MN - 4 adults, 3 children found dead in Moorhead home, 18 Dec 2021

[ttcRider]

It is a silent killer but unless you are already asleep in bed you usually get a headache and feel nauseous. Odd they were found on the floor. Cooking does not set it off either, that would be a smoke detector. IMO Our CO detector is actually plugged in in the kitchen beside the door to the basement stairs.

 

[Shamrock1]

It is a silent killer but unless you are already asleep in bed you usually get a headache and feel nauseous. Odd they were found on the floor. Cooking does not set it off either, that would be a smoke detector. IMO Our CO detector is actually plugged in in the kitchen beside the door to the basement stairs.

Correct, but they may have had a combo ionization smoke/CO detector - not a stand-alone CO detector. Some people get frustrated when the smoke alarm sounds from a minor cooking incident, remove the batteries, and neglect to put them back in. (No idea what kind of detectors they had and how they were installed). JMO.

 

[wendybtn]

IIRC, carbon monoxide poisoning can be identified almost immediately. Other tox screens (drugs, heavy metals, etc.) may take longer.

There was a family in my old town whose story got on the news, because they nearly met a similar fate one autumn. The mother's "migraines" got worse, and the husband and kids had a "stomach virus" that they couldn't shake but seemed to go away at work or school, and it was the school nurse who suggested that they have their house tested for CO. A man showed up, and when he turned on the meter, he told everyone to get out of the house NOW, and don't even put on their shoes or grab their coats - just get the pets and the car keys and leave, and he would open the windows and search further. It turned out their furnace was defective and would probably have killed all of them in a matter of time.

When my ex-husband killed himself with carbon monoxide it was 2 months before his mother was contacted with the confirmed lab results, even though it was obvious what had happened. Death certificate was not released until then.

 

[al66pine]

When my ex-husband killed himself with carbon monoxide it was 2 months before his mother was contacted with the confirmed lab results, even though it was obvious what had happened. Death certificate was not released until then.

@wendybtn bbm Sorry about your ex-husband. Just jumping off your post, not addressing the very sad situation w your ex-husband.

When there are external, easily observable marks, e.g., cuts, gunshot wounds, the cause of death may seem obvious.
However in conducting a post mortem, before issuing DeathCert ruling, say, gunshot wound as CoD, pathologist or medical examiner must rule out/exclude other possible causes of death. Not uncommon for two month wait for a DeathCert.

Why a delay? Imagine:
Pathologist issues Death Cert, w gunshot wounds as CoD & homicide as MoD. During crim trial, in cross examining Pathologist, the def. atty asks which toxicology screens & tests the Path'gist ordered. If no (or limited) tox. screens, def atty could attack autopsy report's accuracy & Path'gist's credibility. Like this: my client admitted to shooting Victor Victim, a drug addict, but that was only a superficial wound. The CoD could have been the massive dose of heroin that Victor's drug dealer gave him just before the shooting. If the Path'gist had ordered appropriate tox screens, the actual cause of the death could have been revealed as heroin OD.

Or similar circumstances w gunshot wound, but a second autopsy revealed a massive dose of heroin in victim's system. Gives def team a chance to attack the state's autopsy report's accuracy.

Or similar circumstances w gunshot wound, but a second autopsy revealing the advanced stage of __ disease was the CoD gives def team a chance to argue that gunshot wound was not the CoD, did not kill Victor Victim. He died of a previously diagnosed disease, of natural causes.

So even in situations where CoD seems obvious, it's not uncommon that an autopsy report and Death Cert is not issued promptly. May take a few months or more. my2ct

 

[RaspberryMama]

Turns out it was indeed carbon monoxide poisoning.

Police: Carbon monoxide caused deaths of 7 people in Moorhead, Minn.

 

[Shamrock1]

“A carbon monoxide detector was found inside the home, but it had been taken off the wall and its batteries had been removed.”
Police: Carbon monoxide caused deaths of 7 people in Moorhead, Minn.

 

[RaspberryMama]

Oh goodness, so sad.

 

[al66pine]

Carbon Monoxide detector on site, but no batteries. A cryin' shame. No, a tragedy.
Asking a favor of everyone. Please read this and share w family/household members.
And if you don't have CO detectors, get some.

> 400 people in the U.S. die annually from unintentional carbon monoxide poisoning.
> 20,000 visit emergency room.
> 4,000 others are hospitalized.

Carbon monoxide is an odorless, colorless gas that often goes undetected, striking victims caught off guard or in their sleep.
Carbon Monoxide can injure or kill people in home w propane gas or natural gas furnace/ water heater/stove/oven, or other appliances. And even without propane or natural gas, Carbon Monoxide can injure or kill.
How? By burning fossil fuel in fireplaces, BBQ grills/smokers, portable generators; or in cars or trucks, boats, RVs, small engines, etc. When the gas builds up in enclosed spaces, people or animals who breathe it can be poisoned. Ventilation does not guarantee safety.

Preventing Carbon Monoxide Poisoning?
Install a battery-operated or battery backup carbon monoxide detector in the hallway near each separate sleeping area in your home. Check or replace the battery when you change the time on your clocks each spring and fall and replace the detector every five years.

