MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[human]

Oh?...thx but why?

Because the media needed pictures for the story. The biggest thing in MN!

With this additional info that prints were being made at 1:00 AM that is the only thing that makes sense.

They would make casts as soon as they could because it could rain, dew or frost would change everything, a deer could run accross the road, what else?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Because the media needed pictures for the story. The biggest thing in MN!

With this additional info that prints were being made at 1:00 AM that is the only thing that makes sense.

They would make casts as soon as they could because it could rain, dew or frost would change everything, a deer could run accross the road, what else?

If they made casts at 1 am the same night then DR could not have planted the footprints and Jacob was taken by a vehicle on the driveway.

 

[human]

If they made casts at 1 am the same night then DR could not have planted the footprints and Jacob was taken by a vehicle on the driveway.

He was taken by vehicle because??????

 

[Sasquatch321]

He was taken by vehicle because??????

I don't believe they made casts of the prints we are looking at because that picture looks like an afternoon picture to me, so I backtrack on that statement for now. The footprints we are looking at haven't had plaster poured into them yet, the footprints may still be planted.

 

[Dave K]

If they made casts at 1 am the same night then DR could not have planted the footprints and Jacob was taken by a vehicle on the driveway.

I don't know whether it's known or not, whether they made print casts at night or not; I expect they could have, and the reasons that Human just gave would make sense. They also could have done both, that night, and again the next day; at night, in case it rained, etc..., the next day, for better conditions, since the crime scene was still in tact. In either case, I'd feel pretty certain that they 'Inspected' the crime scene well enough on the night of the abduction, and, if nothing else, took pictures, and for that reason, I think that the likelihood of anyone planting prints, after that, in the over night hours, is really (almost completely) unlikely.

Edit: Sasquatch's post just above this, points out that since the print picture photos that we're aware of were taken in the day, then, that pretty much rules out that the same prints had been plaster casted the night before. There had been some discussion on the issue because, it's reported that Kevin's GF's brother, called him/them at 1:am and told them that the FBI was making plaster casts of the prints. I suppose it's still possible that they made some casts of the tire prints that night, and, that's actually pretty much what Kevin has said.
Sasquatch's post wasn't up, when I started writing this. I think that my point about, that the prints would have been noticed, and likely photographed either way is still valid.

 

[Dave K]

I don't believe they made casts of the prints we are looking at because that picture looks like an afternoon picture to me, so I backtrack on that statement for now. The footprints we are looking at haven't had plaster poured into them yet, the footprints may still be planted.

That's a good point; if they had made plaster casts at night, then, I don't think they would have been able to take the pictures that we've seen, which were taken in the daytime. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Dave K]

Well this picture will show why I think those two with the black boxes are connected as Jacobs "right" shoe, I have located another shoe print (Black Arrows) that puts the eggshape on the other side making it his "left" shoe, and stepping down twice there-

View attachment 66071

I guess we're seeing this differently. Thanks for the response.

 

[human]

That's a good point; if they had made plaster casts at night, then, I don't think they would have been able to take the pictures that we've seen, which were taken in the daytime. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This print stuff is a real conundrum unless those particular prints in the media have little to do with the actual last prints. There could and should be lots of prints.

Perhaps these are not the actual last prints at all.

Really, would the media be allowed on the crime scene like that? Seems impossible to believe.

But it makes sense that those prints had not been cast before.

To me, that whole pic of taking prints makes no sense after thinking about it.

That would be pretty late in the morning, then, when that pic was taken.

That does not compute , for me.

 

[human]

As far as Kevin and looking at the bikes, any stops would be way at the end of the driveway or the beginning, depending on how you want to label the driveway as far as beginning or end.

 

[HEY YOU!]

Because the media needed pictures for the story. The biggest thing in MN!

With this additional info that prints were being made at 1:00 AM that is the only thing that makes sense.

They would make casts as soon as they could because it could rain, dew or frost would change everything, a deer could run accross the road, what else?

