Mitigating - Aggravating Factors- General Information the penalty phase

[Leila]

Yes, I agree with you. However I think it took a horrific deed for Lee and George to step into line with Cindy, and probably because both were shellshocked at what Casey has done. Of course we don't actually know Cindy is controlling Lee, because he has been nowhere to be seen in the last year and he was pretty frank about ICA being a liar etc. George appears to be towing the line, but was in some weird sort of relationship with River, and gave his grand juror testimony without Cindy's "approval". So on the surface it looks like Cindy is in control, which is par for the course, but is she actually? I think everyone is just going around her instead.

Somebody please tell Cindy - it is over - give up trying to save face - or is this all that is keeping you glued together and without it are you going to break into a million pieces?

Also for me - to make Cindy domineering and over controlling makes ICA a victim and I will NEVER go there!

We're left with wondering if we'll ever know. The horrific deed was probably Casey killing Caylee, but is there some other horrific deed in the past we don't know about? The only reason I question this is some of the comments made during the jail house visits with her parents. Most glaring is when Casey said........"don't worry, I haven't said anything." Did that comment pertain to Caylee's death, or is there some other deep dark secret they're all covering up?

I've never thought of Casey as a victim........never will. People who are victims most often overcome whatever was done to them and become good, strong individuals and would never harm another person. There's no justification for what Casey did.

 

[logicalgirl]

We're left with wondering if we'll ever know. The horrific deed was probably Casey killing Caylee, but is there some other horrific deed in the past we don't know about? The only reason I question this is some of the comments made during the jail house visits with her parents. Most glaring is when Casey said........"don't worry, I haven't said anything." Did that comment pertain to Caylee's death, or is there some other deep dark secret they're all covering up?

I've never thought of Casey as a victim........never will. People who are victims most often overcome whatever was done to them and become good, strong individuals and would never harm another person. There's no justification for what Casey did.

We are so close Leila in our belief system as to be separated by a sliver. LOL.
I attribute the "don't worry I haven't said anything" was in answer to her parents telling her not to say anything to anybody except her lawyer. People are often filled with ideas that interrogators trick people into making confessions or slip up. I think George especially told her to "zip it" when her lawyer wasn't there. For me there is no deep dark secret lurking there except Casey's abuse of her family members re stealing, and lying about working, which I suspect her parents felt a lot of shame about.

The thing is, I just don't "see" Cindy as being as "strong" as some of the other posters do. I think she is the kind of mother who goes on a verbal rampage and family members kid glove her, so as not to get her riled up because they need her financial support, but basically ignore her and do what they please, especially Casey.

 

[sharpar]

I think the attorneys are going to be laughed out of court if they try she was abused and mistreated. KC lived at home with both parents who provided a car
and money on a continuing basis, babysitting when she " worked" nite events.
I mean really did she lack anything ? Her own room, phone, clothing, food, gasoline
a pool, pets . Jeez ......

 

[countzero]

I think the attorneys are going to be laughed out of court if they try she was abused and mistreated. KC lived at home with both parents who provided a car
and money on a continuing basis, babysitting when she " worked" nite events.
I mean really did she lack anything ? Her own room, phone, clothing, food, gasoline
a pool, pets . Jeez ......

Now inmate anthony would disagree with ya. She was mistreated by CA because CA wouldn't allow a boy to be in bed with her in her room. :angel: Yeppers, I did say that.

Other than my smart comment, I agree totally with ya. :dance:

 

[logicalgirl]

I think the attorneys are going to be laughed out of court if they try she was abused and mistreated. KC lived at home with both parents who provided a car
and money on a continuing basis, babysitting when she " worked" nite events.
I mean really did she lack anything ? Her own room, phone, clothing, food, gasoline
a pool, pets . Jeez ......

Thank you - you've said what I've been trying to say and much more!

 

[JSR]

Interesting read regarding penalty phase mitigation.

RULE 3.202. EXPERT TESTIMONY OFMENTAL MITIGATION DURING PENALTY PHASE OF CAPITAL TRIAL: NOTICE AND EXAMINATION BY STATE EXPERT

(a) Notice of Intent to Seek Death Penalty. The provisions of this rule apply only in those capital cases in which the state gives written notice of its intent to seek the death penalty within 45 days from the date of arraignment. Failure to give timely written notice under this subdivision does not preclude the state from seeking the death penalty.

(b) Notice of Intent to Present Expert Testimony Of Mental Mitigation. When in any capital case, in which the state has given notice of intent to seek the death penalty under subdivision (a) of this rule, it shall be the intention of the defendant to present, during the penalty phase of the trial, expert testimony of a mental health professional, who has tested, evaluated, or examined the defendant, in order to establish statutory or nonstatutory mental mitigating circumstances, the defendant shall give written notice of intent to present such testimony.

