MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #3

[GrainneDhu]

That's a bit odd IMO. Whether or not he knows what happened to Jacob he knows what there is in his attic and is likely to have known way before the search was ever contemplated whether or not there is evidence that shows Jacob is dead in his lawn furniture and his notes. So if he is innocent and doesn't have any reason to suspect that some other perp used his umbrella stand to kill Jacob he would have been sure about this result, it would have been completely expected and a given for him. The fact that they didn't find Jacob's body in his attic shouldn't have changed his view of the odds that Jacob is alive or died somewhere else. If the police searched my basement and found no evidence about Madeleine McCann's death in there it wouldn't give me any particular increased hope that she is alive out there because I never expected them to find her in my basement anyway.

After watching the clip of the DR interview, my impression was that he has his own primary suspect but does not know precisely what happened to Jacob.

Not so different from the way many WS'ers, including me, approach various cases. In certain cases, I have a top suspect and am privately convinced that if LE just paid attention to ME (because it's all about me, you know <grin>), the case could be solved.

As for DR's relief, if he is factually innocent, it does appear that the perpetrator come onto/across the R's farm with Jacob. He may have wondered if the perpetrator or Jacob dropped something of Jacob's on their property that night.

To me, that would be a nightmare thought: to know I was innocent but that there may have been some evidence dropped on my property.

My impression was that he was somewhat clumsily trying to express some hope for Jacob.

 

[GrainneDhu]

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s1765250.shtml

<snip>Wetterling also asked Rassier if he had been playing a joke on the three boys and the joke went too far. During the meeting, Rassier told Wetterling what he saw the night Jacob went missing and again told her he had nothing to do with her son's disappearance

Rassier says 'I Only Know What I Witnessed' about Jacob Wetterling's Disappearance <snip>


WHAT??!?! Is it just me, or is this the first time he's admitted to seeing or witnessing something the night of the abduction?? Wow. I sure hope there is some kind of statement in the initial police report to back this up.

So, therefore, he was potentially OUTSIDE the very moment Jacob was kidnapped? He either saw or heard something, yet chose to go to bed. :banghead:

It may have been something that seemed completely innocent at the time and only acquired significance after Jacob was abducted.

I don't see any implication that he was actually outside at the time Jacob was being abducted; according to this chart, sunset is at approximately 6:11 pm for Minneapolis on 22 October:

http://www.happyzebra.com/timezones-worldclock/sunrisesunset.php?city=Minneapolis

That is for 2010; it may have varied a minute or two either way back in 1989, through some mysterious astronomical process I do not understand but it wouldn't vary more than that.

Living in the midwest and on a farm, I know that we tend to refer to any time after sunset as night. DR may have seen something literally hours before Jacob was abducted and it would still count as night.

For an example of something that seems insignificant at the time, anyone following the Kyron Horman case knows that white Ford pickups seem to be prominent. Yesterday afternoon, someone in a white pickup (I don't know if it was a Ford or not), used my driveway to turn around. I live over 2000 miles from Portland OR (where Kyron disappeared), so it doesn't have any significance to me.

But if Kyron were discovered somewhere in this area next week, then that white pickup truck in my driveway would suddenly seem very significant to me and I'd call LE.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The Wetterlings are moving on with their lives, fighting for children.

But I bet they think of Jacob almost every minute of every day. I bet the hole in their hearts hurts with an relentlessness pain.

Especially now when October 22 is coming up once again.

There are many of us whose lives were changed that day. I can't imagine how Jerry and Patty have dealt with this in such a positive way for all children.

I think having three other children probably had a lot to do with it.

I went to a seminar on how to help people deal with the serious chronic illness (such as cancer) of a child many years ago (for my job at the time). Something that has stuck with me was the presenter's point about making sure that every child in the family still gets adequate attention and energy, even if the parents want to completely focus all attention and energy on the child who is sick. Even older teenagers with a seriously ill much younger sibling need parental time and attention.

She said something along the lines of "one child's illness necessitates vigilance on the part of the parents against the risk that it will cause psychological illness in the siblings."

Jerry and Patty had three other children that they still had to do their best to raise into healthy, stable adults. I'm sure that knowing that helped them find the strength to get on with the job. And by extension, that strength carried them through as well.

Children are a blessing in obvious and not so obvious ways.

 

[Donjeta]

After watching the clip of the DR interview, my impression was that he has his own primary suspect but does not know precisely what happened to Jacob.

Not so different from the way many WS'ers, including me, approach various cases. In certain cases, I have a top suspect and am privately convinced that if LE just paid attention to ME (because it's all about me, you know <grin>), the case could be solved.

