MN - George Floyd, 46, unarmed, killed in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 *arrests* #2

[Lilibet]

GF’s criminal past or chemical use doesn’t justify his death or make him less of a victim. I don’t think anyone in here has said such a thing.

Nobody needs to say it out loud for it to be implied. Is continuing to discuss Mr Floyd’s past and the drugs in his system treating him as a victim? We don’t do this to others victims. It might be mentioned once in passing but not repeatedly.

 

[Steft50]

I'm so far behind I may never catch up.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this about the Chauvin's Windemere house but it's entirely possible it's used as a vacation rental property when they aren't living in or visiting there. Lots of high cost houses in the area are used as vacation rentals given how close it is to all things Orlando, Disney, Universal, to help with the high price.

My daughter works nearby and mentioned to me she wished this information wasn't public knowledge. In an effort to harass Chauvin her restaurant as well as others in the area are being over whelmed with prank orders for the property.

 

[tresir2012]

If a doctor or nurse assisting in a surgery thinks a surgeon is drunk and they don’t stop the surgery and the patient dies as a result of the surgeon’s malpractice and criminal actions would they not be held partly responsible and disciplined accordingly? Would they get a pass because they were just following orders?

I think they might, with good lawyers. Is there evidence Chauvin was drunk? In your analogy, the surgeon was at fault, others were assisting. They would not be at fault IMO.
Nothing went wrong till Chauvin turned up and took charge. They were rookies he was their Supervisor.

 

[SleuthBee]

DC may not stand a chance of surviving inside prison walls either. Prison officials may have to keep him in solitary confinement or isolation to protect him.

I lost track of the number of times DC was transferred. To my knowledge, an inmate

I agree. Mr. Floyd should not be judged at all by his previous actions, what he did, or didn't do.

This is all about the failure of the Minneapolis PD. I seriously believe that Chauvin's supervisor should have also been terminated. Maybe if supervisors are held accountable for what people who are under them do, they would be a lot more likely to pursue corrective measures before something like this happened.

I am interested if Chauvin had any bloodwork done? Was he taking any sort of drugs? Steroids?

There you go, lets have a look at his lab results, LOL!

 

[Sillybilly]

It is in MSM so I thought we could discuss his criminal record, Like we are discussing Chauvin's wife (also a victim) divorce settlement, I thought. Are you saying we cannot discuss it? I would rather know for sure, then I won't bother to post links when members ask about it. The MSM I posted says he was getting his life back together. However, the autopsy reveals he had meth and fentanyl in his body. He had also tested positive for Coronavirus so was possibly not a well man at all that day when he was pinned to the ground.

No, not saying his past can't be even mentioned. It is part of GF’s life, but it begs the question of how that criminal past relates to his killing at the hands of these officers. This is not directed at you Tresir. Just that sometimes it seems to get hung out there by members with no explanation as to how it is relevant 13 years later, and it certainly leaves an impression of an attempt to cast the victim in a negative light.

Going back to cause and effect, I think we all have to ask ourselves, how does one relate to the other.

By contrast, discussing the recent divorce filing in relation to GF’s family lawsuit within a timeframe more directly related to the killing is simply part and parcel of current legal events surrounding this incident. It’s a given that his wife has filed for divorce, the timeframe is relevant, and it is in no way disparaging her but a matter of discussing potential legal issues related to how that may impact either the divorce or the family lawsuit.

As for discussing the fact that the autopsy showed he had tested positive for Covid and had drugs in his system, again it needs to be shown as to how those factors may relate to him being killed instead of leaving a veiled impression of judgment or that he was somehow responsible for his death.

 

[Nadi]

I think they might, with good lawyers. Is there evidence Chauvin was drunk? In your analogy, the surgeon was at fault, others were assisting. They would not be at fault IMO.ih7
Nothing went wrong till Chauvin turned up and took charge. They were rookies he was their Supervisor.

The specifics of my analogy weren’t the point. I tried to use a reasonably plausible example where subordinates are aware of criminal behaviour and not only didn’t stop the behaviour but actively assisted in the behaviour. It’s not like I could have used an example of a surgeon kneeling on a patients neck for 9 mins. IMO, I don’t care if he was their supervisor, they had a duty to stop him. It’s not like he shot the suspect before they had a chance to stop him. They had close to 9 mins to stop him.

