MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #4 - Chauvin Trial Day 1

[Rocky1]

That's what I don't understand. The prosecution said it was to ensure a murder conviction, but don't they have to show that other's lives were in eminent danger?

Yes, for example if someone shot a gun in a crowd without any intentions of killing anyone, but did, That's 3rd degree murder.
Another example given is if someone shot Heroin into someones arm, and they died, that would be third degree murder.
The prosecution can charge Chauvin with whatever they want, but they have an obligation to drop the charges if they feel they don't have enough evidence to convict.
The judge on the other hand, is supposed to drop the charges if he/she feels there's not enough evidence to take it to trial. That's done during a Pre-Trial Hearing.
I may be missing something, but, I don't see either. I do see bias with the judge.
That's one reason I don't see Chauvin getting a fair trial, but that's MOO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The big difference between a bench trial and a jury trial however is that judges can set emotion aside and rule strictly according to law, but with a jury there is the emotional aspect that factors in, regardless of how much we'd like to think it should not.

JMO

Yep. That's why I mentioned it.

When this is all over I will like to see if any of the jury talks to the press about how they came to their decision and see if it follows the jury instructions given to them by the judge.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Because of the State Supreme court ruling.

Minnesota Supreme Court puts 3rd-degree murder back on the table for Derek Chauvin

The Minnesota Supreme Court issued a decision Wednesday that could revive a charge of third-degree murder against Derek Chauvin as attorneys in his trial seated the fifth juror who will hear testimony about the killing of George Floyd.

Supreme Court puts 3rd-degree murder back on the table for Chauvin

It says the court of appeals issued a ruling upholding a 3rd degree murder conviction in an unrelated case that interpreted the statutes language differently from Cahill.

It doesn't say how the language differs, but I'll just assume it doesn't include putting others lives in eminent danger.

 

[Rocky1]

Because of the State Supreme court ruling.

Minnesota Supreme Court puts 3rd-degree murder back on the table for Derek Chauvin

The Minnesota Supreme Court issued a decision Wednesday that could revive a charge of third-degree murder against Derek Chauvin as attorneys in his trial seated the fifth juror who will hear testimony about the killing of George Floyd.

Supreme Court puts 3rd-degree murder back on the table for Chauvin

Thanks. I wasn't aware that the Supreme Court ruled on this.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

And apparently all they have to prove is that the neck kneeling was a "substantial causal factor." There's no way to know if Floyd could have been saved if he had received immediate medical attention (after he first said he couldn't breathe,) or if he would have died anyway had he never been restrained.

He started saying that he couldn’t breathe before he was ever on the ground with a knee on his neck. Was he not able to breathe at that point? Would he still be alive had he not taken the drugs? I think all the defense needs to do is create reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror.

 

[Rocky1]

I also think that if the testimony from his 2019 arrest shows that Chauvin knew his history, and he acted the same then, that may have some weight on Lady Justice.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It says the court of appeals issued a ruling upholding a 3rd degree murder conviction in an unrelated case that interpreted the statutes language differently from Cahill.

It doesn't say how the language differs, but I'll just assume it doesn't include putting others lives in eminent danger.

This was the original problem

Cahill dismissed the third-degree charge at an early hearing based on Minnesota Supreme Court precedent requiring the “reckless” conduct involved in a third-degree murder charge to be dangerous to more than one person.

The Minnesota Court of Appeals penned a decision challenging that standard early this year in another case involving a Minneapolis police officer in State v. Noor.

That decision spawned a flurry of activity in the Chauvin case. Assistant Attorney General Matthew Frank, who is leading the prosecution, requested permission to add the third-degree charge quickly after the Noor decision. Cahill denied it, finding that since the Noor decision would soon be appealed to the Supreme Court and went against well-established precedent, he was not yet bound by it.

