GUILTY MN - Byron Smith charged with murder after shooting 2 teens

[LolaMoon08]

Amazing when looking at the pictures of the two teens, you would never assume they would be out robbing houses. It really does open your eyes to the fact that looks can be very deceiving!

This is a hard case. I understand the charges and that he really should not have executed the teens militia style. I am using the words militia style and execution based on the words of Mr. Smith himself and the feeling I get from the words he used. I think Mr. Smith could very well be suffering from some kind of PTSD or any kind of mental issues whether it's based on old age or his time overseas?

When all is said and done though, the teens had no right to be in Mr. Smith's home. He had every right to protect his property and his life from what he deemed as a threat.

Like I said earlier. This case will be up to a jury and I understand the charges. I just don't think the teens should be looked at as some innocent victims when they were not.

MOO

 

[belimom]

I just saw this on the news. What strikes me as odd is -- according to the homeowner -- there was a time lapse before she came down the stairs. Now I'm not a criminal but if I were breaking into a home and heard shots, I would first call out to my 'partner'. If I heard no response, I'd be outta there. I don't understand why she went down to the basement if shots had been fired. I'm not sure the man is telling the complete truth.

 

[MNlady]

I just saw this on the news. What strikes me as odd is -- according to the homeowner -- there was a time lapse before she came down the stairs. Now I'm not a criminal but if I were breaking into a home and heard shots, I would first call out to my 'partner'. If I heard no response, I'd be outta there. I don't understand why she went down to the basement if shots had been fired. I'm not sure the man is telling the complete truth.

Yes, Belimom, this is something I have a hard time with too. . . she surely must have heard the shots so would she go looking for where they came from?? Unless she thought her cousin had found a gun and had fired them??
Or was she high and not thinking clearly??
This whole thing is so odd. From what I'm reading locally, the young guy was really a good kid and an athlete and wasn't on drugs...she, on the other hand, had gone through treatment more than once and was struggling. It doesn't make sense to me why he would be burgarizing homes to find drugs or things to sell to buy drugs for HER. Just doesn't make sense. . . unless his friends didn't know him as well as they think they do. Just strange.:waitasec:

IMO, :moo:, I think Byron Smith might have retired because he was "losing it". . . dementia of some kind or mental illness or ?? He called his brother to come from the east coast (which his brother did do but got there 2 days later just on a "come now") because he "didn't know what to do." This highly intelligent man who has worked all over the world, "didn't know what to do"??? Strange indeed.

As an aside: This Byron Smith looks very familiar to me but I haven't a clue where I could have met him or seen him~!! And he lives about 55 miles south of me in another county. :banghead:

 

[mrsu]

yep, I think if he would have shot them each in the head, killing them instantly, he would more than likely not be facing 2nd degree murder charges

WOW. This saddens me. I understand the right to protect oneself, but why not just shoot them in a limb and then call the police?

 

[jjenny]

WOW. This saddens me. I understand the right to protect oneself, but why not just shoot them in a limb and then call the police?

It's not easy to shoot someone in the limb.
He was most likely within his rights to shoot them and kill them if they broke into his house, but he can't finish them off after he already wounded them.

 

[Sonya610]

IMO, :moo:, I think Byron Smith might have retired because he was "losing it". . . dementia of some kind or mental illness or ?? He called his brother to come from the east coast (which his brother did do but got there 2 days later just on a "come now") because he "didn't know what to do." This highly intelligent man who has worked all over the world, "didn't know what to do"??? Strange indeed.

I think he was losing it too. Having said that it was very noble of him to have come forward to the police.

Fact is he could have dumped those bodies off somewhere and no one would have ever linked it back to him. He doesn't seem like a threat to society, he isn't going out threatening people so I wish they would just drop the charges and leave him be (but I know that won't happen).

 

[Hatfield]

It's not easy to shoot someone in the limb.
He was most likely within his rights to shoot them and kill them if they broke into his house, but he can't finish them off after he already wounded them.

IMO
Riight (kind of) because he could keep firing multiple shots if they were still threatening him even after being wounded. In CC class, they teach to keep firing until the threat is totally gone. That judgement is an individual decision and what makes these cases very difficult and a jury will have to decide if he went too far.

First off, when eliminating a deadly threat, you can't try to aim for an arm or leg because you can miss and then get killed yourself. So, you typically will aim for the torso area like LE is trained as well. Like you said, if he killed them in the process of eliminating the threat, that normally is fine. However....

The problem with this case, is the gentlemen seems to have gone overboard once the threat was down and no longer threatening him. He needed to just make sure they were down and no weapons in their reach and then call LE.
He seemed to go way too far after the threat was gone.