 

[tmar]

WOW: killed over "suspicion of passing a counterfeit $20 bill at a nearby store."

Body camera video could offer more detail in Floyd encounter

Body camera video could offer more detail in Floyd encounter

By AMY FORLITI, Associated Press
5 hrs ago
...
According to the criminal complaints, the officers were arresting Floyd for suspicion of passing a counterfeit $20 bill at a nearby store. At one point, they struggled to get him into a squad car, Chauvin pulled him out and Floyd “went to the ground face down and still handcuffed.”

 

[SouthAussie]

I think they might, with good lawyers. Is there evidence Chauvin was drunk? In your analogy, the surgeon was at fault, others were assisting. They would not be at fault IMO.ih7
Nothing went wrong till Chauvin turned up and took charge. They were rookies he was their Supervisor.

There are others that agree that prosecuting Lane and Kueng may be challenging ... due to deference to a senior officer.


Another likely focus for the two most junior officers—who reportedly earned their law enforcement licenses just last August—will be "chain of command." During the incident one of the rookie officers, Thomas K. Lane, repeatedly urged turning Floyd on his side—apparently to let him breathe more easily—but was overruled each time by Chauvin, the 19-year veteran. A jury will probably be asked to grapple with whether the more junior officers were justified in deferring to the much more senior officer, or should have defied him under these life-and-death circumstances.

According to the criminal complaints, the body-worn cameras of the two rookie officers, Lane, 37, and J. Alexander Kueng, 26, were running throughout the incident.

https://www.newsweek.com/prosecutor...rs-will-struggle-get-four-convictions-1509258

 

[Sillybilly]

WOW: killed over "suspicion of passing a counterfeit $20 bill at a nearby store."

Body camera video could offer more detail in Floyd encounter

Body camera video could offer more detail in Floyd encounter

By AMY FORLITI, Associated Press
5 hrs ago
...
According to the criminal complaints, the officers were arresting Floyd for suspicion of passing a counterfeit $20 bill at a nearby store. At one point, they struggled to get him into a squad car, Chauvin pulled him out and Floyd “went to the ground face down and still handcuffed.”

From that same article "In the Floyd case, Bruce Gordon, a spokesman for the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, confirmed that body camera video captured portions of the incident." <bbm>

Portions?

 

[drama_farmer]

From that same article "In the Floyd case, Bruce Gordon, a spokesman for the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, confirmed that body camera video captured portions of the incident." <bbm>

Portions?

Wouldn't surprise me if their cams were on and recording, but pointed at the ground or sky. Kinda on purpose, maybe? Imo

 

[SleuthBee]

BBM

We don't have any proof of them beating on him in the car but...….. LE did call an ambulance stating he had a mouth injury and...… bystanders commented that he had blood running from his nose.

JMO

Yes we do. Taken from page 1 of GF's autopsy:

I. Blunt force injuries
A. Cutaneous blunt force injuries of the forehead, face, and upper lip
B. Mucosal injuries of the lips
C. Cutaneous blunt force injuries of the shoulders, hands, elbows, and legs
D. Patterned contusions (in some areas abraded) of the wrists, consistent with restraints (handcuffs)

A, B, and C sure appear to be injuries to me. Also, in this video, beginning at frame 3:28 (Chauvin's arrival). Look closely at what is going on in the back of that police cruiser. While I am no physician, I am trained and educated enough to comprehend an autopsy. So, I will throw letter D back in because handcuffs are not suppose to be tight enough to damage blood vessels. Contusions are bruises which occurs from blood leaking from the vessels.

Does this not show intent on Chauvin's part?

ETA: Oops, forgot to link the video

 

[Lilibet]

A jury will probably be asked to grapple with whether the more junior officers were justified in deferring to the much more senior officer, or should have defied him under these life-and-death circumstances.

“Just following orders.” That defense didn’t cut it at the Nuremberg trials after WWII.

(And no, I’m citing a principle, not comparing these cops to Nazis.)

