MN - George Floyd, 46, unarmed, killed in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 *arrests* #2

[MsBetsy]

He was in a regular SUV not a police vehicle.

Right. Initially they pointed a gun at him and then pulled him out of his own vehicle. If that's what you are referring to.

He was not resisting at that point and even thanked the officers when they sat him down. He had already told the officers he couldn't breathe before the the other patrol car arrived. It should have been treated as a medical emergency from the start. They could have monitored him until paramedics arrived instead of escalating the situation.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I don’t think DC stands a chance of living outside prison walls for a very, very long time. I’m not so sure about the other 3 officers.
jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

"I don't think we have ever heard the reason for the arrest."

No I don't think we have but the reason for his arrest should be on the police body cam of the arresting officer. If they were destroyed in the precinct fire we may never know and we will have to await the trials. We do know why they were called. Passing counterfeit money.

Yes, it should be on the body cams of the first officers. We don't know if the evidence was destroyed but we have seen parts of it so hopefully it hasn't. I'm more interested in seeing the footage of the second officers since it might point toward motive.

Yes we know why they were called but we still don't know if the officers confirmed the money was fake.

I described early in the thread how I once was refused an order by a cashier because they claimed the bill was counterfeit. They didn't call the police but I can't imagine (if they had) any officer not first confirming that it was fake and I certainly can't imagine them treating me the way they treated George Floyd. Even if I wasn't "acting right."

The 911 caller didn't seem to know whether the person that handed him the bill was male or female since they kept calling him a she. They also couldn't seem to tell whether he was white, back, Hispanic, Asian, or Native American.

It may have been obvious to him that the money was fake but I'm sure he didn't expect the officers to wind up killing him for it. The store owner said if he were there he would have handled it differently.

 

[mickey2942]

I would have liked to have known if any substances were found in Mr. Floyd's autopsy results. Has the analysis of the blood work been completed and released?

 

[JDough]

I'm more interested in seeing the footage of the second officers since it might point toward motive.

Yes we know why they were called but we still don't know if the officers confirmed the money was fake.

The 911 caller didn't seem to know whether the person that handed him the bill was male or female since they kept calling him a she. They also couldn't seem to tell whether he was white, back, Hispanic, Asian, or Native American

RSBM ^^^

You and I share some of the same thoughts, @MsBetsy.

The two things (bolded above), that have bothered me the most are the fact (that by all accounts), (1) the officers didn't take the time to verify they were confronting the correct suspect. If the reporting party could not confirm the sex or race of the supposed person using counterfeit bills, how did the officers know (for certain), they were approaching the correct man or woman. (2) We still do not know if the officers verified the bill(s) were indeed counterfeit. Why would officers approach a person in the first place if they did not see the bill(s) in person? Were they just going by what the clerk(s) said? If the clerks could not identify (with certainty) who passed the bills, why would they automatically assume it was George Floyd, a black man? IMO, this certainly appears to be the reason the public believes racial profiling exists.

I also have a problem with the fact recent reporting indicates (former) Officer Chauvin, and George Floyd knew one another. In fact, the had "bumped-heads" about Chauvin's unnecessary use of force at their place of employment. Why did Chauvin jump out of the police vehicle and immediately take control?

June 10, 2020
Did George Floyd and Derek Chauvin know each other? Co-worker says they did

[...] DP, a former co-worker of both men, told CBS News the two men often “bumped heads” while on shift together [...]

Floyd’s family has continued to speculate whether the incident may have stemmed from some prior personal grievance. [...]

Civil attorney BC, who is representing Floyd’s family, previously noted that Chauvin could still face first-degree murder charges if the investigation found the officer knew Floyd.

“That is going to be an interesting aspect to this case and hopefully upgrading these charges to first-degree murder because we believe he knew who George Floyd was". [...]

 

[SleuthBee]

He was in a black SUV- police had everyone get out and they cuffed GF. He did not resist, with hands cuffed behind his back they put him in the back of their police SUV, made a U turn, stopped their car got out of the car and each policeman opened a door and leaned in on GF in the backseat - the car shakes.
I can't find a clip of GF being pulled out of of the car and put prone on the ground. Next footage DC has knee on him killing him.

@Boxer , the clip of GF being pulled back out of the police cruiser by DC can be found on this video beginning at frame 3:39.

 

[SleuthBee]

I would have liked to have known if any substances were found in Mr. Floyd's autopsy results. Has the analysis of the blood work been completed and released?

@mickey2942 Attached is GF's complete autopsy report. The toxicology results appear on pg 2, and the lab report begins on pg 14.

