Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #9

[k-mac]

JW’s mom dated Garrison. Not JR. not Clay’s

Scooby I gave you Newsleader article on Riedel being in town.

There’s something to the GRs and Garrison. No speculation. Speculation is running wild with theories about Janelle and driving cars back and saying Levitt caught mid transit and murdered along with vacuuming fibers and staging a crime scene. That’s wild speculation. Might as well say aliens did it.

I’m dealing in facts.

no there is no wild speculation going on about mike and Janelle.
simply facts.
if you choose to overlook these things that's your choice.
doesn't eliminate their validity to the situation.

I am listening to your projectile on the grave robbers also.

it all is valuable and relevant at this point in time.

these two "running horses" are the closest things to the truth imo we have going for the case.

personally I think there is a link with BOTH "running horses' possibly but sit at its a much smaller crime involvement then is being speculated .

jmo

 

[asyousay]

I think this all comes down to Suzie this crime.

If this was about Sherill then she was home alone for many hours and yet as far as we are aware there was no rape or anything of that nature. So a sexual predator to me doesn’t add up.

Then no money taken (as far as we are aware) so that seemingly rules out robbery.

So we are left with revenge and the only one of the 3 victims that we are aware of that had any enemies was Suzie.

Sherill was apprently very well liked and almost like Mother Teresa. Stacey was also apparently a popular girl as well.

IMO

 

[MooseMeMuch]

The one thing I will say is this, I don't think Michael Clay committed this crime. No "Sane Person" that was just part of a triple abduction and presumed triple homicides, would have ever made the excited utterance to the detective of, "I hope those B's are dead". He would have to have been off he ever loving rocker to have made that statement if he was directly involved.

But I also find it weird that Mike Recla, Dustins brother is being a at the crime scene in the days following its discovery, with a crowd of other people and makes the statement of, "I hope they find out who did this before someone ends up hurt/dead (I can't remember if he said hurt or dead). But regardless, he makes the statement, in my humble opinion, like he either knows or has some knowledge of what happened to them.

Do I think Clay may have been on the outskirts of this crime. Yes it is a distinct possibility. But only a complete nutbag crazy person with no brain, would ever make the statement that he did to the detective, if he had actually committed the crime "First Hand".

Oops. Got myself all tangled up last night......note to self....when seconds away from falling asleep, do not post a comment on WS.


I agree, Clay would have to be a nutbag crazy person with no brain, to say such a thing. I have a mental pic of him mentally paddling backwards when he finds out they're missing. Bet the interviewer enjoyed himself too much on that one!

Recla's brother...another dumb comment. Well, at least he showed concern for the women vs saying "I don't mean to call anyone a liar but....." But then again, you could be onto something, anything's possible. And I do mean 'anything'.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Joseph Riedel was in fact in town.

NL, Missing, Day 24:

"The 21 year old man, Joseph Riedel, is jailed in Illinois awaiting extradition to Springfield on a fugitive warrant for institutional vandalism. The fugitive was believed to be in town when the three disappeared from Levitt's home. The fugitive is held in Lake County,IL jail on a fugitive bond of $100,000. He was arrested in Mundlein, IL, about 50 miles north of Chicago. Officials would not say if he lives there, nor would they explain the $100,000 bond. A June 22 Greene County warrant placed a $10,000 bond on him for the vandalism charge."

Just so I understand this correctly, "in town" means Springfield? He was brought back to Springfield for certain where as my recollection is that the police said they expected to clear him. I have always found that somewhat confusing. My understanding is that not too long after the vandalism that he left for Illinois and had not been back. Perhaps my information was inaccurate and was, if in fact he was in Springfield on the morning of June 7, 1992.

If that is true why would the police "expect" to clear him? Seems as though he would be a prime suspect. My recollection is that almost no press was given to him at the time; only that there was a third person involved in the vandalism.

 

[asyousay]

Oops. Got myself all tangled up last night......note to self....when seconds away from falling asleep, do not post a comment on WS.


I agree, Clay would have to be a nutbag crazy person with no brain, to say such a thing. I have a mental pic of him mentally paddling backwards when he finds out they're missing. Bet the interviewer enjoyed himself too much on that one!

Recla's brother...another dumb comment. Well, at least he showed concern for the women vs saying "I don't mean to call anyone a liar but....." But then again, you could be onto something, anything's possible. And I do mean 'anything'.

I don’t think Clay has to be stupid to say that, it was the heat of the moment. He certainly meant it as well no doubt in my mind.

It’s always stood out how angry the 3 men were over what suzie did to them and still were even after they had been murdered. It’s always stood out for me due to the fact he didn’t even have any compassion for Stacey who was a completely in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I would like to discuss the alibis of the vandals.

