MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #11 - Chauvin Trial Day 8

[JerseyGirl]

Schleicher asks Stiger to describe what he sees and the the position of Derek Chauvin.

S: Based on your experience and training, where would the majority of the defendants bodyweight...

Stiger: On his knees & pushing down from his knee area from his body.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379802827573374976?s=21

Schleicher: And so based on your review of all of the camera footage, the defendants body position with respect to that particular force did not change during the entire restraint period?
Stiger: Correct.


Photos attached to tweets

 

[JerseyGirl]

Testimony is resuming without Judge Cahill mentioning why they quit early yesterday, so perhaps we're reading into it too much?

https://twitter.com/louraguse/status/1379800665434828800?s=21

Stiger testifies that the knee restraint began at 20:19:19 and ended at 20:28:48 for a total of nine minutes and 29 seconds.

Stiger testifies that Chauvin's left knee was on Floyd's neck and right knee on his back for the entirety of the restraint. Feet spread on the ground. Majority of body weight pushing down from knees.

Stiger testifies that Chauvin's position didn't change, when reviewing this back camera view -- meaning Stiger is saying the knee was on the neck the whole time.

Then Stiger used the still photo from Kueng's body camera to counter Nelson's cross examination the last two days -- where others thought the knee looked on the shoulder blade

https://twitter.com/louraguse/status/1379804286691987471?s=21

Stiger testifies that Chauvin was using "pain compliance" techniques. This will end up being very important to the state's case as they need to prove intent to assault in order to prove Murder in the Second Degree. Note this, as I'm sure it will be scrutinized further.

 

[Niner]

Cathy Russon
@cathyrusson
·
4m
#DerekChauvinTrial - Use of force expert testifies the knee restraint by Chauvin began at 8:19:19 pm and ended 8:28:48., That's the 9 mins 29 secs prosecutors talked about in opening statements.

Stiger circles where each of Chauvin's knees are




Now talking about the amount of body weight on #GeorgeFloyd by pointing out Chauvin's feet.




- Now explaining holding #GeorgeFloyd's hand like this is "pain compliance". It causes pain to the individual.




link: https://twitter.com/cathyrusson

 

[Chelly]

G'morning Niner. Glad you are posting.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Pic shows Chauvin's hand gripping Floyd's fingers.

S: The principle of pain compliance...you would inflict pain for the purpose of having the subject obey your command.
Stiger: Yes.
S: What if there's no opportunity for compliance?
Stiger: Then at that point it's just pain.

Photo:
https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379804123990794241?s=21

Stiger: Another factor to consider when evaluating use of force is the number of officers versus the number of subjects.

 

[Shaddow]

So by Chauvin pulling on GF hand─he was inducing pain ( pain compliance ) after he was on the ground and two other officers on top of him . Especially painful, since the handcuffs were not placed on GF right.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Schleicher calls up the "use of force continuum" referenced during MPD Lt. Johnny Mercil's testimony on Tuesday.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379805223363969026?s=21

Stiger is going through this graphic explaining how the subject's behavior correlates with the "allowable police response." #DerekChauvinTrial

 

[turaj]

Why do some witnesses address the jury and other ignore them? Which one is correct or does it matter?

depends on many things..not the least of which is comfort on the stand. I think it does not probably matter in terms of the facts however I do think it adds something to inspire confidence in the testimony. I thought the Chief was excellent with that technique. Also depends on how they are coached by the State (in this case so far).

 

[JerseyGirl]

Schleicher asks Stiger what his opinion is to the "how much force was reasonable" for #DerekChauvin to use on George Floyd once he was handcuffed & prone.

Stiger: My opinion was that no force should have been used once he was in that position.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379806330203037698?s=21

 

[turaj]

Testimony is resuming without Judge Cahill mentioning why they quit early yesterday, so perhaps we're reading into it too much?

https://twitter.com/louraguse/status/1379800665434828800?s=21

Stiger testifies that the knee restraint began at 20:19:19 and ended at 20:28:48 for a total of nine minutes and 29 seconds.

Stiger testifies that Chauvin's left knee was on Floyd's neck and right knee on his back for the entirety of the restraint. Feet spread on the ground. Majority of body weight pushing down from knees.

Stiger testifies that Chauvin's position didn't change, when reviewing this back camera view -- meaning Stiger is saying the knee was on the neck the whole time.

Then Stiger used the still photo from Kueng's body camera to counter Nelson's cross examination the last two days -- where others thought the knee looked on the shoulder blade

https://twitter.com/louraguse/status/1379804286691987471?s=21

Stiger testifies that Chauvin was using "pain compliance" techniques. This will end up being very important to the state's case as they need to prove intent to assault in order to prove Murder in the Second Degree. Note this, as I'm sure it will be scrutinized further.

the early departure yesterday could have been as simple as some very nasty storms approaching the city. just a random guess...we will probably never really know. The judge seemed to have a number of meetings during lunch yesterday and maybe he has other pending matters that came up. I would think he has been freed up just for this case but that is not always the case.

 

[Factoria]

Why do some witnesses address the jury and other ignore them? Which one is correct or does it matter?