 

[kaen]

George Floyd is dead at the hands of a cop who kept a knee to his neck for almost 9 minutes. At this point, does it really matter what GF allegedly did that caused the employee to call 911? The matter never went to trial (assuming there was even an arrest). GF was never convicted. But he was executed for an alleged $20 bill. Yes, we all saw it. This was an execution, not an accident. I don’t understand why this alleged counterfeit bill is even part of the discussion here, other than to blame the victim. The man is dead. It’s over. And as his brother said “Is $20 what a black man is worth?”
JMO

I am with you 100%. There is an evolving narrative about how Mr. Floyd conducted himself that is disturbing. When we get stuck on the bill or the drugs in his system, it is a way to justify the treatment --not necessarily his death, but the murderer's decision to place him face down and "get him under control" so to speak. Some argue that the beginning of this event was the prone position and kneeling on his neck. Others argue that the beginning of this event is the drug ingestion and bill paying (counterfeit has not been proven). I am in the camp that as soon as he was under their "control" they were responsible to keep him alive as he was unable to do that for himself. The events of Mr. Floyd's decisions are tangential at best.

I would also argue that (and I am not saying people here are saying the opposite) Mr. Floyd did the right things when he was told he was to be arrested. He surrendered any choices that he could make to be under their control If he had run or tried to flee and was killed many would saying he should not have run or resisted. His panic was real. He disclosed he had claustrophobia. He complained of being unable to breathe before he was placed face down. He should have had medical treatment. For whatever reason (and it doesn't really matter why), Mr. Floyd was saying the things that would make any officer or trained rescuer see indicators of needing to be checked out by medical professionals. He was not out of control in anyway, especially after he lost consciousness.

A black man is (and all people are) worth way more than $20. The statement by his brother represents a concern about a growing narrative about the importance of looking at Mr. Floyd's history, the alleged "crime" of that day, and his use of drugs as mitigators for the use force he was killed by. I find it confusing that anyone would say it is important to know about the bill or his drug use as an equal or important set of factors in the events of that day. Mr. Floyd's brother is calling it out but many are just stepping right around him as if his words are as useless as his brother's pleas for air-- the beginning of how many of these scenarios go--- by blaming the victim by not blaming the victim but talking about all the things he did wrong rather than the fact that he was defenseless when he was executed in front of a crowd. .

 

[SleuthBee]

It’s discussed because people want to think “oh, he had a record” or “he did drugs” or whatever bad thing, because then it justifies his death in their mind. In addition, they think “I don’t have a record and I don’t do drugs so a cop would never hurt me” so they don’t have to be afraid of police brutality.

RBBM
There it is! IMOO ... No sane American can justify the sadistic killing of GF. So the next best thing is self-delusion. Otherwise, there will be a call to action because a civilized society does not exist if it tolerates police brutality.

Strictly my personal opinion ... When GF's criminal history and drug use validates his death, then its time to put one's sense of human decency in check.

 

[Curiosity1234]

@Boxer , The entire video of GF being pulled out of his car then back out of the police cruiser by DC can be found on this video beginning at frame 3:39.

Thank you for posting that video. It shows in detail much more than what most of us have seen on MSM. You can not only hear GF saying "I can't breathe" but the response was "Get up in the car" which he was incapable of doing. You can also hear GF twice call out "Mama".

 

[MsBetsy]

Thank you for posting that video. It shows in detail much more than what most of us have seen on MSM. You can not only hear GF saying "I can't breathe" but the response was "Get up in the car" which he was incapable of doing. You can also hear GF twice call out "Mama".

Yes, by that time he could barely get the words out. His last words were out of desperation and terror that he was about to die, imo. After he said "mama," then "please," he no longer had a pulse, but they continued to put pressure on his back and kneel on his neck for nearly three minutes after he was dead.

They never once showed any concern. No one tried to save him until he was already in the ambulance after it was too late. Paramedics were only told that he had "trauma to his mouth," so they weren't given the correct information and weren't fully prepared at first.

 

[SleuthBee]

Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin could receive more than $1 million in pension benefits during his retirement years even if he is convicted of killing George Floyd.

Chauvin has been the subject of national fury since last month, when footage emerged of him kneeling on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes as Floyd begged him to stop. He was quickly fired from the department where he had worked since 2001, and amid national protests, was eventually charged with second-degree murder. Three other officers involved with the incident were also fired and face felony charges.
But Chauvin still stands to benefit from a pension partially funded by taxpayers. While a number of state laws allow for the forfeiture of pensions for those employees convicted of felony crimes related to their work, this is not the case in Minnesota.


