MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[Dave K]

Dave K...your post #690....I said it long ago on WS....the story of Jacob's abduction was on that driveway. If you can decipher the mess of print evidence as pictured on the available photos I fully support you-and good luck. Maybe you'll find something others have not....but I'm not too confidant the driveway was preserved to reflect the crime scene as it happened.

I agree with this. That's pretty much the extent of any forensic evidence. I feel strongly that the driveway was Not Preserved and Processed nearly as effectively as it could and should have been. So, I'm just not certain what all can be done with it; but, I think that since it's there, it should be looked at, in case something does come of it.

 

[cGorg]

If Sasquatch's comment of the pause in the tire track holds true...then the vehicle is a rear wheel drive if indeed it was heading east.

 

[Dave K]

And 1 more last question: is the tire track as shown in the photo the driver's side or the passenger's side of the vehicle?

cGorg

IMHO...the bottom cast(parallel to tire track) is for the tire track, the middle cast(perpendicular to tire track) is the perp footprint, and the top cast(perpendicular to the tire track) in the picture is Jacob's last footprint. This means the rear driver's side tire came to a stop between the 'bottom cast' and the 'middle cast'. I have deducted that the photo is looking east and thus indicating the tire track was proceeding east.

Ok, your saying that you think the picture is facing East. East would be toward the DR farmhouse. Now, I think that your also referring to the picture which shows the plaster casts; in that picture the driveway goes from top to bottom, so east would be toward the top of the photo and in the other photos, the driveway goes from left to right. My main focus has been on the view that goes from left to right. On those, I don't know for sure, but, I'm thinking that in those photos, the left would be to the west, toward the road, and to the right, would be to the east, toward the farmhouse. This is something that I'd really like to get clarification on; so far, I'm not certain how; I have one idea, if I can find a picture that covers more of the driveway and see how the plaster casts are positioned, if I can find the right photo; so far I can't.

Also though, it gets more complicated; as far as we know; because, we don't know; the car could have been pointing east at the time and Jacob could have been put into the vehicle from the passenger side, then the car, maybe continues up the driveway and turns around and comes back out; or, if the car was already pointing west, toward the road, then Jacob may have been put in on the driver's side. So, it matters, which way the driveway travels in the photos. But, again, I'm not certain whether there are pictures available, that we can figure that out from.

It gets a little more complicated. Toward the very bottom, there is another tire track. However, I don't know whether you can really tell, whether it's the corresponding track to the main one we're looking at, or a track from another vehicle. Actually, to me, from what I can see, I think that it's not the corresponding track. You can never see, both tracks left/right side, of the car in any one photo that I've found. So, if the one at the bottom of the screen is the corresponding track (other side of the same car) then everything's all out of whack, because then Jacob would have to have been standing right where the car itself would have been to make that shoe print. That couldn't happen. So, I thinking that the corresponding track has to be on the other side, toward, actually past, the top of the left/right photos, and we can't see it in the picture.

I'm gonna try to put together a graphic showing the other track I'm talking about, toward the bottom of the picture, and what I'm thinking is east and west of the driveway, and where the corresponding track would be on the other side. I'm a little more convinced that the tire track at the bottom of the screen is not the corresponding track; because, if you follow the trajectory of that track, it tracks downward, toward the left, whereas the other track goes straight. If you look, the distance between the two tracks is greater toward the left of the picture, than it is to the right.

The brown line across the bottom is just above and kind of outlines, the 2nd track toward the bottom of the page. The brown line across the top, is where I think the corresponding track must, further up, off the page where we can't see it. I'm thinking that left is West? and right is East? so I marked the photo like that.

I'm gonna also include one more pic that I had done about the other shoe prints in this, just because I didn't include them in the last, and they may be helpful. Also, I'll just include a shot of the scene, without any markings.

Edit/addition: I'm really aggravated by this. I can not find any photo or video which so much as shows the entire width of the driveway; no image which shows the two sets of corresponding left/right tire tracks. It's as if, LE doesn't want any information out in the public whereas someone may discover something that they had not. In addition to the crime scene (driveway) should have been better preserved and processed, it should have been much better documented, in both photos and videos. It may well have been, but, LE is sure not willing to share that with the public.

I indicated West? and East? in the photos, and they may well be reversed, this has to be clarified a bit further, I included the question marks in the graphic for that reason. So far, no observations in the photos or text are dependent on which way is east or west, but, I do want to clarify it. I'm still working on it. ELOCsoul pointed this out.

