MN - Jamar Clark, 24, shot by LE, Minneapolis, 15 Nov 2015

[Woodland]

Please lets understand this. The remark made (with no substantive support) that the police officers should be fired for allowing an un-handcuffed man access to their weapons? Really? As someone who has gained law enforcement training in multiple federal and state venues I can tell you that this as a baseless assertion, and downright dangerous. It is this kind of thought that allows people to somehow justify aggressive and unlawful behavior towards authority. Lets just remember that whether we like it or not makes no difference, somebody must be in charge.

It is true that most suspects willingly comply and do not resist arrest. It is also very true that human behavior is vast. Because of this it is impossible to account for every action by an offender in an instant. Officers are human, lest we forget.

Can someone please explain this errant comment?

Rewinding a little to page 7, post #99 which imo is either enlightening of LE thought or part of the problem these days. Not sure.

The post is responding to a citizens thought - unable to see that the word 'dangerous' belongs. Possibly 'dangerous' was meant to be in reference to the action of someone grabbing an officers gun, although that is not stated.

To then say this kind of thought allows people to justify aggressive and unlawful behavior towards authority is well, imo, disjointed. No one is justifying any aggressive behavior towards LE - LE is justifying aggressive behavior towards an uncooperative suspect without back-up so far.

Someone does need to be in charge - when there is a chaotic, unlawful situation at hand - it's who is in charge these days, and how they are carrying out that responsibility that many are leary of.

Officers are human - pretty sure most, if not all people recognize that. People want heroes to look up to - some question if we have that in LE of late.

Trust you will understand. Cheers.

 

[K_Z]

I think that there is an excellent chance that there will be forensic evidence to exonerate the officers. Just as there was in the Michael Brown shooting.

It would be pure folly for a defense attorney and union president to stand up in public and say something so very specific as the officers report that the perp had ahold of the hand grip of the officer's weapon while it was in the holster. Just because WE do not yet have all the evidence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The very unfortunate trend in LE is to NOT publicly support the officers after a shooting, and to NOT release any information, until the whole formal investigation is complete. (And that means the forensics and final tox reports are back.) That is a very distressing trend, IMO, because it allows social media, agitators, and activists to control the narrative at a time when passions are inflamed and peace is precarious. The truth is buried, and the loudest voices repeat their versions of the situation over and over until loads of people believe that version, absent any "substantive evidence". Exactly what happened in Ferguson.

<modsnip>

Remember also that both officers would have been processed for evidence, and drug and alcohol tested as part of post incident management.

What they definitely know, but haven't yet released to the public includes:

- Which officer fired the shot
- Which officer's weapon the perp was holding
- Handprint, fingerprint, and/ or DNA on the officer's weapon
- Ballistics - distance of the shot fired, angle
- Whether the perp was on drugs-- admission toxicology from HCMC, as well as autopsy tox
- Whether either of the officers was positive for drugs or alcohol

And probably a whole lot more I haven't thought of.

ETA: And by the way, there have been NO ARRESTS in the shooting of the 5 year old little boy and the 40 year old. None. Where is the community outrage over THAT? I guess that shootings of children don't matter, only shootings of violent criminals by police officers. It makes me sick. And angry.

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/crime/2015/11/19/2-wounded-by-mpls-gunfire-thursday/76074114/

 

[Always Amazed]

I DO find it unsettling when a law enforcement officer is injured or killed in any way. I grieve for their family and friends. Law enforcement is a tough, dangerous, thankless profession.

I believe the profession could become less dangerous with proper training and updated protocols.

I think some police departments are implementing new procedures and protocols that MPD could follow. I don't know a lot about it but have recently read that Los Angeles, CA has made progress in their community policing. If LA can do it then Minneapolis can do it too. We can't do it without dialogue.

Unfortunate as the Jamar Clark incident is, it can be an opportunity. I think that is what most of the community wants.

LAPD Introducing Mental Health Protocols
http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/2014/03/03/lapd-introducing-mental-health-protocols/

 

[K_Z]

Protesters interrupting this morning's city counsel meeting. More antisocial behavior.

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/2015/11/20/small-protest-opens-mpls-city-council-meeting/76103086/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...yCBrFoXsEQpMT5C5A&sig2=dytBbZ4IioPZlBMxTS8ynA

Video

http://www.kare11.com/media/cinematic/video/76102748/

 

[Always Amazed]

Latest:

NAACP national president meets with Dayton, Hodges; will attend rally
The shooting of Jamar Clark continued to spark nationwide concern and local protests Friday.
By David Chanen, Eric Roper, Beatrice Dupuy and Shannon Prather Star Tribune staff writers NOVEMBER 20, 2015 &#8212; 3:57PM

http://www.startribune.com/naacp-na...polis-rally-over-police-shooting/352243161/#1

 

[Woodland]

Police have said he lunged for an officer&#8217;s gun ...

http://www.startribune.com/naacp-na...polis-rally-over-police-shooting/352243161/#1

Very poor reporting by David Chanen, Eric Roper, Beatrice Dupuy and Shannon Prather of the Star Tribune. Police have not said JC lunged for an officers gun. Tsk tsk on the collective bias and inability to report who has said what. Maybe the Enquirer could make better use of their abilities?