Just because Kevin's brother told him that the FBI were making casts of the prints in the driveway at 1:00 am that night, didn't necessarily mean that they were doing it that night only that they were going to do it or were talking about doing it. I'm sure since Kevin told his brother about his little drive that his brother was informing him of what was going to go down in regards to the investigation and Kevin's tire tracks. Need proof that FBI made casts the night of the abduction. It looks like pics were taken in daytime. Again, could be just media pics and other work was done overnight.

 

[Trackergd]

View attachment 66034

Now that we have identified 2 of Jacobs shoe prints in this picture, what does it mean that one of the footprints overlaps the tire track (white arrow) and the other one is driven over by the tire track (red arrow)?

I don't know that I agree the white arrow to be one of Jacobs prints.

 

[Dave K]

This print stuff is a real conundrum unless those particular prints in the media have little to do with the actual last prints. There could and should be lots of prints.

Perhaps these are not the actual last prints at all.

Really, would the media be allowed on the crime scene like that? Seems impossible to believe.

But it makes sense that those prints had not been cast before.

To me, that whole pic of taking prints makes no sense after thinking about it.

That would be pretty late in the morning, then, when that pic was taken.

That does not compute , for me.

I've had to wonder a lot of the same things. With what I see as LE's basic insistence that no information will be released to the public; I think that, what we're looking at, is the very least that could have been released. I've kind of figured that likely, the news organizations showed up on Monday, and they probably were kept off the scene to some great extent, while the actual investigation was going on; but, that likely, at some point, they insisted that they had to be allowed some footage, and, you'll notice that the crime scene tape is laying on the ground by the time these videos were taken, so, they were given somewhat limited access. At least that had been my thinking up to now.

But, you know what; conundrum's a good word. Something just hit me as I was typing this. We have a good close up of Jacob's last foot print. We have several screen shots of video footage of that same print and it's position right next to the tire track, we have screen shots of the plaster cast molds sitting on the drive.

These screen shots are all taken from the same video. 1st pic is close up of Jacob's last print. It looks pretty pristine, so, I think it's correct to presume that the photo was taken before any plaster had been poured in to make a cast. The other pics, show the general area from different views, also, apparently before any plaster had been poured into the various shoe and tire prints. One of the pics shows the plaster cast molds sitting on the driveway, (actually sitting directly on the fresh tire track, which makes me wonder why); so, I guess it makes sense to presume that these are molds of the prints taken after the previously mentioned photos were taken. But, in the other pictures, you can see that there is red crime scene tape laying on the ground in a somewhat haphazard manner. My thinking would be that this would be because at that time, the crime scene was at least 'somewhat' released, or, already processed, however you want to look at it. However, given the circumstances, what sense does that make that the crime scene is unprotected at a time, when, as noted, the prints, etc.. had not yet been taken, as far as plaster casts not yet made, at the time the video was taken. Now, I know that one of the pics does in fact show that plaster casts were made, but, as I described above, that really doesn't change the rest of what I just tried to describe. And, the crime scene tape was even shown to be down in that picture. It's occurred to me, I suppose that it's possible that there was really no reason to make plaster molds of Jacob's print; photographs may have been sufficient for that; I really don't know. I agree with Human that there could and should be lots of prints, I would thing, probably a lot of photographs, but, LE sure doesn't want to share. Something else I'm curious about now, in a real recent post Sasquatch mentioned that the pics were taken in the afternoon, and Human mentions here that 'it would have been late in the morning when the pics were taken; I really would like to know, if anyone knows, or if there's any way to know, just around what time of day the pics were taken; keeping in mind that most of the pics were looking at, came from a video from a local news station. I suppose that it's possible that the station was given the video from the LE, in which case, they only had what LE would give them; and then they put their letters on the video when they aired it. Hard to say I guess. But, generally speaking the processing of this specific crime scene is really hard to figure.

 

[ELOCsoul]

OK, here’s my take on the prints.