As for DR's relief, if he is factually innocent, it does appear that the perpetrator come onto/across the R's farm with Jacob. He may have wondered if the perpetrator or Jacob dropped something of Jacob's on their property that night.

To me, that would be a nightmare thought: to know I was innocent but that there may have been some evidence dropped on my property.

My impression was that he was somewhat clumsily trying to express some hope for Jacob.

Were there ever dogs or a thorough search on his property when Jacob first went missing? Dogs might have found items with his scent on them.

But IMO if they found Jacob's socks or shoes or some other item owned by him outside on his property it wouldn't IMO do much for the case. It couldn't definitely tie DR into the case because anyone could have dropped it as you say, even years after the crime.

If they had found items that were bones or had a huge amount of Jacob's blood on them it could have proven that he was dead but IMO the lack of proof of his death in Rassier's property says very little about the possibility of Jacob being dead or the hopes of Jacob being alive somewhere else.

It seems unlikely to me that the perp would have stayed on the Rassier property with Jacob to do whatever he planned to do to him unless he had access to a hideout because he must have thought that there would be police and searchers there pretty soon.

 

[Mandy113]

I keep thinking back to the boys not hearing a car, after Jacob was taken. Though I'm not sure in their terror, they would have been acutely aware of such sounds. I don't know for a fact. I'm sure there must be statistics somewhere on the accuracy of crime victim's statements.

I would think someone unfamiliar with the area would be in a rush to get away. They couldn't know how soon someone else might come upon the scene.

I don't know if DR is responsible for anything. As others have pointed out, I could read his statements in different ways. He has been interviewed by LE many, many times. Would they really keep going back to him all these years with nothing? I'm not so sure his keeping news clippings and a journal mentioning the case has any real significance. Simply his proximity to the event may have piqued his interest as much as anything. So I am totally undecided whether DR played a part in any of this.

What I do find most odd though are his statements indicating he had given LE leads which had not been followed up on. Why wouldn't LE follow any tips or leads? If he felt he was not being taken seriously, couldn't he have contacted the Wetterlings himself? He spoke directly with Patty months ago. Did he tell her his theories?

Even after all these years, I'm left with more questions than answers.

 

[concentric]

I would think someone unfamiliar with the area would be in a rush to get away. They couldn't know how soon someone else might come upon the scene.
------------
Sorry, Mandy to snip your post, but I wanted to isolate this out.

I think someone was very familiar with the area, and yes, they were in a rush to get out of there, but not in a rush to set up an ambush. That is why I have always wondered who on the R family's list of relatives, friends, acquaintances would know that the Rassier parents were away from the property (in Europe) at the time?

 

[Trino]

My theory is the police keeping going back to DR because they have no other place to go. I totally agree that there could have been a car somewhere the terrified boys didn't notice. Or, the perp could have walked J before they got into a car.

Logically, DR is an educated man. Certainly, if he abducted J, he would not have kept him on the property. If DR didn't leave that night, and dogs only traced J's scent minimally onto the property, it seems to me there is a very reasonable possibility that DR is not involved.

As previous said, if the police came to my door at night looking for a lost child, I don't think I would leave my home at night and search. DR chose that path, which has been highly criticized, but IMO that's the job of the police. Who would want to be out at night with LE possibly pointing guns at you? DR has said if LE had searched his house that night, this would all be over.

It also seems that a man cannot live with his parents anymore w/o criticism, which is unfortunate because I have a friend in his fifties who has never left his mother's home. He's not gay. He's social. He just lives with his mom.

My view is Stearns Co Sheriff is ruining DR's life. DR doesn't (and hasn't) had an attorney, yet he's been interviewed several times.

 

[concentric]

I understand your POV, Trino.

For me, there is always the possibility it was someone other than DR that could be the perp. or one of the perps. However, for me, there is always the possibility that DR could be the perp. or one of the perps.

 

[Donjeta]

My view is Stearns Co Sheriff is ruining DR's life. DR doesn't (and hasn't) had an attorney, yet he's been interviewed several times.

Couldn't he get one? I would seriously consider it if my ife was being unfairly ruined and I can't imagine that he hasn't considered it. He's employed and has an income so maybe it's just a choice.

 

[Mandy113]

My question would be what would be LE's motive to pin this crime on DR ? Ok, they want to close the case ... but they don't care if they find Jacob or the truth about what happened to him? If that's true, then I guess I am really very naive in the ways these things play out.

I've been thinking about what led up to the search at the farm this past summer. It's been stated many times new detectives were reviewing the case and came across something which indicated further investigation was needed. Whatever it was, it was enough to get the search warrants. Again ... I'm only speculating ... perhaps they came across something in DR's statements to LE which contradicted another statement he made. Or it just raised some red flags.