 

[Trino]

I think it's great that the footprint is further being examined, but where does this fit into the investigation, except to indicate DR was probably not involved and that JW was taken from the area? How would the tracks find JW?

 

[HEY YOU!]

All of these pictures I am posting are from the video that has been previously linked here.

View attachment 65730
This is the type sneaker that Jacob was wearing Note the specific pattern and how the sole has a pattern all the way down it.

View attachment 65731
This is a shot of Jacobs last print, directly in front of the tire tread mark. No where in the visible print field beyond the tire print do we see any additional prints from this shoe pattern.

View attachment 65732
This is a close up of the toe portion of the print. Note the mounding around the front of the print and the small stones. The mounding ends at the tire print suggesting that the rear tire rolled over the mounding that would have extended further. The white stone in the car tire print has been forced into the ground, but by only one tire, not both. This was a stone roll from the mounding on Jacobs print.

View attachment 65733
The print with the red arrow is Jacobs. Who's print is identified by the blue arrow? It is a ribbed pattern crepe sole. Odd that it does not appear to be from a normal pair of shoes of that era. It does not have an individual heel such as a police or fire boot or shoe would have. Think flip-flop sole on a shoe and you get the idea. Very odd as I would not expect LE or Search teams to be wearing that type of shoe. The individual came into the print with a heavy heel, then pushed off with their toe and created the disturbance in the center where the arch would be. Note Jacobs print again. It is toe deep and heel light indicating he was on his right front half of the shoe when the print was made, and the depth and mounding indicate force. I cannot get a good view of the left print which appears to be all toe and digging in (below the red arrow). This indicates leaning forward with all his weight.....but the million dollar question. Where are his prints leading up to these? I am guessing carried here, put down and pulled into a car......BUT other scenario's are possible.

The lack of a large print field just tells me the perp likely covered or wiped out his tracks. Maybe he shuffled up the driveway carrying Jacob a short way until he walked on the grass. There should be DR prints there as he lived there. Where are all of the footprints? Who had access to that driveway between 3am and 6am when cops were not on scene? Who essentially drove and walked through the crime scene the very next morning, going so far as to lift the yellow crime scene tape and walk on the scene? Where are DR footprints from earlier when he walked down the driveway and back up after getting his mail?

 

[Trackergd]

I am not seeing evidence that the perp wiped the tracks. There are some indicators I look for and I am not seeing them.

 

[Trackergd]

I think it's great that the footprint is further being examined, but where does this fit into the investigation, except to indicate DR was probably not involved and that JW was taken from the area? How would the tracks find JW?

How will the tracks find JW, good question. Had detailed photographs been taken that documented the particular patterns, wear patterns and sizes, they could have been matched to shoes owned by DR, his family, friends and other known abusers in the area. That option is now lost unless LE documented a lot more than we know. The documentation process is very time consuming and detailed using a grid pattern on each and every print and noting pressure releases which would have indicated weight, speed of movement, physical issues etc... in addition to the make of the shoe and a possible clue where they could be purchased in the regional area.

Dave is asking great questions and should probably get a copy of Tracking and Nature Observation by Tom Brown.

 

[ELOCsoul]

View attachment 65942 View attachment 65943 View attachment 65944

Ok, your saying that you think the picture is facing East. East would be toward the DR farmhouse. Now, I think that your also referring to the picture which shows the plaster casts; in that picture the driveway goes from top to bottom, so east would be toward the top of the photo and in the other photos, the driveway goes from left to right. My main focus has been on the view that goes from left to right. On those, I don't know for sure, but, I'm thinking that in those photos, the left would be to the west, toward the road, and to the right, would be to the east, toward the farmhouse. This is something that I'd really like to get clarification on; so far, I'm not certain how; I have one idea, if I can find a picture that covers more of the driveway and see how the plaster casts are positioned, if I can find the right photo; so far I can't.

Also though, it gets more complicated; as far as we know; because, we don't know; the car could have been pointing east at the time and Jacob could have been put into the vehicle from the passenger side, then the car, maybe continues up the driveway and turns around and comes back out; or, if the car was already pointing west, toward the road, then Jacob may have been put in on the driver's side. So, it matters, which way the driveway travels in the photos. But, again, I'm not certain whether there are pictures available, that we can figure that out from.