(c) Time for Filing Notice; Contents. The defendant shall give notice of intent to present expert testimony of mental mitigation not less than 20 days before trial. The notice shall contain a statement of particulars listing the statutory and nonstatutory mental mitigating circumstances the defendant expects to establish through expert testimony and the names and addresses of the mental health experts by whom the defendant expects to establish mental mitigation, insofar as is possible.

(d) Appointment of State Expert; Time of Examination.
After the filing of such notice and on the motion of the state indicating its desire to seek the death penalty, the court shall order that, within 48 hours after the defendant is convicted of capital murder, the defendant be examined by a mental health expert chosen by the state. Attorneys for the state and defendant may be present at the examination. The examination shall be limited to those mitigating circumstances the defendant expects to establish through expert testimony.

(e) Defendant’s Refusal to Cooperate. If the defendant refuses to be examined by or fully cooperate with the state’s mental health expert, the court may, in its discretion:

(1) order the defense to allow the state’s expert to review all mental health reports, tests, and evaluations by the defendant’s mental health expert; or

(2) prohibit defense mental health experts from testifying concerning mental health tests, evaluations, or examinations of the defendant.

 

[logicalgirl]

Well, considering what we now know almost two years later about CA, she would and is doing everything in her power, saving her dream world.

From reading SP's emails and her interview with LE, CA has covered for her daughter for a long, long time.

CA has chosen to commit perjury rather than acknowledge her part and inmate anthonys role in Caylee's murder. CA was not about to let inmate Anthony ruin her "perfect life" by turning in her daughter. She, along with GA were not about the glass windows of the A compound come crashing in, exploding about them. No, it was far easier in her mind to create a cover up story, ever changing, to keep up appearances. Besides, in her world she had mounds of experience "cleaning up after inmate Anthony".

Return to RP's interview and emails and all makes sense.

I'm very familiar with Brother Rick's emails and yes, I agree Cindy had mounds of experience cleaning up ICA's messes, but that makes her the proud clean-up crew not the tower of strength who is able to make ICA stop her behavior. IMO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

We're left with wondering if we'll ever know. The horrific deed was probably Casey killing Caylee, but is there some other horrific deed in the past we don't know about? The only reason I question this is some of the comments made during the jail house visits with her parents. Most glaring is when Casey said........"don't worry, I haven't said anything." Did that comment pertain to Caylee's death, or is there some other deep dark secret they're all covering up?

I've never thought of Casey as a victim........never will. People who are victims most often overcome whatever was done to them and become good, strong individuals and would never harm another person. There's no justification for what Casey did.

BBM

It's comments like the one bolded above that keep the little window of doubt open in my mind. Comments that were said, no explanation given for them that I'm aware of, so I can't simply erase the comments from existance. Another one was when Lee asked KC something like 'was it the same thing that happened last time?'. We don't know who Lee was referring to - happened to whom? Yet another comment was when CA exclaimed "I don't want to loose my husband." :waitasec: Why not?

Regarding CA being a controlling mother, the example that is foremost in my mind is when KC and Jesse were together with infant Caylee at the house. As told by Cindy to LE, she and GA returned home from their 'date' (GA had moved out and was living in another city), and found the three of them laying on the bed watching T.V. Cindy was irrate and told Jesse that SHE WOULD NOT TOLERATE THAT IN HER HOUSE. :waitasec:

Is Cindy's outburst/behavior rational? IMO Jesse was threatening Cindy's vision of how the future would be (remember Cindy said that if she could have she would make a family apt. section of the house so that she could keep her children with her always). So if Cindy expected KC to function by herself out in the real world without her help, I'm unclear as to how CA's comments and behavior were teaching KC that those were her expectations. Add to that a lame father who was trying to find easy 'fall from the sky' bank rolls and, it appears, was happy to watch while his wife handled things/life. Then he'd throw in a scheme to sabotage what they did have every now and then. KC took the bad examples from both her parents imo.

It's hard to teach a child that one must earn a living when you're unwilling to do that yourself. It's not fair to tell a child 'go take care of yourself and your child' when, at the same time, you're holding on to them by not letting/insisting they go. Jesse told the story regarding CA's behavior and how he was not 'allowed' to stick up for himself.

The above examples are not earth shattering circumstances but, if someone is constantly given mixed messages while growing up and never held accountable to any expectations given them, I can see where that might mess someone up (taking into account that they posibly have a condition that should have been addressed but may have been ignored or simply wished away).

 

[MissJames]

At some point during the trial I expect the SA to use prior sworn statements and depositins to impeach the testimony of G and C.Possibly even Lee. This will carry over to the sentencing phase,IMO. The Anthony's will have no credibility.