Derek Chauvin: Officer charged with killing George Floyd still eligible for pension worth more than $1 million - CNN

"Retirement plan officials said that employees terminated voluntarily or for cause are eligible for future benefits unless they choose to forfeit their future benefit and receive a refund of all their contributions made during their employment." source​

Mercury News
CNN Investigates
CBS News

The above articles are a bit misleading as they fail to address that the $1 million pension includes health, prescription, etc.

New York Post
"Chauvin, 44, was booted from the force and charged with second-degree murder, but could still cash in because Minnesota, unlike some other states, does not allow for the forfeiture of pensions for employees convicted of felony crimes related to their work, CNN reported.

The Minnesota Public Employees Retirement Association confirmed to the network that Chauvin, who had worked for the department since 2001, would remain eligible to file for his partially taxpayer-funded pension as early as age 50, though it would not specify the specific amount he would receive, the network reported."

NCSL
Early retirement w/reduced benefits at age 50 with 10 years of service.

The bottom line: His divorce may claim half. And DC can cash out now, or draw when he turns 50. In prison, the rest of the benefit package may be of little value.
.

 

[Curiosity1234]

Yes, by that time he could barely get the words out. His last words were out of desperation and terror that he was about to die, imo. After he said "mama," then "please," he no longer had a pulse, but they continued to put pressure on his back and kneel on his neck for nearly three minutes after he was dead.

They never once showed any concern. No one tried to save him until he was already in the ambulance after it was too late. Paramedics were only told that he had "trauma to his mouth," so they weren't given the correct information and weren't fully prepared at first.

Continued to put pressure on his back and kneel on his neck for "THREE MINUTES AFTER HE WAS DEAD" that's horrid and those who did it are horrible human beings. I am still in shock at seeing Derek Chauvin's nonchalant expression as he was doing this as if he himself believes his behavior is routinely acceptable.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, it should be on the body cams of the first officers. We don't know if the evidence was destroyed but we have seen parts of it so hopefully it hasn't. I'm more interested in seeing the footage of the second officers since it might point toward motive.

Yes we know why they were called but we still don't know if the officers confirmed the money was fake.

I described early in the thread how I once was refused an order by a cashier because they claimed the bill was counterfeit. They didn't call the police but I can't imagine (if they had) any officer not first confirming that it was fake and I certainly can't imagine them treating me the way they treated George Floyd. Even if I wasn't "acting right."

The 911 caller didn't seem to know whether the person that handed him the bill was male or female since they kept calling him a she. They also couldn't seem to tell whether he was white, back, Hispanic, Asian, or Native American.

It may have been obvious to him that the money was fake but I'm sure he didn't expect the officers to wind up killing him for it. The store owner said if he were there he would have handled it differently.

If it's true what the store clerk said, he was given the chance to return the merchandise but refused. I wonder what the store owner would have done differently? I notice his store did not seem to be damaged and he had BLM signs and a memorial up outside the store in a recent photo.

 

[tresir2012]

I am with you 100%. There is an evolving narrative about how Mr. Floyd conducted himself that is disturbing. When we get stuck on the bill or the drugs in his system, it is a way to justify the treatment --not necessarily his death, but the murderer's decision to place him face down and "get him under control" so to speak. Some argue that the beginning of this event was the prone position and kneeling on his neck. Others argue that the beginning of this event is the drug ingestion and bill paying (counterfeit has not been proven). I am in the camp that as soon as he was under their "control" they were responsible to keep him alive as he was unable to do that for himself. The events of Mr. Floyd's decisions are tangential at best.

I would also argue that (and I am not saying people here are saying the opposite) Mr. Floyd did the right things when he was told he was to be arrested. He surrendered any choices that he could make to be under their control If he had run or tried to flee and was killed many would saying he should not have run or resisted. His panic was real. He disclosed he had claustrophobia. He complained of being unable to breathe before he was placed face down. He should have had medical treatment. For whatever reason (and it doesn't really matter why), Mr. Floyd was saying the things that would make any officer or trained rescuer see indicators of needing to be checked out by medical professionals. He was not out of control in anyway, especially after he lost consciousness.

A black man is (and all people are) worth way more than $20. The statement by his brother represents a concern about a growing narrative about the importance of looking at Mr. Floyd's history, the alleged "crime" of that day, and his use of drugs as mitigators for the use force he was killed by. I find it confusing that anyone would say it is important to know about the bill or his drug use as an equal or important set of factors in the events of that day. Mr. Floyd's brother is calling it out but many are just stepping right around him as if his words are as useless as his brother's pleas for air-- the beginning of how many of these scenarios go--- by blaming the victim by not blaming the victim but talking about all the things he did wrong rather than the fact that he was defenseless when he was executed in front of a crowd. .