But again, it is so tough to decide when a threat is gone because if they were still crawling around still
and moving around
and he had no phone in his reach
and he could not get to the stairs
and they were blocking him from reaching the stairs
and he was scared of them moving around
and he thought they were laughing at him
and he thought they may have a gun on them somewhere
and .....

This is why it is so hard for anyone to decide when a deadly threat is truly neutralized.

But in this case, his own words will probably come back to haunt him in a jury trial. He said he actually dragged them, so if he was able to drag them, then obviously he wasnt afraid of them anymore if he was touching them. With the girl, he said he got real close to her to shoot the final shot, so again, he probably was not scared enough to get right up to her, so where was the threat there if he was right next to her chin with the final shot.

A jury is likely going to have to decide on this one. I hope he gets a knowledgeble jury. It seems he deserves probably some sort of punishment, but I think manslaughter is the better charge too. He did not ask them in his house. Manslaughter seems like the perfect type of charge.

 

[Sonya610]

In CC class, they teach to keep firing until the threat is totally gone.

Exactly. The police NEVER attempt to shoot someone "in the leg", if they open fire they shoot to kill as rapidly as possible. Once the firing starts all negotiations are over!

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yes, Belimom, this is something I have a hard time with too. . . she surely must have heard the shots so would she go looking for where they came from?? Unless she thought her cousin had found a gun and had fired them??
Or was she high and not thinking clearly??
This whole thing is so odd. From what I'm reading locally, the young guy was really a good kid and an athlete and wasn't on drugs...she, on the other hand, had gone through treatment more than once and was struggling. It doesn't make sense to me why he would be burgarizing homes to find drugs or things to sell to buy drugs for HER. Just doesn't make sense. . . unless his friends didn't know him as well as they think they do. Just strange.:waitasec:

IMO, :moo:, I think Byron Smith might have retired because he was "losing it". . . dementia of some kind or mental illness or ?? He called his brother to come from the east coast (which his brother did do but got there 2 days later just on a "come now") because he "didn't know what to do." This highly intelligent man who has worked all over the world, "didn't know what to do"??? Strange indeed.

As an aside: This Byron Smith looks very familiar to me but I haven't a clue where I could have met him or seen him~!! And he lives about 55 miles south of me in another county. :banghead:

BBM Toxicology tests will be interesting. I think I could buy the boy in this case being a good kid who got in with the wrong girl IF it wasn't his cousin and was instead a girlfriend. Teens do some very crazy things when they feel they are in love. I've watched a lot of ID shows about teen lovers and the things they are capable of. Very scary what immaturity and love can produce. But, that does not apply here.

 

[mobeydick]

Yes, Belimom, this is something I have a hard time with too. . . she surely must have heard the shots so would she go looking for where they came from?? Unless she thought her cousin had found a gun and had fired them??
Or was she high and not thinking clearly??
This whole thing is so odd. From what I'm reading locally, the young guy was really a good kid and an athlete and wasn't on drugs...she, on the other hand, had gone through treatment more than once and was struggling. It doesn't make sense to me why he would be burgarizing homes to find drugs or things to sell to buy drugs for HER. Just doesn't make sense. . . unless his friends didn't know him as well as they think they do. Just strange.:waitasec:

IMO, :moo:, I think Byron Smith might have retired because he was "losing it". . . dementia of some kind or mental illness or ?? He called his brother to come from the east coast (which his brother did do but got there 2 days later just on a "come now") because he "didn't know what to do." This highly intelligent man who has worked all over the world, "didn't know what to do"??? Strange indeed.

As an aside: This Byron Smith looks very familiar to me but I haven't a clue where I could have met him or seen him~!! And he lives about 55 miles south of me in another county. :banghead:

Kissing cousins, at that age its all about the panocha.

 

[iluvmua]

BBM Toxicology tests will be interesting. I think I could buy the boy in this case being a good kid who got in with the wrong girl IF it wasn't his cousin and was instead a girlfriend. Teens do some very crazy things when they feel they are in love. I've watched a lot of ID shows about teen lovers and the things they are capable of. Very scary what immaturity and love can produce. But, that does not apply here.

All the media reports I have read say they are cousins. And one of his friends said he's not surprised he is out robbing houses

Both of the were known trouble makers and the girl was sent to an alternative school etc.

 

[iluvmua]

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/stor...ictim-if-teens-hadnt-broken-in-theyd-be-alive

And who's to say they did not still have that lead pipe on their person?