 

[SouthAussie]

“Just following orders.” That defense didn’t cut it at the Nuremberg trials after WWII.

(And no, I’m citing a principle, not comparing these cops to Nazis.)

I imagine that the jury will be selected very carefully - when the time comes - with the defence attorneys trying desperately to include jury members who may be swayed by their argument.

 

[SleuthBee]

If they are un funded now, how could they be sued if they have no funds? Or would the state be sued instead?

I think a good lawyer would get the two rookies off if the body cams reveal they were following Chauvin's instructions.

Liability Insurance.

 

[Sillybilly]

“Just following orders.” That defense didn’t cut it at the Nuremberg trials after WWII.

(And no, I’m citing a principle, not comparing these cops to Nazis.)

It shouldn't cut it in this case either.

Duty to intervene: Minneapolis cops who helped arrest George Floyd spoke up but didn’t step in

Minneapolis police added a “duty to intervene” policy in 2016, saying officers are required to “either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required.” City officials moved Friday to strengthen that duty by seeking to make it enforceable in court, and to require officers to immediately report to their superiors when they see use of any neck restraint or chokehold.

 

[Nadi]

Maybe the accomplice officers mistakenly thought their Oath to Serve & Protect meant serve and protect their superior officers.

 

[Jax49]

The argument I'd make if serving on the jury: the rookie officers may have only been on duty a short time, but they've been human beings for decades. moo

 

[Sillybilly]

Probably an over-simplication here, but judges don't need proof as much as they can simply make a determination based on their knowledge of circumstances and chronology whether or not there was "intent" on either party's behalf.

<snip>

To clarify (hopefully) .. what I really meant is that whatever is presented to a judge would be circumstantial evidence from which an inference can be drawn as opposed to "proof" (as in direct evidence).

 

[tresir2012]

No, not saying his past can't be even mentioned. It is part of GF’s life, but it begs the question of how that criminal past relates to his killing at the hands of these officers. This is not directed at you Tresir. Just that sometimes it seems to get hung out there by members with no explanation as to how it is relevant 13 years later, and it certainly leaves an impression of an attempt to cast the victim in a negative light.

Going back to cause and effect, I think we all have to ask ourselves, how does one relate to the other.

By contrast, discussing the recent divorce filing in relation to GF’s family lawsuit within a timeframe more directly related to the killing is simply part and parcel of current legal events surrounding this incident. It’s a given that his wife has filed for divorce, the timeframe is relevant, and it is in no way disparaging her but a matter of discussing potential legal issues related to how that may impact either the divorce or the family lawsuit.

As for discussing the fact that the autopsy showed he had tested positive for Covid and had drugs in his system, again it needs to be shown as to how those factors may relate to him being killed instead of leaving a veiled impression of judgment or that he was somehow responsible for his death.

I think the defence are likely to claim those 3 autopsy findings contributed to his death from being knelt on by three officers, so it would be useful to be prepared for that to possibly be put forward by the defence. They certainly won't ignore those details IMO.
The blunt force trauma to his face is possibly due to him being roughly pulled out of the car and hitting his face on the floor. With his hands cuffed behind him that is what would happen as he could not save himself. Although we don't clearly see what went on in the back of the car before he was pulled through by Chauvin, so it could have happened then too.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes we do. Taken from page 1 of GF's autopsy:

I. Blunt force injuries
A. Cutaneous blunt force injuries of the forehead, face, and upper lip
B. Mucosal injuries of the lips
C. Cutaneous blunt force injuries of the shoulders, hands, elbows, and legs
D. Patterned contusions (in some areas abraded) of the wrists, consistent with restraints (handcuffs)

A, B, and C sure appear to be injuries to me. Also, in this video, beginning at frame 3:28 (Chauvin's arrival). Look closely at what is going on in the back of that police cruiser. While I am no physician, I am trained and educated enough to comprehend an autopsy. So, I will throw letter D back in because handcuffs are not suppose to be tight enough to damage blood vessels. Contusions are bruises which occurs from blood leaking from the vessels.

Does this not show intent on Chauvin's part?

ETA: Oops, forgot to link the video

Chauvin didn't put the cuffs on but did yank him out of the car.