 

[logicalgirl]

I think I'm going to stay out here on my branch and not comment anymore on this because other posters see this whole situation as much more complicated than I ever have - lol.

To give you an example - Cindy's comment re she wouldn't tolerate that kind of behavior in her home.
So, she is dragging herself home from work - to make dinner, and finds ICA cuddling on the bed watching TV. In typically Cindy fashion she over reacts - as "lying on a bed with a man" is what got her in this situation in the first place. So Cindy is letting Jesse know there will be no hanky panky (resulting in another child) in her home. And Jesse, raised to respect his elders perhaps more so than most, says he wasn't able to express himself. In a similar situation, I may have not wanted to listen to the boyfriends "reasons" or excuses either.

Okay, that's it! Finis for me on this subject.

 

[JSR]

At some point during the trial I expect the SA to use prior sworn statements and depositins to impeach the testimony of G and C.Possibly even Lee. This will carry over to the sentencing phase,IMO. The Anthony's will have no credibility.

You can bet on it. I think their whole testimony will be a wash for the jury. Which is a shame. It seems in this case if your last name is Anthony not a single word that comes out of your mouth is truthful.

 

[countzero]

I'm very familiar with Brother Rick's emails and yes, I agree Cindy had mounds of experience cleaning up ICA's messes, but that makes her the proud clean-up crew not the tower of strength who is able to make ICA stop her behavior. IMO

bbm: Oh I agree with this -- that CA is by no means the tower of strength against ICA. What I meant in my statement was this: CA would and did invent/create a lie(s) to protect any member of the A clan rather than allow her "perfect world" to implode around her and have her most inner fears of self worth exposed to others.

Apparently she has been doing this since her marriage and continues to this date. She knows she is so far into the lies she has created that she believes them herself and believes others do as well.

I have no elusions that she told the mitigation specialist the truth to any hard questioning. She told only enough information to deflect blame on others for ICA's negative behaviors.

I would love to know if LA told the mitigation specialist about the incident where he asked ICA during one of his video visits "was this like before?"........... (By the way LA, What was it?.)

Then again, I have my doubts this mitigation specialist will ask any hard questions that paint any of the A clan in a bad light simply because she works for ALyon (no s).

 

[Woe.be.gone]

During the first hearing where we met JP (three hearings ago), JB said something to the affect of, 'if the case even goes to trial ~ this case tends to change suddenly so it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't.' These were not his exact words but he said something like this at the end of the hearing. I thought that I would run across people discussing this comment but I never have. Anybody else recall this comment?

Would he toss a comment like this out there just to confuse the public?

 

[KeysBreeze]

How many aggrevating factors does the prosecution have to prove for death penalty? I thought Judge Perry said one. Victim is under the age of 12.
Anyone?

 

[gngr~snap]

During the first hearing where we met JP (three hearings ago), JB said something to the affect of, 'if the case even goes to trial ~ this case tends to change suddenly so it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't.' These were not his exact words but he said something like this at the end of the hearing. I thought that I would run across people discussing this comment but I never have. Anybody else recall this comment?

Would he toss a comment like this out there just to confuse the public?

Baez also said something about speaking to KC's family (in Ohio)with regards to how she was raised or something... he mumbled but he seemed uncomfortable about having to say that in court. Did anyone else catch that?

 

[What'sThatClue]

During the first hearing where we met JP (three hearings ago), JB said something to the affect of, 'if the case even goes to trial ~ this case tends to change suddenly so it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't.' These were not his exact words but he said something like this at the end of the hearing. I thought that I would run across people discussing this comment but I never have. Anybody else recall this comment?

Would he toss a comment like this out there just to confuse the public?

Perhaps he's tossing it out there in the hope KC will plead?

 

[Curious Me]

"Suspicous timing by the State", says AL.

 

[Curious Me]

Money, the funding of Casey's defense, has something to do with timing of the State to go for the DP is part of the argument now.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Perhaps he's tossing it out there in the hope KC will plead?

"Suspicous timing by the State", says AL.

Would KC still be allowed to plea? I read where someone else asked this question but never saw an answer.

Regarding AL's comment about timing by the State, can you elaborate please? What is AL implying?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Baez also said something about speaking to KC's family (in Ohio)with regards to how she was raised or something... he mumbled but he seemed uncomfortable about having to say that in court. Did anyone else catch that?

Yes, he said that the mitigating Lawyer, who I think is Jean Barrett, J.D., has travelled to many states to talk to relatives, has spoken to teachers and other people who know Casey. JB stated that she may be the most important person in the case (they were discussing funding and Jean resides in MI).

This seems to be a hint that the Defense is prepared to argue from a psychological standpoint why Casey does not deserve to be punished by being put to death.