It gets a little more complicated. Toward the very bottom, there is another tire track. However, I don't know whether you can really tell, whether it's the corresponding track to the main one we're looking at, or a track from another vehicle. Actually, to me, from what I can see, I think that it's not the corresponding track. You can never see, both tracks left/right side, of the car in any one photo that I've found. So, if the one at the bottom of the screen is the corresponding track (other side of the same car) then everything's all out of whack, because then Jacob would have to have been standing right where the car itself would have been to make that shoe print. That couldn't happen. So, I thinking that the corresponding track has to be on the other side, toward, actually past, the top of the left/right photos, and we can't see it in the picture.

I'm gonna try to put together a graphic showing the other track I'm talking about, toward the bottom of the picture, and what I'm thinking is east and west of the driveway, and where the corresponding track would be on the other side. I'm a little more convinced that the tire track at the bottom of the screen is not the corresponding track; because, if you follow the trajectory of that track, it tracks downward, toward the left, whereas the other track goes straight. If you look, the distance between the two tracks is greater toward the left of the picture, than it is to the right.

The brown line across the bottom is just above and kind of outlines, the 2nd track toward the bottom of the page. The brown line across the top, is where I think the corresponding track must, further up, off the page where we can't see it. I'm thinking that left is West? and right is East? so I marked the photo like that.

I'm gonna also include one more pic that I had done about the other shoe prints in this, just because I didn't include them in the last, and they may be helpful. Also, I'll just include a shot of the scene, without any markings.

I looked at the pictures and I believe you have East and West wrong. If you look closely at the prints, you'll see shadows in them, always toward the top and toward the left side. The driveway runs east and west, which means that the photographer was standing north of the the prints when they took these photos, and Jacob's footprints indicate he was looking south.

Further, if the stone was driven over just once as Tracker suggested, that means the car would have been heading west, or towards 91st Avenue, when / if Jacob was put into the car.

Now, if that's the case, then it also means that Jacob would have had to circle around an open car door on the car's passenger side. I wonder if the prints are supportive of a person circling around a door and climbing into the back seat? The reason I say back seat, is because if Jacob was taken by a car heading west, then it means that DR was telling the truth, and that there was already a person in the front seat of the car, as he said he witnessed.

 

[Dave K]

I looked at the pictures and I believe you have East and West wrong. If you look closely at the prints, you'll see shadows in them, always toward the top and toward the left side. The driveway runs east and west, which means that the photographer was standing north of the the prints when they took these photos, and Jacob's footprints indicate he was looking south.

Further, if the stone was driven over just once as Tracker suggested, that means the car would have been heading west, or towards 91st Avenue, when / if Jacob was put into the car.

Now, if that's the case, then it also means that Jacob would have had to circle around an open car door on the car's passenger side. I wonder if the prints are supportive of a person circling around a door and climbing into the back seat? The reason I say back seat, is because if Jacob was taken by a car heading west, then it means that DR was telling the truth, and that there was already a person in the front seat of the car, as he said he witnessed.

Thanks a lot; I think I got it; or, I may have to spend a little more time and revise this. I think what you're saying is that, it was morning, so, sun was rising in the east, therefore shadows in the prints reflect the sun coming from the left side of the screen; in which case, the photo was taken from north of the area, placing the sun to the left. So, where I put West? should be East and same with East? should be West.

Also, this is fine, because, so far, I haven't made any observations that were dependent on which way was east/west on the driveway. As I had mentioned in the post, it's something that I was still trying to clarify. Thanks a lot, I'm still working on this...

 

[Trackergd]

The green star is on the most recent tire track. There is no corresponding new tire track for the other side of the vehicle. Note next to the green star is an indirect register of the front tire. My read is the vehicle is moving away from the point of view of the camera. The front tire of the vehicle stopped where the green star is.

The blue star is a high flotation tire such as used on an ATV or liquid fertilizer vehicle such as used on farms. There are a lot of prints all over it. Possibly from investigators and anyone else who walked in the print field.

The red stars are older tire prints. The second red star from the left "could" be the corresponding print to the blue star one.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I am not seeing evidence that the perp wiped the tracks. There are some indicators I look for and I am not seeing them.

Speaking about the last known Jacob print, why is there only 1? I see no other Jacob prints in the immediate vicinity of that last one and only 1 other shoe print in that picture. If the perp dropped Jacob or put him down briefly, his prints would be right next to Jacob's last print and probably show signs of movement, not a stable, clear print. I only see 1 perp (or other) print in that picture. How is that explained? There are no other prints in that picture. Why? If you say investigators ruined the scene, where are the investigator's footprints?