Let’s start with what we know for certain:
1. The dirt driveway runs east and west.
2. Jacob’s last known footprints were at about 120’ up the driveway.
3. There were fresh car tracks right next to Jacob’s last known footprints.
4. Jacob’s scent was not picked up the bloodhound beyond the last known footprints.
5. From the shadows in the pictures, and from what is believed to be Jacob’s last footprint, we know that Jacob’s last footprints were of him facing to the south.

Now, let’s summarize Tracker’s professional opinions that he has offered in previous posts:
1. There appears to be a front tire “stop” mark in the print field.
2. The car appears to be heading east, away from the abduction scene, toward the Rassier family buildings. This again is deduced from the shadows, and Tracker’s professional opinion.
3. The white stone in front of Jacob’s footprint was rolled from the toe mound, and was only driven over by one tire.

From the above information, and assuming that Jacob was taken by the car that left the tracks in the photos, here is a likely scenario of what may have happened:
1. The car was parked 120’ up the Rassier driveway, heading east.
2. The abductor dragged or carried Jacob up the driveway to the waiting car, and coerced Jacob into the driver’s side of the car.
3. The driver drove all the way up to the Rassier farm buildings, turned around, and then left.

The above scenario is supported by DR’s account of seeing a car turn around by his house at about the time of the abduction. He said he saw a woman or boy in the front passenger seat of the car, with their hands cupped over their eyes. The description of the car he witnessed, by DR’s own admission, does not match the description of Kevin’s car. So, Kevin would have been later.

So here are some of the problems with the scenario as described above:
1. If the abductor’s car was heading east toward the buildings, where are the tracks he left when he returned back down the driveway?
2. Where are Kevin’s tracks? There were brand new tires on the car he was driving. They should stand out, especially LE originally thought that Kevin’s tracks were those of the abductor.
3. How could Jacob’s footprints be so close to the car if he were leaning forward as the print impressions suggest? As close as those prints are, it would seem that Jacob would have to be lifted up and put in the car, by someone already inside the car (because if the person was outside the car, their prints would have to be right next to Jacob’s. Or, he was pulled into the car – but if that were the case he feet would have slid back away from the car because his shins against the bottom of the car would have been like a lever, forcing his feet backward as his body is pulled forward. We don’t see any indication of his feet sliding backward as far as I can tell.
4. DR insists the afternoon driver was the same as the evening driver, and that was the abductor. Let’s assume that’s true for a minute. Why then, would the abductor park heading to east, knowing he would have to drive all the way into the Rassier driveway? Why would he not turn around so he could make for a quicker get away?

Just my two cents.

 

[shergal]

OK, here’s my take on the prints.

Let’s start with what we know for certain:
1. The dirt driveway runs east and west.
2. Jacob’s last known footprints were at about 120’ up the driveway.
3. There were fresh car tracks right next to Jacob’s last known footprints.
4. Jacob’s scent was not picked up the bloodhound beyond the last known footprints.
5. From the shadows in the pictures, and from what is believed to be Jacob’s last footprint, we know that Jacob’s last footprints were of him facing to the south.

Now, let’s summarize Tracker’s professional opinions that he has offered in previous posts:
1. There appears to be a front tire “stop” mark in the print field.
2. The car appears to be heading east, away from the abduction scene, toward the Rassier family buildings. This again is deduced from the shadows, and Tracker’s professional opinion.
3. The white stone in front of Jacob’s footprint was rolled from the toe mound, and was only driven over by one tire.

From the above information, and assuming that Jacob was taken by the car that left the tracks in the photos, here is a likely scenario of what may have happened:
1. The car was parked 120’ up the Rassier driveway, heading east.
2. The abductor dragged or carried Jacob up the driveway to the waiting car, and coerced Jacob into the driver’s side of the car.
3. The driver drove all the way up to the Rassier farm buildings, turned around, and then left.

The above scenario is supported by DR’s account of seeing a car turn around by his house at about the time of the abduction. He said he saw a woman or boy in the front passenger seat of the car, with their hands cupped over their eyes. The description of the car he witnessed, by DR’s own admission, does not match the description of Kevin’s car. So, Kevin would have been later.