And what if the retired teacher was at home, they had a crow bar. they could have easily beaten him to death or found an object in his house to injure or kill him.

I Totally agree with the retired teacher: If teens had not broken in they would still be alive.

Their own stupidity cost them their lives.

 

[MNlady]

All the media reports I have read say they are cousins. And one of his friends said he's not surprised he is out robbing houses

Both of the were known trouble makers and the girl was sent to an alternative school etc.

BBM

This is not true, he was a junior at Pillager High School and she was a senior at Little Falls High School. Both were involved with school activities and had "lots" of friends. These alleged burglaries were not the norm for them...at least not for Brady. They did say that Kifer had been in drug treatment, then she would have gone to alternative school, but was currently in normal high school.

http://brainerddispatch.com/news/2012-11-25/little-falls-teenage-shooting-victims-were-cousins

Kifer was a senior at Little Falls High School. Superintendent Stephen Jones said she competed in gymnastics and swimming and helped manage the boys wrestling team. Brady had attended the same school up through the previous school year, at which point he transferred to nearby Pillager High School.

Jones said the Morrison County Sheriff's Department notified him of the identity of the victims. Little Falls students have a scheduled day off Monday, but Jones said grief counselors will be on hand anyway, and students and their parents will be invited to come to school and talk about what happened. He said more counselors will be in place on Tuesday when all students return; Pillager High School also planned to have counselors available.

Jones said Brady had wrestled for Little Falls before transferring schools. "These were both friends to a lot of folks, involved in lots of activities and working their way towards graduation like so many other kids, trying to put their focus on the future," Jones said.

IMO this is a terrible tragedy. Not only did these teenagers lose their lives but the shooter has also lost his life as he knew it, it's very doubtful that he won't go to prison for the 'overkill', and at his age it will probably be a life sentence however long it is.

 

[iluvmua]

BBM

This is not true, he was a junior at Pillager High School and she was a senior at Little Falls High School. Both were involved with school activities and had "lots" of friends. These alleged burglaries were not the norm for them...at least not for Brady. They did say that Kifer had been in drug treatment, then she would have gone to alternative school, but was currently in normal high school.

http://brainerddispatch.com/news/2012-11-25/little-falls-teenage-shooting-victims-were-cousins

Kifer was a senior at Little Falls High School. Superintendent Stephen Jones said she competed in gymnastics and swimming and helped manage the boys wrestling team. Brady had attended the same school up through the previous school year, at which point he transferred to nearby Pillager High School.

Jones said the Morrison County Sheriff's Department notified him of the identity of the victims. Little Falls students have a scheduled day off Monday, but Jones said grief counselors will be on hand anyway, and students and their parents will be invited to come to school and talk about what happened. He said more counselors will be in place on Tuesday when all students return; Pillager High School also planned to have counselors available.

Jones said Brady had wrestled for Little Falls before transferring schools. "These were both friends to a lot of folks, involved in lots of activities and working their way towards graduation like so many other kids, trying to put their focus on the future," Jones said.

Obviously they were not if they were doing drugs (the girl) and breaking into houses, stealing things.

IMO this is a terrible tragedy. Not only did these teenagers lose their lives but the shooter has also lost his life as he knew it, it's very doubtful that he won't go to prison for the 'overkill', and at his age it will probably be a life sentence however long it is.

Don't care how many friends these two had, what after school activities they were involved in etc. They played with fire and they got burned. don't break into people's houses if you don't want to end up dead.

(not directing this at you, Lady in MN).

 

[LolaMoon08]

BBM

This is not true, he was a junior at Pillager High School and she was a senior at Little Falls High School. Both were involved with school activities and had "lots" of friends. These alleged burglaries were not the norm for them...at least not for Brady. They did say that Kifer had been in drug treatment, then she would have gone to alternative school, but was currently in normal high school.

http://brainerddispatch.com/news/2012-11-25/little-falls-teenage-shooting-victims-were-cousins

Kifer was a senior at Little Falls High School. Superintendent Stephen Jones said she competed in gymnastics and swimming and helped manage the boys wrestling team. Brady had attended the same school up through the previous school year, at which point he transferred to nearby Pillager High School.

Jones said the Morrison County Sheriff's Department notified him of the identity of the victims. Little Falls students have a scheduled day off Monday, but Jones said grief counselors will be on hand anyway, and students and their parents will be invited to come to school and talk about what happened. He said more counselors will be in place on Tuesday when all students return; Pillager High School also planned to have counselors available.