If Riedel was in Springfield what would his alibi have been? So far as I am aware Recla and Clay were at some concert most of the night and then crashed in Clay's apartment. His sister was his alibi if my memory is correct. I have read her account and it seems credible.

Having said that I was told personally by one of the reporters to the News-Leader that one of the prime detectives, Sgt. Webb at the time, wanted to look very seriously at the vandals and was steered away from that which I understand, as he put it a "career ender." I also believe that Greg Higdon, who has moved up the ranks wished to do that as well. The last I heard Webb was the sheriff up in Cedar County, I believe. Always had a high opinion of him although we have never spoken personally. I have, however, talked to Dave Asher about another matter and I'll characterize it as not friendly.

 

[asyousay]

I would like to discuss the alibis of the vandals.

If Riedel was in Springfield what would his alibi have been? So far as I am aware Recla and Clay were at some concert most of the night and then crashed in Clay's apartment. His sister was his alibi if my memory is correct. I have read her account and it seems credible.

Having said that I was told personally by one of the reporters to the News-Leader that one of the prime detectives, Sgt. Webb at the time, wanted to look very seriously at the vandals and was steered away from that which I understand, as he put it a "career ender." I also believe that Greg Higdon, who has moved up the ranks wished to do that as well. The last I heard Webb was the sheriff up in Cedar County, I believe. Always had a high opinion of him although we have never spoken personally. I have, however, talked to Dave Asher about another matter and I'll characterize it as not friendly.

A family member vouching for brother hardly seems that credible. Also unless she slept in her brothers room then he could of easily of left the premises.

 

[SpringfieldMan341]

I would like to discuss the alibis of the vandals.

If Riedel was in Springfield what would his alibi have been? So far as I am aware Recla and Clay were at some concert most of the night and then crashed in Clay's apartment. His sister was his alibi if my memory is correct. I have read her account and it seems credible.

Having said that I was told personally by one of the reporters to the News-Leader that one of the prime detectives, Sgt. Webb at the time, wanted to look very seriously at the vandals and was steered away from that which I understand, as he put it a "career ender." I also believe that Greg Higdon, who has moved up the ranks wished to do that as well. The last I heard Webb was the sheriff up in Cedar County, I believe. Always had a high opinion of him although we have never spoken personally. I have, however, talked to Dave Asher about another matter and I'll characterize it as not friendly.

A dirty cop or two perhaps? Career ender is a weird way to put it.

Riedel has NO ALIBI as far as I know. Then you have Clay and Recla at the parties, were they really there?

Webb, I believe is chief of Bolivar now. Or was last I checked.

And Garrison hears people mention this "at a party?" But what party? Garrison was hanging out with R S and J**i and JW. So what parties is he attending and with who? I have good sources that he is GGMC-affiliated so I can speculate there, but I won't. Either way, Garrison associated with a rough crowd as two of his fellow inmate buddies were summoned for questioning...........

 

[SpringfieldMan341]

I think this all comes down to Suzie this crime.

If this was about Sherill then she was home alone for many hours and yet as far as we are aware there was no rape or anything of that nature. So a sexual predator to me doesn’t add up.

Then no money taken (as far as we are aware) so that seemingly rules out robbery.

So we are left with revenge and the only one of the 3 victims that we are aware of that had any enemies was Suzie.

Sherill was apprently very well liked and almost like Mother Teresa. Stacey was also apparently a popular girl as well.

IMO

The worst thing you can do in this case is make assumptions. IMO.

I think Ms. Levitt was indeed the primary target. Suzie was a secondary target and Stacy was collateral damage. It's the only thing that makes sense with the girls' last minute change in plans. I doubt some stalker followed them home given what we know about the case. Suzie parking weird was because she drove past the house and someone was in the driveway already.....IMO

I think Ms. Levitt's background is key. We keep talking about the girls' and all these wild random speculations about the parties but the crime happened at the house and Ms. Levitt is unaccounted for for a few hours before the girls. Why did Ms. Levitt skip going to the Kirby's house? Was she going out with a man?

We know Bartt's dad and Bartt and Suzie's step dad were both "ROUGH" types, that used to "smack her around" a bit and have problems with drinking (Bartt's own words).

So did that kind of pattern change when Sherrill divorced Don Levitt? Did she find a new "rough type" she was into?

 

[asyousay]

The worst thing you can do in this case is make assumptions. IMO.

I think Ms. Levitt was indeed the primary target. Suzie was a secondary target and Stacy was collateral damage. It's the only thing that makes sense with the girls' last minute change in plans. I doubt some stalker followed them home given what we know about the case. Suzie parking weird was because she drove past the house and someone was in the driveway already.....IMO

I think Ms. Levitt's background is key. We keep talking about the girls' and all these wild random speculations about the parties but the crime happened at the house and Ms. Levitt is unaccounted for for a few hours before the girls. Why did Ms. Levitt skip going to the Kirby's house? Was she going out with a man?