 

[Trackergd]

This print field is a nightmare. There is the very obvious new tire track. I am very interested in the spot inside the red square. I am unable to blow it up enough to see what is going on. There is a fracture in the center which indicates weight or force. There were searchers, ATV's and horses all over the print field after the scene was cleared. Not sure at what point the video was taken.

It would have probably taken me at least two days to process this print field, even if it had been pristine, which it was not. The sad part is the whole story was here to be read and now it is lost....

 

[Dave K]

View attachment 65953

This print field is a nightmare. There is the very obvious new tire track. I am very interested in the spot inside the red square. I am unable to blow it up enough to see what is going on. There is a fracture in the center which indicates weight or force. There were searchers, ATV's and horses all over the print field after the scene was cleared. Not sure at what point the video was taken.
It would have probably taken me at least two days to process this print field, even if it had been pristine, which it was not. The sad part is the whole story was here to be read and now it is lost....

As you know, I share your aggravation; to some great extent. As to, when the video was taken. That's been another factor that I've been trying to come to some kind of conclusion on. I'm thinking that it was the day after the abduction, which as far as I know, was the only day that this particular part of the crime scene was processed; and, probably released too early. In much of the footage, the red crime scene tape is seen lying on the ground; also, in some of the footage, the plaster casts are laid out on the driveway. I'm thinking that the video was taken, probably shortly after they had just processed and then "released" the crime scene, took the tape down, but, left it still laying on the driveway, had the plaster casts still sitting there, etc...

 

[Trackergd]

Speaking about the last known Jacob print, why is there only 1? I see no other Jacob prints in the immediate vicinity of that last one and only 1 other shoe print in that picture. If the perp dropped Jacob or put him down briefly, his prints would be right next to Jacob's last print and probably show signs of movement, not a stable, clear print. I only see 1 perp (or other) print in that picture. How is that explained? There are no other prints in that picture. Why? If you say investigators ruined the scene, where are the investigator's footprints?

Keep in mind this is like an NTSB Air Crash Investigator trying to figure out why a plane crashed with photographs of only three or four components.

There is what I think is Jacobs other print to the left of the clear print, but it is only a deep toe impression.

I have more questions than answers since I cannot access all the photographs LE has.

 

[thenotebook]

Dave K, I think that is a great discovery that hasn't been noticed here yet. While looking at this image I'm wondering if I am noticing a tire coming to a stop and going again-

View attachment 65937

And if this is a tire starting and stopping, then this can't be Kevin's vehicle. He stated to Joy that he drove all the way up to the farm house area and turned around up there. So this would have to be the perp's vehicle

 

[nmogren]

Are we positive that the deep impression print is Jacob's?

 

[Dave K]

Are we positive that the deep impression print is Jacob's?

It's been identified as such in a number of different formats. Here's one, which is Shergal's Bucket; you'll see the first three pics are identified as Jacob's print/final footprint. It occurred to me when you asked that question, then I was trying to think of a good reference, that there's really no site of "official" Jacob Wetterling photos/information. Mostly what's been gathered from news reports either print or video. At least as far as I know.

http://s100.photobucket.com/user/sh...5e-48d1-b7d7-95763981ab51.jpg.html?sort=4&o=0

It's also been noted that the print was matched up with the type of shoe that Jacob was known to have been wearing. Tracker has a picture of it on one of his previous, recent posts #604.

 

[nmogren]

Deep impression foot prints can be made by someone squatting down to look at tire tracks such as LE was surely doing.


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[Trackergd]

Deep impression foot prints can be made by someone squatting down to look at tire tracks such as LE was surely doing.


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Sure, but the prints identified as Jacobs have the identical pattern of the make and model sneaker Jacob had (and that I illustrated in photographs in a previous post). I would hope that LE measured them to verify size.

Someone squatting would not have made such a deep front impression with mounding and stone rolls that we see in Jacobs last print.

 

[ThePhantom]

I think Jared has seen all of the potential suspects over the years. I wish he'd join this board!

I think there is another viable suspect on the roster that we can't discuss because he hasn't been named in MSM. Very frustrating!

What is most disheartening to me is that LE hasn't been able to gather enough evidence after 25 years to make any movements in the case. We live in an age with the most advanced forensic technology and so many eyes have read those case files. There is no such thing as a perfect crime. How can this case NOT BE SOLVED after this long?!?

TheNoteBook ... Tis truly a pity when truth could be so close and yet so far ......