I can't see the solution to this problem. Maybe DR has undeservedly lived under a cloud of suspicion for years. No, it's not right or fair. If it was me or my family member, no doubt, I'd be outraged. To my way of thinking though, Jacob & the Wetterling family are the true victims here. I just can't get past that.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Were there ever dogs or a thorough search on his property when Jacob first went missing? Dogs might have found items with his scent on them.

Yes, they brought in a K9 that night; the dog tracked Jacob part of the way up the driveway, a little beyond where Jacob's footprints ended, and then lost the scent.

But IMO if they found Jacob's socks or shoes or some other item owned by him outside on his property it wouldn't IMO do much for the case. It couldn't definitely tie DR into the case because anyone could have dropped it as you say, even years after the crime.

If they had found items that were bones or had a huge amount of Jacob's blood on them it could have proven that he was dead but IMO the lack of proof of his death in Rassier's property says very little about the possibility of Jacob being dead or the hopes of Jacob being alive somewhere else.

It seems unlikely to me that the perp would have stayed on the Rassier property with Jacob to do whatever he planned to do to him unless he had access to a hideout because he must have thought that there would be police and searchers there pretty soon.

I agree that finding items outside the house on the R farm would not absolutely prove anything but their presence would surely make DR look even worse that he already does.

There have been hints over the years that DR thought that there was a car pulled partway up the very long, curved driveway, to a point where it would not have been visible from the road or from the house. There's a fairly dense patch of woods between the road and the house which the driveway skirts.

That seems to me to be such a huge risk, but clearly there was someone willing to take a big risk. Allowing two boys to run meant that the perpetrator was certain he could get away in a very short time before the police arrived.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I keep thinking back to the boys not hearing a car, after Jacob was taken. Though I'm not sure in their terror, they would have been acutely aware of such sounds. I don't know for a fact. I'm sure there must be statistics somewhere on the accuracy of crime victim's statements.

The Innocence Project says that 75% of the cases of the falsely convicted they have exonerated involved mistaken eyewitness testimony:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php

That involves the misidentification of a factually innocent person but it seems to me that it may give some indication of the accuracy of eyewitness testimony in other respects as well.

The two boys were running away for fear of getting shot. I am sure their adrenaline levels were max'd out and, since they were crossing rough ground, they were probably panting or even gasping for breath (panic plus exertion).

I would take their statements to mean that they did not hear a car while they were in hearing range, which was probably for less than a minute.

That makes sense to me. If the perpetrator used a car, he had to get Jacob up the driveway and into it, which would take up some of that time. He'd have to get Jacob into the car and then secure him somehow so Jacob could not escape while the perp was busy driving.

Also, I've seen shots of the driveway from the ground and from the air but I've never been able to see whether it had a slope to it or not. If it did have a downhill slope, the perp could have just let the car roll downhill and away from the house before starting it.

Depending on the car, it might not have taken much of a slope to get it to roll.

I would think someone unfamiliar with the area would be in a rush to get away. They couldn't know how soon someone else might come upon the scene.

I don't know if DR is responsible for anything. As others have pointed out, I could read his statements in different ways. He has been interviewed by LE many, many times. Would they really keep going back to him all these years with nothing? I'm not so sure his keeping news clippings and a journal mentioning the case has any real significance. Simply his proximity to the event may have piqued his interest as much as anything. So I am totally undecided whether DR played a part in any of this.

What I do find most odd though are his statements indicating he had given LE leads which had not been followed up on. Why wouldn't LE follow any tips or leads? If he felt he was not being taken seriously, couldn't he have contacted the Wetterlings himself? He spoke directly with Patty months ago. Did he tell her his theories?

Even after all these years, I'm left with more questions than answers.

I think that "more questions than answers" is true for everyone interested in this case.

I do think one possibility is that LE has followed up his leads or ideas and (obviously) didn't get anywhere with them. There's a current case, the disappearance of Kyron Horman, where LE has a tip line set up but multiple people have indicated they have called in tips without a response. The LE agency involved keeps saying that they do look at every tip and they have followed up on every tip that they could.

Maybe the same thing has happened here, as well. Just because LE didn't report any results back to DR does not mean they didn't act.

On the other hand, Patty Wetterling has said on several occasions that there were significant errors made early in the investigation. So who knows?

More questions than answers, indeed.

 

[GrainneDhu]

My theory is the police keeping going back to DR because they have no other place to go. I totally agree that there could have been a car somewhere the terrified boys didn't notice. Or, the perp could have walked J before they got into a car.