IMO, that's related to experience with testifying in a courtroom, witness' personality and level of confidence, nerves, among other things. If I were a juror, I'd appreciate witnesses speaking to me, and may even pay closer attention to what they were saying. But, that's JMO, and recognize that some may not agree. I'm quite hard of hearing, even with aids, and rely on lipreading a great deal, so that likely impacts my opinion on this subject. lol

 

[JerseyGirl]

Schleicher asks if what Stiger sees in this exhibit constitutes as deadly force.

Stiger says in his opinion, yes b/c Floyd was handcuffed, his position and the body weight could cause death.

"Positional asphyxia is a known risk in law enforcement."

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379806921859993600?s=21

 

[Shaddow]

Positional asphyxia has been well known by the DOJ, and all police for at least twenty years LAPD ─Sgt. Jody Stiger

 

[JerseyGirl]

Schleicher asks Stiger a series of questions about his experience in dealing with gathering crowds during an arrest, including "hostile crowds."

He then calls up this image and asked Stiger about what he saw & heard from bystanders.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379807481480773635?s=21

Stiger says there was name calling & foul language, but says he "did not perceive them as being a threat" because they were mostly recording or vocalizing concerns.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Stiger now testifying about dangers of positional asphyxia. He says it can happen even without body weight added -- but adding the body weight adds to the risk of death.

https://twitter.com/louraguse/status/1379806932064669698?s=21

 

[JerseyGirl]

Schleicher: Do you think that should have been sufficient training to prepare the defendant for this distraction?
(Re: the “hostile crowd”)

Stiger: Absolutely.

Steve Schleicher is done. Eric Nelson is now up.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379808420644143108?s=21

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Just wanted to weigh in on the discussion of whether Derek Chauvin's knee was on the neck of George Floyd or across his upper back/shoulder blade. I do think based on what I've seen that his knee was on GF's neck BUT - and this is JMO - I don't think the exact positioning, whether neck or upper back, matters much when it comes to the question of whether the weight of DC was fatally impeding the breathing of GF, leading to a hypoxic state and cardiac arrest.

Again, JMO but I think that even if - in the best case scenario for the defense - the weight of DC went across the shoulder blade area, I don't believe that a person in the prone position with their hands handcuffed behind the back, pinned onto a hard surface (concrete) by another person's body weight, can achieve adequate respiration for as long as GF was prone.

We learned from the testimony of Zimmerman that the protocol existed that people restrained with hands in the back should not be left in the prone position but immediately moved to sitting or side (recovery) position. That protocol didn't exist for no good reason - it existed because it was medically informed that most people will have trouble breathing even just lying still in that position for an extended period of time. If you add 170 (?) pounds of pressure from a police officer across the back of the thorax (even if it's not the neck), I don't see how a restrained person can get adequate oxygen.

JMO but I think the lack of damage to anatomical structures of the neck (if we eventually hear that is true) is immaterial. In other words, it's my opinion that closing off the windpipe through pressure is not the only way to restrict someone's breathing enough to kill them. Weight on the upper part of the back also prevents the lungs from expanding enough to get adequate oxygen to the heart and the rest of the body tissues.

All MOO

But one needs to keep in mind, that asphyxia is due to blood circulating oxygen to the brain in total. It's a misconception that asphyxia is due to trachea... and I do hope that the prosecution continues to hammer this point again and again and again as many still believe that aspyxia is only trachea... while certainly a contributor as to the positional and mechanical affects.

All MOO above







These are Exhibit 254 which they are covering in live feed. Souce: WaPo live feed screenshot

 

[JerseyGirl]

the early departure yesterday could have been as simple as some very nasty storms approaching the city. just a random guess...we will probably never really know. The judge seemed to have a number of meetings during lunch yesterday and maybe he has other pending matters that came up. I would think he has been freed up just for this case but that is not always the case.

Nelson starts by asking Stiger if he enjoyed the rain last night before launching into his cross examination.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379808864149905413?s=21

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I always view trials as if I were a member of the jury. In regards to where the knee was placed would not matter to me at all if I were a juror. I would be irritated that the defense is even trying to argue that his knee allegedly being on GF's shoulder vs neck mattered at all. The defendant provided zero assistance to GF and continued to keep his body weight on him after he knew he didn't have a pulse. He clearly went against his training and chose to not value the human life he was in charge of. If I were a juror, nothing the defense could offer would sway my opinion after having to sit through multiple videos of different angles of GF dying and feeling so helpless and angry that this man on trial could have not only prevented it but may quite possibly have done it on purpose. JMHO

The reason this matters is that he has THREE charges against him. This matters as to upping the charges within the continuum on those the charges, with the bottom one being manslaughter. MOO

 

[JerseyGirl]

Nelson's first round of questions center on Stiger's experience as a use of force expert in court, his training w/LAPD.

N: The policies of every police department are going to be different...
S: To some degree, yes.

On Tues. Lee Hutton told @CallanGrayNews he expects Nelson to target Stiger’s experience.

“Your expertise stops at the border of CA so what do you know about MPLS? I think the state navigates that by ignoring it to a certain extent.”

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379809984431677442?s=21