So here are some of the problems with the scenario as described above:
1. If the abductor’s car was heading east toward the buildings, where are the tracks he left when he returned back down the driveway?
2. Where are Kevin’s tracks? There were brand new tires on the car he was driving. They should stand out, especially LE originally thought that Kevin’s tracks were those of the abductor.
3. How could Jacob’s footprints be so close to the car if he were leaning forward as the print impressions suggest? As close as those prints are, it would seem that Jacob would have to be lifted up and put in the car, by someone already inside the car (because if the person was outside the car, their prints would have to be right next to Jacob’s. Or, he was pulled into the car – but if that were the case he feet would have slid back away from the car because his shins against the bottom of the car would have been like a lever, forcing his feet backward as his body is pulled forward. We don’t see any indication of his feet sliding backward as far as I can tell.
4. DR insists the afternoon driver was the same as the evening driver, and that was the abductor. Let’s assume that’s true for a minute. Why then, would the abductor park heading to east, knowing he would have to drive all the way into the Rassier driveway? Why would he not turn around so he could make for a quicker get away?

Just my two cents.

Maybe Kevin never went into the driveway at all. That's only what he said on Joy's blog, right? Originally, back in 2004, we were all under the impression that Kevin had just pulled into DR's driveway a bit, backed out and drove back towards Tom Thumb. That does seem much more likely, if you think about it. A local (Kevin) who claims to have known about the party spot would certainly have known DR's driveway was a dead end at their farm house.

Maybe LE just told Kevin to "say" he drove all the way in to DR's driveway to see what DR would say after that??

 

[shergal]

I've had to wonder a lot of the same things. With what I see as LE's basic insistence that no information will be released to the public; I think that, what we're looking at, is the very least that could have been released. I've kind of figured that likely, the news organizations showed up on Monday, and they probably were kept off the scene to some great extent, while the actual investigation was going on; but, that likely, at some point, they insisted that they had to be allowed some footage, and, you'll notice that the crime scene tape is laying on the ground by the time these videos were taken, so, they were given somewhat limited access. At least that had been my thinking up to now.

But, you know what; conundrum's a good word. Something just hit me as I was typing this. We have a good close up of Jacob's last foot print. We have several screen shots of video footage of that same print and it's position right next to the tire track, we have screen shots of the plaster cast molds sitting on the drive.

These screen shots are all taken from the same video. 1st pic is close up of Jacob's last print. It looks pretty pristine, so, I think it's correct to presume that the photo was taken before any plaster had been poured in to make a cast. The other pics, show the general area from different views, also, apparently before any plaster had been poured into the various shoe and tire prints. One of the pics shows the plaster cast molds sitting on the driveway, (actually sitting directly on the fresh tire track, which makes me wonder why); so, I guess it makes sense to presume that these are molds of the prints taken after the previously mentioned photos were taken. But, in the other pictures, you can see that there is red crime scene tape laying on the ground in a somewhat haphazard manner. My thinking would be that this would be because at that time, the crime scene was at least 'somewhat' released, or, already processed, however you want to look at it. However, given the circumstances, what sense does that make that the crime scene is unprotected at a time, when, as noted, the prints, etc.. had not yet been taken, as far as plaster casts not yet made, at the time the video was taken. Now, I know that one of the pics does in fact show that plaster casts were made, but, as I described above, that really doesn't change the rest of what I just tried to describe. And, the crime scene tape was even shown to be down in that picture. It's occurred to me, I suppose that it's possible that there was really no reason to make plaster molds of Jacob's print; photographs may have been sufficient for that; I really don't know. I agree with Human that there could and should be lots of prints, I would thing, probably a lot of photographs, but, LE sure doesn't want to share. Something else I'm curious about now, in a real recent post Sasquatch mentioned that the pics were taken in the afternoon, and Human mentions here that 'it would have been late in the morning when the pics were taken; I really would like to know, if anyone knows, or if there's any way to know, just around what time of day the pics were taken; keeping in mind that most of the pics were looking at, came from a video from a local news station. I suppose that it's possible that the station was given the video from the LE, in which case, they only had what LE would give them; and then they put their letters on the video when they aired it. Hard to say I guess. But, generally speaking the processing of this specific crime scene is really hard to figure.