We know Bartt's dad and Bartt and Suzie's step dad were both "ROUGH" types, that used to "smack her around" a bit and have problems with drinking (Bartt's own words).

So did that kind of pattern change when Sherrill divorced Don Levitt? Did she find a new "rough type" she was into?

I just don’t buy Sherill as the primary target.

If it was about Sherill then she could of easily raped and killed before the girls had even gotten home in the early hours of the morning.

This all went down when the girls got home so that would indicate it was not Sherilll who was the target imo

There is absolutely no sign that a sexual predator was in that home before the girls arrived home. Why wasn’t Sherill raped between the hours of 12am/3am if this was a sexually motivated attack on her?

Sexual predators don’t just wait around for hours on end. They get in and they get out in the quickest time possible before they are caught.

 

[Missouri Mule]

A family member vouching for brother hardly seems that credible. Also unless she slept in her brothers room then he could of easily of left the premises.

I agree with that logic but as I was informed directly by the reporter the chief of police personally cleared them although as I said earlier very little to nothing was said about Riedel. Along about 1998, the prosecutor expressed considerable displeasure with the chief over his handling of the case and made a rather strange declaration that there was no lead detective handing the case he could go to. That was in newspaper accounts. He also wanted the individuals found who were allegedly at George's that night. It had always been my understanding that Asher was the lead detective. Odd.

That fall I received information about a possible suspect and two mug shots; one of which was taken immediately to the police station. Both Knowles and Asher came down to the front desk to get it, took it and left, saying little. It was at a later time I saw in the early morning a similar van, blue in color, but otherwise identical, that I reported to the police. Asher came on the (private) phone and threatened my job as I was "interfering" with the investigation. He was nothing like the way he came across in the "48 Hours" program or in later programs. That has always troubled me.

Not long afterwards, a former police officer who was seen in the "48 Hours" piece, came to work for our agency. I asked him personally what information he had and he said he had no information about the case. He later went on to get his law degree and last I heard was practicing law in Springfield.

A lot of odd things about this case have always troubled me.

 

[Missouri Mule]

The worst thing you can do in this case is make assumptions. IMO.

I think Ms. Levitt was indeed the primary target. Suzie was a secondary target and Stacy was collateral damage. It's the only thing that makes sense with the girls' last minute change in plans. I doubt some stalker followed them home given what we know about the case. Suzie parking weird was because she drove past the house and someone was in the driveway already.....IMO

I think Ms. Levitt's background is key. We keep talking about the girls' and all these wild random speculations about the parties but the crime happened at the house and Ms. Levitt is unaccounted for for a few hours before the girls. Why did Ms. Levitt skip going to the Kirby's house? Was she going out with a man?

We know Bartt's dad and Bartt and Suzie's step dad were both "ROUGH" types, that used to "smack her around" a bit and have problems with drinking (Bartt's own words).

So did that kind of pattern change when Sherrill divorced Don Levitt? Did she find a new "rough type" she was into?

I understood that it was her boyfriends who had "smacked her around." Not her father or stepfather.

 

[Missouri Mule]

The worst thing you can do in this case is make assumptions. IMO.

I think Ms. Levitt was indeed the primary target. Suzie was a secondary target and Stacy was collateral damage. It's the only thing that makes sense with the girls' last minute change in plans. I doubt some stalker followed them home given what we know about the case. Suzie parking weird was because she drove past the house and someone was in the driveway already.....IMO

I think Ms. Levitt's background is key. We keep talking about the girls' and all these wild random speculations about the parties but the crime happened at the house and Ms. Levitt is unaccounted for for a few hours before the girls. Why did Ms. Levitt skip going to the Kirby's house? Was she going out with a man?

We know Bartt's dad and Bartt and Suzie's step dad were both "ROUGH" types, that used to "smack her around" a bit and have problems with drinking (Bartt's own words).

So did that kind of pattern change when Sherrill divorced Don Levitt? Did she find a new "rough type" she was into?

On the parking matter, it would follow that Sherrill would need to get her car out of the carport where Suzie normally parked according to her best friend, Nigel Holderby. Since Suzie was unexpected, she may have realized that she would have to leave room for Sherrill to back up to get out of the carport. Normally, I would think that Suzie would pull in off of Glenstone coming west a short half block and then turn in at the east side of the driveway and then drive straight into the carport. Since Sherrill had no expectation that Suzie would be coming home Sherrill may have used that opportunity to park her own car in the carport.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I just don’t buy Sherill as the primary target.

If it was about Sherill then she could of easily raped and killed before the girls had even gotten home in the early hours of the morning.