Jones said Brady had wrestled for Little Falls before transferring schools. "These were both friends to a lot of folks, involved in lots of activities and working their way towards graduation like so many other kids, trying to put their focus on the future," Jones said.

IMO this is a terrible tragedy. Not only did these teenagers lose their lives but the shooter has also lost his life as he knew it, it's very doubtful that he won't go to prison for the 'overkill', and at his age it will probably be a life sentence however long it is.

It appears there are some conflicting stories about whether or not these two were trouble makers or not. When I was in High School, it was the seemingly good, popular kids who were doing the most drugs. Yes, even athletes. They lived what I like to call, double lives. Appearing to be perfect, but far from it.

Like another poster said, they chose to enter a home unlawfully (not just one either) and they died as a result of their actions. The homeowner, like you said, will most likely pay with his life too. There were bad decisions made from both sides, but you won't find me calling these teens victims in this.

MOO

 

[mobeydick]

It appears there are some conflicting stories about whether or not these two were trouble makers or not. When I was in High School, it was the seemingly good, popular kids who were doing the most drugs. Yes, even athletes. They lived what I like to call, double lives. Appearing to be perfect, but far from it.

Like another poster said, they chose to enter a home unlawfully (not just one either) and they died as a result of their actions. The homeowner, like you said, will most likely pay with his life too. There were bad decisions made from both sides, but you won't find me calling these teens victims in this.

MOO

Same here, I was straight as a arrow No drugs or alky but was accused of it and had a rep for it. I have no Idea how I got it I refused to be around druggies. I had never even seen pot until a year after I graduated. All the popular kids were into all that stuff. I was a stay at home recluse.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Same here, I was straight as a arrow No drugs or alky but was accused of it and had a rep for it. I have no Idea how I got it I refused to be around druggies. I had never even seen pot until a year after I graduated. All the popular kids were into all that stuff. I was a stay at home recluse.

Same here. I have never once been in trouble for anything (not even a traffic ticket), but I was labeled a trouble maker too. I have never touched an illegal substance and I didn't have my first drink until I turned 21. I was also quiet and kept to myself mostly. I had friends, but definitely not the "good, popular kids" that were the teachers pets. Yet, as I worked at my full time job throughout High School, I would see and hear all the "good, popular" kids getting high (coke was the big thing).

 

[wispyspirit]

I just saw this on the news. What strikes me as odd is -- according to the homeowner -- there was a time lapse before she came down the stairs. Now I'm not a criminal but if I were breaking into a home and heard shots, I would first call out to my 'partner'. If I heard no response, I'd be outta there. I don't understand why she went down to the basement if shots had been fired. I'm not sure the man is telling the complete truth.

I'm from Minnesota and have been following this case. KSTP news had an interview with a teen boy that knows Smith and the teens. According to this boy, Smith would allow teens to have band practice in his garage and there would be up to 30 teens hanging out at his house. If 64-year-old Byron Smith is this chummy with the local teenagers to allow them to hang out at his house with garage bands, one has to wonder if a break in actually occurred. He claims that there were 8 break ins but he only reported one. Got to wonder why he didn't report the other 7 break ins. Perhaps they never occurred. Perhaps he fences stolen goods. Perhaps he is chemically dependent and parties with teens. This would explain why 2 teens would go into his basement. 24 hours is a long time not to report a home invasion with fatalities. There could be a reason for this like trying to stage a break in and get rid of evidence of his own illegal activities. Also, given his former career of security engineer for American embassies overseas, it seems strange to me that he would have 8 break ins in his own home and only report one of them. My brother installed an outside camera system and motion detectors after his house was robbed. You would think Smith would do the same. The forensics will tell the real story.

 

[Sonya610]

There could be a reason for this like trying to stage a break in and get rid of evidence of his own illegal activities.

Well we know the teens WERE breaking into other houses based on the evidence in their car. He may have known them BUT I don't think he made up the burglarly story to cover up a pointless murder.

Seems too complicated, if they were visiting that means he moved their car down the street etc... Then he cleans up the "drug evidence" and calls the police to tell the ridiculous story. Much easier to just leave the car and dump the bodies in a body of water somewhere. No story needed.

 

[wispyspirit]

Well we know the teens WERE breaking into other houses based on the evidence in their car. He may have known them BUT I don't think he made up the burglarly story to cover up a pointless murder.

Seems too complicated, if they were visiting that means he moved their car down the street etc... Then he cleans up the "drug evidence" and calls the police to tell the ridiculous story. Much easier to just leave the car and dump the bodies in a body of water somewhere. No story needed.

He could have dumped the bodies, but he didn't, and you are right that his story is ridiculous.