View attachment 66098View attachment 66099 View attachment 66100 View attachment 66101 View attachment 66102

I think Jacob's print shows the photos/video were taken in the morning, not in the afternoon. Jacob's footprint was facing South. The shadow inside Jacob's footprint is on the left meaning the sun was still coming from the east and not directly overhead yet.

 

[ThePhantom]

Shergal, based on the evidence presented thus far, do you think DR is our man or someone else? Just curious and thanks!!!

 

[shergal]

Shergal, based on the evidence presented thus far, do you think DR is our man or someone else? Just curious and thanks!!!

I keep going back and forth on that question myself. If DR hadn't acted so odd in all his TV interviews, I probably wouldn't have him included in my possible suspects. I've said before I feel he is his own worst enemy. I don't so much feel he "did it" as he knows who did it or has covered for someone who did it - for some reason we don't know.

And yes, I have other suspects also in mind. Can't really say who though.

 

[Trino]

Your efforts are appreciated, but if someone were planning an abduction or even doing one on the spur of the moment, would they park or even drive into a driveway?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Your efforts are appreciated, but if someone were planning an abduction or even doing one on the spur of the moment, would they park or even drive into a driveway?

I would like to bump in on this one. I can't see a single man wanting to abandon his vehicle 120 feet behind him, but I think it makes more sense if there was 2 people.

 

[cGorg]

1. We don't know if there were 'entry' tracks and 'exit' tracks. But a good assumption is that there were both....otherwise LE would not have pursued the vehicle theory. And we don't have enough graphic info as every single picture seems to be cropped.
2. If there is only 1 set of tracks, i.e. 'entry' tracks then the vehicle entered from the pavement of 91st (16th) proceeded east 120 feet, parked, then started again but never to emerge again(unless it drove cross country?). This would mean the vehicle was stored on site that night. If LE never checked the outbuildings then it could conceivably be a farm vehicle. If it was indeed DR's personal vehicle then it's logical that LE would have been able to match those tire tracks with the 'fresh' track. But the 'fresh' track remained a mystery.
3. Kevin's tracks: I have trouble with these tracks because so much hinges upon their verification and their presence can swing the case either way. I also have trouble with LE not being able to identify these tracks...they were produced from brand new tires purchased locally. IMO it begs the question, if there were other tracks then those other tracks must have been old enough to eliminate them....which begs another question: how old is old enough? DR stated that he had a music lesson that morning(10-22-1989)...given the location of the farm I assume the student was dropped off in a car. Then, he also states a crazy driver sped through the farmstead in the afternoon and then later near the time of the abduction another vehicle went through the farmstead. Beyond that, Kevin then added his tracks to the mix. Now how long does it take a tire track to disseminate or fade? IDK...but depending upon weather conditions I've seen in my area tracks that will last a long long time if it doesn't rain. We know the weather conditions were warm + dry that day and the driveway a mix of gravel + sand thus impressionable intermittently. We also know that people tend to drive in roughly the same locations favoring the well travelled path....but I doubt all of these cars would have followed the same EXACT path....thus there should be tracks which are of latest time on top of older tracks. So IMHO, LE would have been able to decipher any tracks made by vehicles on the farm thus eliminating them first and proceeding from there. There's a video in shergal's bucket showing 2 LE officers walking east looking at the driveway....I assumed they were following tracks from the point of Jacob's last known scent + footprint and proceeding east to the turnaround in the farmstead. DR himself said there was a myriad of tracks in the turnaround and that LE had driven(or the horses had walked) all over them....yet he did the same the day after the abduction. I'm not saying anything conclusively one way or the other....but I would sure like to know if that track shown in the pictures matches Kevin's girlfriend's Grand Prix.