Logically, DR is an educated man. Certainly, if he abducted J, he would not have kept him on the property. If DR didn't leave that night, and dogs only traced J's scent minimally onto the property, it seems to me there is a very reasonable possibility that DR is not involved.

As previous said, if the police came to my door at night looking for a lost child, I don't think I would leave my home at night and search. DR chose that path, which has been highly criticized, but IMO that's the job of the police. Who would want to be out at night with LE possibly pointing guns at you? DR has said if LE had searched his house that night, this would all be over.

Not to mention that the perpetrator was known to be armed. I wouldn't chase an armed criminal around because I'm not trained in how to deal with that risk. LE is trained to deal with that risk and there was manifestly a huge response.

It also seems that a man cannot live with his parents anymore w/o criticism, which is unfortunate because I have a friend in his fifties who has never left his mother's home. He's not gay. He's social. He just lives with his mom.

I had not realised DR was being criticised for living with his parents. I live in a very rural state, in a very rural area. It's pretty normal here for one or more adult children to live with their parents on a farm because it takes a lot of hands to run a farm. DR's parents are now in their 80s and running a 158 acre farm on their own would be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I have to keep reminding myself that 70% of the people in the US live in an urban or suburban area. My view of what is normal is often a little different from people who live in the city because most of the people I discuss things with on the internet don't live on a farm.

My view is Stearns Co Sheriff is ruining DR's life. DR doesn't (and hasn't) had an attorney, yet he's been interviewed several times.

Plus passed a polygraph, plus undergone hypnosis.

I don't put much stock in either test, but LE clearly does. And he's passed those tests.

Patty Wetterling has said that she feels there were significant errors in the investigation. I wonder if they keep going back to DR because they just want to look like they are being thorough.

 

[Mandy113]

The K9 search the night of Jacob's abduction has been mentioned many times. I don't know much about how exactly this works ... I'd be happy for any links or suggestions which would educate me on K9 searches.

What does the dog suddenly losing Jacob's scent at that spot tell us? The only thing I can think of is that he was put in a car and removed from the scene. Are there any other possibilities here? Apparently, LE thinks there's some reason to go back to the farm. The dog losing Jacob's scent so soon is confusing me. Also do we have any idea what was determined about that sock found?

TIA for your help.

 

[Lotus]

I read in an article that the dogs lost the scent because the ground was too dry. As far as there being a car there, I would think there would have been tire tracks left behind (not counting the tracks that kevin left behind) and as far as jacob's footprints disappearing, there appeared to be a struggle, it could have been the perp picking him up off the ground and walking off the driveway into the grass, but where would the perp go from there? it doesn't make any sense. The only place to go would be the farm house, and LE didn't search it that night so DR had plenty of time to do whatever he wanted (if he did it).

 

[Lotus]

I put this together using a couple of still frames of DR and the cold spring perp sketch. I know this doesn't prove anything but it's something to consider, even though 21 years have gone by...

 

[shergal]

Plus passed a polygraph, plus undergone hypnosis.

I don't put much stock in either test, but LE clearly does. And he's passed those tests.

(Snipped by me for this portion.)

Do you have a link stating that DR passed his polygraph? I have never seen that stated - only him stating that he did a polygraph. I don't believe LE has ever said whether he passed or not. This could be why he's still a POI.

Also, on your theory of a car being further up the drive and rolling or driving back down, this isn't possible, because they have photos of Jacob's last footprint facing into DR's property on his road, and it's all alone with only Kevin's (the car that pulled in and turned around) tire prints next to it. No other tire prints coming out of the driveway from further up. You can view this photo here on WS in earlier threads on Jacob.

 

[margaret_diane]

(Snipped for length)

Wow, I don't know, to me, DR is placing himself right on the scene if this is true. (I find it strange this article has never been posted anywhere though, or picked up by any newspapers or blogs.)

"Rassier said he spent a good part of that day jogging on the road past the Delwin Ballroom, where a polka fest was taking place, and on his neighborhood roads, including the one on which Jacob was abducted, just before darkness fell."

So he was out on the road jogging around the area right before dark.

Jogging for the better part of the day? Which part(s) and why!? Was this his normal pattern?

 

[concentric]

If the dog lost the scent because of the dryness of the ground then I don't think the only place to carry him would be the farmhouse. Could the perp. have carried him through the woods to another road?

Didn't the boys say that the man was taking Jacob toward a wooded area?

 

[Trino]

Jogging for the better part of the day? Which part(s) and why!? Was this his normal pattern?

DR was and is a marathon runner.