Symptoms, Carbon Monoxide Poisoning?
Symptom severity varies depending on the level of carbon monoxide and duration of exposure. Mild symptoms sometimes are mistaken for flu.
Low to moderate carbon monoxide poisoning is characterized by:
Headache
Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Nausea
Dizziness
High-level carbon monoxide poisoning results in:
Mental confusion
Vomiting
Loss of muscular coordination
Loss of consciousness
Death
If you think you are experiencing any of the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning, go outside and get fresh air immediately. You could lose consciousness and die if you stay in the home.

When Carbon Monoxide Alarm Sounds?
The Consumer Product Safety Commission warns that you should never ignore a carbon monoxide alarm, and do not try to find the source of the gas. Instead, follow these steps:
Immediately move outside to fresh air.
Call emergency services, fire dept or 9-1-1.
Do a head count to check to account for everyone.
Do not reenter premises until emergency responders give permission.

Happy & safe holidays to all.

Sources:
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning (CO) | Disease or Condition - CDC
CDC Works 24/7 › dotw › carbonmonoxide
Carbon Monoxide - National Safety Council
NFPA - Carbon monoxide alarms

 

[branmuffin]

A needlessly sad way for a family to die. There needs to be more education to the deadly effects of CO poisoning. A smoke detector will not protect you from CO poisoning.

 

[Shamrock1]

All good advice, to which I’ll add: read the manual.

- CO alarm chirping 5 times at 3am? Check to see what 5 chirps mean. Don’t just unplug or remove batteries.

- Location matters. Read the manual.

- Alarms expire.

 

[Coppertop15]

I was going to say: placement is important. Is also why I don't like smoke/CO combo detectors

 

[Kaley Smith]

Many years ago my sister and her family were all quite sick one morning. Her husband figured out it could be carbon monoxide poisoning. Sure enough, that's what it was... a leak from their gas furnace. This was in the days before detectors were common. Though it was winter, a couple of windows were slightly open, and I think that's what might have saved them.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Did someone leave the car running in the garage? Probably accidental…but…?

Cause of Death of 7 People, Including 3 Children, Found Dead in Minnesota Home Confirmed

From the article:
The second source was a Kia van, also in the garage, which had issues with the battery. "The vehicle was found with a dead battery and a half-full gas tank," the police department explained. "There is no indication it was being worked on, such as tools, jumper cables, or a battery jump starter. Detectives had the car checked by a mechanic, the alternator was functioning correctly, but the battery needed to be charged."

 

[RaspberryMama]

Did someone leave the car running in the garage? Probably accidental…but…?

Cause of Death of 7 People, Including 3 Children, Found Dead in Minnesota Home Confirmed

From the article:
The second source was a Kia van, also in the garage, which had issues with the battery. "The vehicle was found with a dead battery and a half-full gas tank," the police department explained. "There is no indication it was being worked on, such as tools, jumper cables, or a battery jump starter. Detectives had the car checked by a mechanic, the alternator was functioning correctly, but the battery needed to be charged."

Oh dear. I'm still curious about why they were all on the floor, not in beds.

Why in the world would someone leave a vehicle running in a garage?! Were they getting ready to go somewhere and just dropped like flies where they stood? Seems unlikely.

 

[Shamrock1]

Oh dear. I'm still curious about why they were all on the floor, not in beds.

Why in the world would someone leave a vehicle running in a garage?! Were they getting ready to go somewhere and just dropped like flies where they stood? Seems unlikely.

Some of them may have been in their bedrooms, felt ill, and tried to make their way to an exit before succumbing. Do we know where each body was found?

Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t know the dangers of running a car or they think “just for a few minutes” or they assume a smoke detector will alert to CO.

“While detectives found a carbon monoxide detector in the laundry room, it wasn't on the wall and didn't have a battery. The only devices that were attached to the home were smoke detectors.”
Cause of Death of 7 People, Including 3 Children, Found Dead in Minnesota Home Confirmed

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Maybe the KIA had a keyless ignition. We used to have to turn the car off with a key and it became habit to turn the key and remove it. People now can walk away with their key fobs and leave their motors running. Today's quieter engines also increase the risk of leaving cars running without realizing it — a scenario that can be deadly if a car is inside a garage.

 

[cocomod]

So sad. To me, extra sad that they had a safeguard that had been disabled. Never remove the detectors from a home. Please, please replace the batteries. If it goes off without explanation, call the gas company or 911 to have someone come in and check for the issue.

 

[Barnabas]

Thanks for posting this info about leaving a car running in the garage. I have been starting mine in the garage when it’s really cold to let it warm up, but I will not be doing that again, at least not with the garage door closed. Prayers to their family.

 

[branmuffin]

So sad. To me, extra sad that they had a safeguard that had been disabled. Never remove the detectors from a home. Please, please replace the batteries. If it goes off without explanation, call the gas company or 911 to have someone come in and check for the issue.

In Ontario the Ontario Fire Marshall suggests changing the batteries in a smoke detector at the same time you change your clocks, so twice a year. It seems like such a small investment to save lives.

Carbon monoxide detectors use different batteries, a bit more expensive and they are supposed to last 3-5 years but I believe many people aren't proactive about replacing batteries and disable them when the chirping starts. It happens every year when Christmas trees start fires. People should replace incandescent lights on their Christmas trees with LED lights as well.

 

[EGirl]

Maybe the KIA had a keyless ignition. We used to have to turn the car off with a key and it became habit to turn the key and remove it. People now can walk away with their key fobs and leave their motors running. Today's quieter engines also increase the risk of leaving cars running without realizing it — a scenario that can be deadly if a car is inside a garage.

I have done this more than once.