my parent/parents would come out and speak to me. Parents worry and want to know their kids have gotten home ok and so they always checked up on me when I walked though the door.

Then add in Sherrill wasn’t expecting Suzie to bring over a friend to stay the night either. The fact the girls casually got ready for bed to me indicates all was well when they arrived home.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Thank you for the explaination on your work.

Why would a single male predator see 3 cars and assume that 3 women lived there?

There surely had to have been some kind of staking out of the property before hand and then if a 3rd unknown car was present why would this male pick that night?

It wouldn’t necessarily have mattered. He may have scoped out Suzie and it was her he enticed out of the house. He may not have known there was a third person was there until he asked Suzie. Then he realized he couldn’t leave any witnesses.

I don’t understand why it is believed that the house was staked out. Why would that be necessary if this was a spontaneous event?

 

[scadagirl28]

Actually, I heard/read she couldn't get the inside light to work and bumbled around til she found a lamp to switch on. The way I understand it, the TV was on, like someone had watched a video, left a 'white' screen.
Was it at 7 or 10? I've read both![/QUOTE

It could be the author but I interpreted it as the outside light.

 

[asyousay]

It wouldn’t necessarily have mattered. He may have scoped out Suzie and it was her he enticed out of the house. He may not have known there was a third person was there until he asked Suzie. Then he realized he couldn’t leave any witnesses.

I don’t understand why it is believed that the house was staked out. Why would that be necessary if this was a spontaneous event?

“A neighbor living near Levitt’s former home (it was sold last week) told police when he was re-contacted this week that a dirty white van had cruised the neighborhood for up to three weeks before the disappearances, detective David Asher said.”



“The driver was described as a white male in his mid-20’s to mid-30’s. He wore prominent sideburns and kept a mane of brown-hair pulled away from his face, Asher said. The witness recalled that the driver wore sleeveless T-shirts.

This actually fits the photo of the suspect I saw a photo of last night to some extent.

 

[Ozoner]

The Chief of Police personally ruled the grave robbers early on among others.

I was picking his brains for ideas not that we were good friends.

Please don’t characterize what I said as an endorsement of their behavior.

Information often comes from those who run in the circles of those who would know.

He is not a person of interest.

BBM

I disagree.

Being "cleared" by a police chief means nothing. I have lost count of how many times someone was "cleared" and later turned out to be the culprit.

Gary Ridgeway was one of the first people interviewed and "cleared" when the Green River killings started. He was the last person seen with one of the early victims but was a smooth talker. He went on to kill at least forty more women.

 

[asyousay]

<modsnip: snipped quote that was removed>


Anything I have said about Janelle or Mike have been backed up.

Here are some facts!

Janelle contaminated a crime scene , she was one of the last known people to see the two girls alive. She went into a home she had never been in before completely uninvited. She answered the telephone which she had no grounds to do so.

Her boyfriend swipe up evidence and removed it from the property into a business bin next door.

She referred to Suzie as “that girl” in a tv interview but then claims they were friends. That’s a funny expression to use for a close friend isn’t it!!

She changed her story on where the dust pan and brush came from that they cleaned up the glass on the porch. If she was telling the truth it shouldn’t be that hard to remember if you got it from inside the home or under the carport.

 

[k-mac]

well gee hmmwhoknows what do you want to discuss here???

the last known people to see them and contaminate the crimescene is off topic in your book even though these things are the last know FACTS there actually are.

now you don't want to talk about the mysterious boogie man who went puff in the night either????

doesn't leave much

your bias opinion supports a closer connection to these people than you state. jmo
that's ok but don't throw around that everything pertaining to them is lies and lies and lies.
I havent seen anybody here state anything unjustifiable to discuss.

anything that is in msm is websleuths approved so dissecting the teenagers statements and interviews is what we do here…... zero defamation matter. keep it real.

the only speculation going on atm is the possibility of suzie being pregnant. and that can not be proved or disproved without an autopsy.
so again...its fair to discuss wether it tickles your personal fancy or not.

 

[asyousay]

An FBI violent crime specialist theorizes that three missing women were abducted by someone at least one of them trusted, and the abductor probably had help from one or more others.

So a FBI agent thought at least one of the people who did this knew the women. Also doesn’t believe this was the act of one individual.

 

[HmmWhoKnows]

Anything I have said about Janelle or Mike have been backed up.

Here are some facts!

Janelle contaminated a crime scene , she was one of the last known people to see the two girls alive. She went into a home she had never been in before completely uninvited. She answered the telephone which she had no grounds to do so.

Her boyfriend swipe up evidence and removed it from the property into a business bin next door.

She referred to Suzie as “that girl” in a tv interview but then claims they were friends. That’s a funny expression to use for a close friend isn’t it!!