Minnesota Supreme Court Denies Chauvin Appeal

 

[Deleted member 39678]

He started saying that he couldn’t breathe before he was ever on the ground with a knee on his neck. Was he not able to breathe at that point? Would he still be alive had he not taken the drugs? I think all the defense needs to do is create reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror.

In court the prosecutor told the jury Floyd said 27 times that he could not breathe. That sure seems odd to me. How can one get that out when you can't breathe?

'I can't breathe' video played during Derek Chauvin trial for George Floyd's death

 

[Factoria]

Imo, i feel there is so much more than the video that has been shown over n over. I feel like the prosecution is highly focused on the video just like the media was/still is. From what i heard today from the witnesses didn't sway me in one way or another. I mean the 2nd witness was not strong for the prosecution at all, imo. I honestly don't know what she brings to the table. The 3rd witness, was he the "bro" guy in the video? I definitely do not consider anything he said as anything more than he enjoys martial arts. I want to hear from the experts. I want to know about the autopsy results. I want to hear about the discrepancies of all autopsy reports, who performed them, political affiliations etc.

I don't disagree at all, actually... we've barely scratched the surface of the evidence that will need to be taken into consideration when rendering a verdict, and I've already learned things I didn't know before today. I was merely pointing out that watching a man die in front of you is difficult, regardless of how or why, and having to watch it over and over and over and over, from dozens of different potential viewpoints, will surely have a lasting impact.

 

[Factoria]

In court the prosecutor told the jury Floyd said 27 times that he could not breathe. That sure seems odd to me. How can one get that out when you can't breathe?

'I can't breathe' video played during Derek Chauvin trial for George Floyd's death

Have you ever experienced or witnessed someone else having a severe asthma attack? I can assure you that 'I can't breathe' is often said in the moments before all ability to inhale and exhale sufficiently ceases to exist.

27 times he said it? $27M awarded in the civil suit? Interesting.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Have you ever experienced or witnessed someone else having a severe asthma attack? I can assure you that 'I can't breathe' is often said in the moments before all ability to inhale and exhale sufficiently ceases to exist.

27 times he said it? $27M awarded in the civil suit? Interesting.

That's what the prosecutor told the jury.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't disagree at all, actually... we've barely scratched the surface of the evidence that will need to be taken into consideration when rendering a verdict, and I've already learned things I didn't know before today. I was merely pointing out that watching a man die in front of you is difficult, regardless of how or why, and having to watch it over and over and over and over, from dozens of different potential viewpoints, will surely have a lasting impact.

Yeah, I would imagine seeing that video would have the same effect on the jury as it did for the millions of other people who saw it. When I first watched it I hadn't read anything about what happened. I could not imagine what any person could have done to deserve that kind of treatment. I thought he must have shot at a bunch of people or pulled a gun on the officers, but all he did to get arrested was pass a fake twenty. I'm still waiting to hear if police ever examined the bill before they arrested him.

 

[Wild Rose]

Whenever I was on an ambulance call, every officer I knew responded appropriately to the words, "I can't breathe". They administered the oxygen they carry in the trunk of their police car. Without exception. We averaged 3 calls a day and I never observed an officer not respond to "I can't breathe". "I can't breathe" is a common universal statement that requires immediate assistance. That is why you are trained and required to respond.

 

[MsBetsy]

Whenever I was on an ambulance call, every officer I knew responded appropriately to the words, "I can't breathe". They administered the oxygen they carry in the trunk of their police car. Without exception. We averaged 3 calls a day and I never observed an officer not respond to "I can't breathe". "I can't breathe" is a common universal statement that requires immediate assistance. That is why you are trained and required to respond.

Yes, it's considered a potential medical emergency, yet none of the officers seemed to show any concern. In fact they mocked him by saying "if you can talk, you can breathe."