This all went down when the girls got home so that would indicate it was not Sherilll who was the target imo

There is absolutely no sign that a sexual predator was in that home before the girls arrived home. Why wasn’t Sherill raped between the hours of 12am/3am if this was a sexually motivated attack on her?

Sexual predators don’t just wait around for hours on end. They get in and they get out in the quickest time possible before they are caught.

I'm not clear on why someone was there prior to the girl's arrival.

To my mind, it is entirely plausible, that a predator merely followed the girls home, half tanked up and enticed Suzie to come out of the house and Sherrill got up to check on the commotion. I personally believe that they were out of the house and it was necessary to into the house to get Stacy since a third car was in the driveway indicating three people were there.

 

[Missouri Mule]

The worst thing you can do in this case is make assumptions. IMO.

I think Ms. Levitt was indeed the primary target. Suzie was a secondary target and Stacy was collateral damage. It's the only thing that makes sense with the girls' last minute change in plans. I doubt some stalker followed them home given what we know about the case. Suzie parking weird was because she drove past the house and someone was in the driveway already.....IMO

I think Ms. Levitt's background is key. We keep talking about the girls' and all these wild random speculations about the parties but the crime happened at the house and Ms. Levitt is unaccounted for for a few hours before the girls. Why did Ms. Levitt skip going to the Kirby's house? Was she going out with a man?

We know Bartt's dad and Bartt and Suzie's step dad were both "ROUGH" types, that used to "smack her around" a bit and have problems with drinking (Bartt's own words).

So did that kind of pattern change when Sherrill divorced Don Levitt? Did she find a new "rough type" she was into?

Can you expand on what the motive was to make Sherrill a primary target? I'm not getting that part. A good friend who has exchanged dozens of conversations and knew her well walked with her just three days before she went missing. He said she was "not that kind of woman" to have gotten involved in illicit dealings. I'd like to see the motive but thus far I haven't seen one except some young man out looking to have a good time. To my mind that is the motive.

 

[asyousay]

I'm not clear on why someone was there prior to the girl's arrival.

To my mind, it is entirely plausible, that a predator merely followed the girls home, half tanked up and enticed Suzie to come out of the house and Sherrill got up to check on the commotion. I personally believe that they were out of the house and it was necessary to into the house to get Stacy since a third car was in the driveway indicating three people were there.

Why wait until the girls got home if this was a random man who just spotted one of the girls driving along that night?

It’s the middle of the night and the girls were in separate cars so if I was a sexual predator why would I let Suzie or Stacey (no idea who he would of spotted first) reach their destination when for all this predator knows they have a 200 lb dad at home with a shot gun?

You would obviously try and run them off the road as nobody would be out and see them that time of the night and see what was happening. It seems ridiculous this random predator would just happily let them reach home and then break in not knowing who that 3rd car belonged to.

 

[SpringfieldMan341]

Sherrill was the target based on all the evidence. Suzie would have figured it all out and could ID the perp. They had to "go." IMO.

Missouri Mule, your friend of Ms. Levitt, did he know anything about her dating and private time when Suzie was working or at school? Surely she did more than just cut hair. When someone describes someone as "being a hermit" that means they don't really know much about them at all.

Levitt had to have had fun somewhere. You're telling me someone who dates wild dudes who smack her around a bit just suddenly stopped the year she disappeared? Likely not. Do not confused that with victim blaming! I am saying she had likely ran across some rough guys again. Obviously she did.

Delmar and FBI agent James Wright saying the perps knew the "comings and goings" of the women tell me that the Sherrill and Suzie were somewhat of a combined target. The house was observed. They lived there two months, so someone knew where and how to get there (Dusty comes to mind).

Where did Levitt hang out for fun? Answer that. She wasn't holed up inside and only going to work. And there was a reason she was too busy for graduation dinner plans.

 

[SpringfieldMan341]

It is also possible that if Apco was true, perps were at the house and sending Sherrill on a mission to get Suzie.

 

[SpringfieldMan341]

I just don’t buy Sherill as the primary target.

If it was about Sherill then she could of easily raped and killed before the girls had even gotten home in the early hours of the morning.

This all went down when the girls got home so that would indicate it was not Sherilll who was the target imo

There is absolutely no sign that a sexual predator was in that home before the girls arrived home. Why wasn’t Sherill raped between the hours of 12am/3am if this was a sexually motivated attack on her?

Sexual predators don’t just wait around for hours on end. They get in and they get out in the quickest time possible before they are caught.

Why do you assume it was a sexual predator?

I never said that. I said that I think the perps were in the background of Levitt and Streeter. And possibly at the house.

 

[Missouri Mule]

It is also possible that if Apco was true, perps were at the house and sending Sherrill on a mission to get Suzie.

What is the consensus? Was the APCO sighting factual? Why would she first be described as driving a different car?

I know people feel strongly about that but I’m not convinced — yet.

Thoughts?