She changed her story on where the dust pan and brush came from that they cleaned up the glass on the porch. If she was telling the truth it shouldn’t be that hard to remember if you got it from inside the home or under the carport.

No, she said "went over to the other girl's house" and if you watch the video of the interview, she obviously looks like she's crying and upset about a friend who went missing. Not nearly as nefarious as you want and others want to believe.

This theory has so many holes in it.

Answer this then, is Asher just playing some "long game" with Janelle? I believe he was even in attendance at her wedding. Why is the lead detective buddies with a "suspect?" Why might that be the case? And think about it, because this can't be both ways. Think about it hard and see if you notice something that is extra weird about this.

Why is Janis still friends with Janelle and commenting on her pictures? And shown pictured with her kids? Do you think Janis knows who did this? Do you think the cops talk to her about who did it?

 

[HmmWhoKnows]

If you guys think Janelle and Mike are being nefarious in their actions, you need to prove it.

Repeating "but they swept up the glass!!!!!" over and over and banging your head gets nowhere. Okay. We got it. They swept up evidence.

What's your next step? If this is your theory, work it then. Let's see something beyond the initial suspicion.

 

[asyousay]

]If you guys think Janelle and Mike are being nefarious in their actions, you need to prove it.

Repeating "but they swept up the glass!!!!!" over and over and banging your head gets nowhere. Okay. We got it. They swept up evidence.

What's your next step? If this is your theory, work it then. Let's see something beyond the initial suspicion.

We have proved it, their actions are not normal and if it needs repeating time and time again I am happy to do so.


At least Janis McCall has had the balls to
admit that they shouldn’t of been in that house that day and she was extremely uncomfortable being there from the get go.

Janelle from reports I have read oddly has never shown such remorse about her actions that day.

You confirmed yourself that Mike Hensen knew the grave robbers so that’s one of my theory’s.


ETA - also for all Janelle claiming they were friends it’s funny how in the 3 months Suzie lived at that new address that Janelle had never been inside that house.

 

[Missouri Mule]

So a FBI agent thought at least one of the people who did this knew the women. Also doesn’t believe this was the act of one individual.

I could be mistaken but I believe that was the original analysis back about 1992.

The last known analysis (at least known to me ) suggests a sungle perpetrator — “kidnapper.”

 

[Sillybilly]

Stop the bickering and rudeness in this thread.

Also, no individual member controls the discussion. If something obviously violates TOS (i.e. off topic, rude, etc), use the Alert feature to let Mods/Admin review the matter and make a decision, but don't try to moderate the thread by telling others how or what to post.

Thanks.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I agree about fresh approach but pushing rumors and wild speculation is damaging in other ways beyond the case. You guys are slamming potentially innocent people throwing their names around and making accusations.

Providing some kind of supporting proof to your theory isn't asking for much.

Also, I wasn't the first to get hostile. The "MooseMeMuch" person brought up "boogieman" comment that was uncalled for and got us nowhere. Help me understand why that is allowed but backing up your theories is not?

A lot of things already on several of these threads that would be grounds for Janelle, Mike H., Mike C., and Dustin to file a lawsuit. Just saying, you need to be careful with the accusations. It's not fair if these are innocent people.

Although it is arguable that these people are “public” people having been so widely discussed it is also undeniably true that continually bringing up their names to trash could potentially lead to a lawsuit.

If people do not believe that, perhaps they would like to publish their actual names and then be raked over the coals. The two questions I would ask is where did the broom and dust pan come from and where did the glass shards get placed?

For what it is worth, it is my understanding the glass shards (of the broken globe) were recovered and are with the Missouri State Highwat Patrol.

 

[Talullah]

Did Nigel go to school with Suzie and Stacy?

 

[asyousay]

No, she said "went over to the other girl's house" and if you watch the video of the interview, she obviously looks like she's crying and upset about a friend who went missing. Not nearly as nefarious as you want and others want to believe.

This theory has so many holes in it.

Answer this then, is Asher just playing some "long game" with Janelle? I believe he was even in attendance at her wedding. Why is the lead detective buddies with a "suspect?" Why might that be the case? And think about it, because this can't be both ways. Think about it hard and see if you notice something that is extra weird about this.

Why is Janis still friends with Janelle and commenting on her pictures? And shown pictured with her kids? Do you think Janis knows who did this? Do you think the cops talk to her about who did it?

If you think that’s how a friend refers to another close friend then nothing I can say will change your mind.

I find it distasteful that in one breath Janelle claims they are close friends but in a video does not even have the common curtesy to refer to her friend by name which is Suzie. The friend that has been kidnapped and more than likely killed by this stage.

I have never claimed she killed them but I think she knows something.

IMO