 

[Gibbo214]

Yeah, I would imagine seeing that video would have the same effect on the jury as it did for the millions of other people who saw it. When I first watched it I hadn't read anything about what happened. I could not imagine what any person could have done to deserve that kind of treatment. I thought he must have shot at a bunch of people or pulled a gun on the officers, but all he did to get arrested was pass a fake twenty. I'm still waiting to hear if police ever examined the bill before they arrested him.

But to my knowledge the fake twenty has not been spoken about since nor has anyone claimed to have seen it.

 

[margarita25]

Wow just wow, just finished watching the whole opening statement from Prosecuting Attorney Blackwell - I had missed it earlier. It is definitely worth a watch imo if you haven’t seen it. I found it to be quite informative. I really don’t think they’ve left a leg for the defense to stand on, moo. Watch for yourselves.

Starts at 16:00

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

But to my knowledge the fake twenty has not been spoken about since nor has anyone claimed to have seen it.

The fake 20 is shown on one of the officers body cams from the day of the incident. After GF is taken away in the ambulance, an officer enters the store and the manager of the store tells the officer about the counterfeit bill and the office takes it and places it in an envelope. The video was posted on the last page of this thread.

 

[margarita25]

The fake 20 is shown on one of the officers body cams from the day of the incident. After GF is taken away in the ambulance, an officer enters the store and the manager of the store tells the officer about the counterfeit bill and the office takes it and places it in an envelope. The video was posted on the last page of this thread.

It’s also shown in the opening statement video I just posted above. Again, if everyone wants to get their notes/facts in order going forward, I recommend watching the opening statement in its entirety here (starts at 16:00). It clearly outlines what will be addressed and covered in the trial, and answers some of the questions/thoughts brought up on the board today. It also clarifies some misinformation I’ve seen posted in other places, such as in YouTube comments.

eta:
I won’t be able to hang all day watching the trial and not work, so I’m glad I got to see the opening statement because it basically outlines in advance the major points and approaches, as any good opening statement does.

 

[SouthAussie]

“A person can die within minutes of compressive force on the neck,” forensic examiner Melinek says. “It generally only takes 6 pounds of pressure to compress the jugular veins of the head, and 11 pounds of pressure to compress the carotid arteries that bring oxygen to the brain.”

NEWSMD Special Report: The risks of police restraint | Duluth News Tribune

 

[Lilibet]

In court the prosecutor told the jury Floyd said 27 times that he could not breathe. That sure seems odd to me. How can one get that out when you can't breathe?

See posts below by @Factoria and @Wild Rose.

I can assure you that 'I can't breathe' is often said in the moments before all ability to inhale and exhale sufficiently ceases to exist.

I never observed an officer not respond to "I can't breathe". "I can't breathe" is a common universal statement that requires immediate assistance.

In contrast to protocol, no immediate assistance was given to Mr Floyd.

Yes, it's considered a potential medical emergency, yet none of the officers seemed to show any concern. In fact they mocked him by saying "if you can talk, you can breathe."

BBM

Exactly. Someone saying they can’t breathe means they can’t get enough air into their lungs and need help, not second guessing and/or the mockery that was visited on Mr Floyd by these trained police officers who are supposed to “protect with courage and serve with compassion.” And that means protect and serve even someone accused of a crime who has a criminal record. Even if they believed Mr Floyd was malingering or “crying wolf” or had swallowed drugs because he may have done it another time, it was unacceptable and inhumane to mock him and refuse to render appropriate aid once he was subdued correctly.

And on top of that, they kept him restrained on his stomach instead of his side and Chauvin pressed his knee into the side of his neck even past the point of unconsciousness, ignoring repeated requests to take his pulse and turn him on his side. We all saw it with our own eyes. I know that what I saw was absolute depraved indifference for the life of a fellow human. Mr Floyd was treated with less respect and concern than a dog! The defense is obliged to put on a vigorous defense of Chauvin and I will listen carefully. But I will never let the defense team gaslight me and try to persuade me to believe that I did not see Chauvin lean on Mr Floyd’s neck until he was beyond help...for no legitimate reason.
JMO