The reason all the evidence is important is because there are 4 policemen that have been charged, so all the events leading up to his death will be examined along with all the actions of the officers to determine the facts of the case. The cell phone info and the body cams will be examined, and even the conversations of the officers before, during and. afterwards. The working relationships between the cops and the off duty jobs will be examined. Nothing will or should be left out.

 

[SleuthBee]

His panic was real.

His last words were out of desperation and terror that he was about to die, imo.

I agree and believe GF was frightened and terrified, and not resisting arrest.

While reviewing the videos, I noticed a change in a stream of water underneath the police cruiser. Then realized it had to be coming from GF because the AC compressor is toward the front. I attached pics captured from the video.

In cases of extreme fear, terror and strangulation, incontinent urination is common. GF's autopsy shows his residual urine volume was 80 mls. And a man GF's size might have a bladder that can hold >1500 ml. In other words, his bladder was pretty much empty.

Links:
Strangulation
Choke Hold
Anxiety
Terror

 

[tresir2012]

RSBM ^^^

You and I share some of the same thoughts, @MsBetsy.

The two things (bolded above), that have bothered me the most are the fact (that by all accounts), (1) the officers didn't take the time to verify they were confronting the correct suspect. If the reporting party could not confirm the sex or race of the supposed person using counterfeit bills, how did the officers know (for certain), they were approaching the correct man or woman. (2) We still do not know if the officers verified the bill(s) were indeed counterfeit. Why would officers approach a person in the first place if they did not see the bill(s) in person? Were they just going by what the clerk(s) said? If the clerks could not identify (with certainty) who passed the bills, why would they automatically assume it was George Floyd, a black man? IMO, this certainly appears to be the reason the public believes racial profiling exists.

I also have a problem with the fact recent reporting indicates (former) Officer Chauvin, and George Floyd knew one another. In fact, the had "bumped-heads" about Chauvin's unnecessary use of force at their place of employment. Why did Chauvin jump out of the police vehicle and immediately take control?

June 10, 2020
Did George Floyd and Derek Chauvin know each other? Co-worker says they did

[...] DP, a former co-worker of both men, told CBS News the two men often “bumped heads” while on shift together [...]

Floyd’s family has continued to speculate whether the incident may have stemmed from some prior personal grievance. [...]

Civil attorney BC, who is representing Floyd’s family, previously noted that Chauvin could still face first-degree murder charges if the investigation found the officer knew Floyd.

“That is going to be an interesting aspect to this case and hopefully upgrading these charges to first-degree murder because we believe he knew who George Floyd was". [...]

The officers talked to all three people in the car based on the video. The other two people got out and the officers let them walk away. The witness who said GF and DC knew each other has retracted that statement.

 

[tresir2012]

I agree and believe GF was frightened and terrified, and not resisting arrest.

While reviewing the videos, I noticed a change in a stream of water underneath the police cruiser. Then realized it had to be coming from GF because the AC compressor is toward the front. I attached pics captured from the video.

In cases of extreme fear, terror and strangulation, incontinent urination is common. GF's autopsy shows his residual urine volume was 80 mls. And a man GF's size might have a bladder that can hold >1500 ml. In other words, his bladder was pretty much empty.

Links:
Strangulation
Choke Hold
Anxiety
Terror

Amazing you spotted that.

 

[mickey2942]

I don’t think DC stands a chance of living outside prison walls for a very, very long time. I’m not so sure about the other 3 officers.
jmo

I don't think DC stands a chance of living INSIDE prison walls for a long time.

 

[mickey2942]

Continued to put pressure on his back and kneel on his neck for "THREE MINUTES AFTER HE WAS DEAD" that's horrid and those who did it are horrible human beings. I am still in shock at seeing Derek Chauvin's nonchalant expression as he was doing this as if he himself believes his behavior is routinely acceptable.

That is the crux of this situation. Because Chauvin had been able to get away with significant other issues, he had developed a narcissism complex, that he could get away with everything.

I believe that police officers also have a tendency to depersonalize people who have served time in prison. As though serving time in prison makes a person "less than".

Mr. Floyd had served time in prison before, and it appears that he had been moving forward from this, and was very active in religious activities, and mentoring other young black men to help them from making the same mistakes.

I don't know what happened that created the issue to call the police, but it shouldn't have ended the way it did.