 

[K_Z]

Jamar Clark's troubled life - and death

The troubled past that Jamar Clark struggled for years to escape now hangs over the investigation into his death at the hands of a Minneapolis police officer.

Family members and friends say the 24-year-old was on the right track in the months leading up to the shooting early Sunday. He cared deeply about his parents -- biological and adoptive -- and his 14 siblings, and had a job and hopes of going to college.

But police union representatives point to Clark's criminal history as proof that he was a bad actor, and they contend he was reaching for an officer's gun when he was shot. Beyond the domestic assault call alleging Clark had hurt his girlfriend that brought police to the North Minneapolis neighborhood, he spent three years in and out of prison for a robbery conviction. More recently, he was on probation for threatening to burn down an ex-girlfriend's house after a bitter breakup and was awaiting trial for a July arrest for fleeing police in a high-speed chase.

Tiffany Truitt saw two sides of Clark in the few months last winter that they dated. When things were going well, he was a nurturing, loving man who was drawn to her four children, giving them advice and helping them sell candy for school.

"He was always talking about family. He wanted a family," Truitt said. "He cared about his family being connected with each other. He cared about having somebody care about him."

But when their relationship soured, she saw a man who snapped while gathering his things from her house after the breakup. He threw a brick through Truitt's window and threatened to burn her apartment unit down -- leaving behind a trail of lighter fluid to prove it, according to court documents. Clark pleaded guilty to terroristic threats for the March incident, getting a probation sentence and an order not to contact Truitt.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29146154/jamar-clarks-troubled-life-and-death

I have to note here that if he had not been given such ridiculous leniency in the March terroristic threats incident, he'd likely be in jail, and still alive. (Really??? Probation for THAT?? The dangerous and likely potential that he'd return and kill the ex-GF is hugely worrisome, IMO. He needed jail or prison time for that, IMO.)

I also have to add that it would strain credulity to imagine that his criminal behavior just began "abruptly" at age 19-20. My strong suspicion, based on his behavoir the past 5 years, is that he likely has a very significant juvenile record, in addition to his adult record.

This guy was a powderkeg-- lots of incidents when he just snapped and reverted to very primal and violent behavior. That only reinforces the probability of truth, IMO, in the statements that he was pulling his GF out of the ambulance, fighting physically with officers, and grabbing the officer's gun when they tried to arrest him.

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/lo...-clark-held-at-mpls-police-precinct/76128902/

Thankfully-- very thankfully, the crowd remained peaceful, and off the highways today.

Video of Chief Harteau addressing crowds.

Pictures of 4-5 molotov cocktails (unused- placed in readiness) found by a camera crew today.

 

[K_Z]

Here is the joint statement from the DOJ, and the U.S. Attorney's Office (District of MN), on the release of any video, images, or other evidence to the public, prior to the completion of the investigation. DOJ and the U.S. Attorney back up the decision by the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehansion to NOT release any video until the investigation is complete.

Statement was released yesterday, 11/20/15:

http://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/joint-statement-release-evidence

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friday, November 20, 2015
Joint Statement on the Release of Evidence

Joint Statement from the United States Attorney for the District of Minnesota Andrew M. Luger, Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Vanita Gupta and Special Agent in Charge of the FBI Minneapolis Division Richard T. Thornton:

&#8220;The U.S. Attorney&#8217;s Office for the District of Minnesota, Department of Justice&#8217;s Civil Rights Division and FBI Minneapolis Division are conducting an independent investigation into whether the death of Jamar Clark violated any federal criminal statutes. As is our practice in conducting investigations into allegations of constitutional violations committed under color of law, experienced federal prosecutors and FBI agents are conducting a thorough review of all evidence in this case. That includes interviewing relevant witnesses, reviewing relevant information, and pursuing leads. We are doing so in a manner that ensures the integrity of the investigation and the reliability of the information obtained.

&#8220;Release of any evidence, including any video, during an ongoing investigation would be extremely detrimental to the investigation. We are conducting our investigation in a fair, thorough, and expeditious manner.&#8221;

I'm glad of this-- I think it is absolutely the right thing to do. But it is going to be a painful wait for everyone interested. This is how the process works, and I respect that. I hope everyone else, especially the activist groups, will respect the process, too.

That doesn't mean people won't continue to speculate and opine, but the "demands" and violence, and disruptions, need to stop. FOUR agencies outside of the Minneapolis PD are investigating-- that should be enough for everyone. Have a vigil, have PEACEFUL, respectful gatherings if they wish-- but stop with the violence and disruptions.

 

[K_Z]

Protesters pledge to continue vigil until video released in Jamar Clark's death

An encampment of protesters outside a Minneapolis police station vowed on Saturday to maintain their vigil over the death of an African American man who was shot by police, saying they would not move until video recordings of the encounter were released and authorities changed how they interact with communities they serve.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/21/jamar-clark-police-shooting-protest-vigil-video

Could be weeks-- maybe 2 months till the investigation is complete, and with the holiday season, that could slow things down. Interesting. Let's see how that goes.

I'm glad the officers are on admin leave with pay during this very trying time. I doubt that either one of them will ever be able to go back to work with Minneapolis PD, regardless of the outcome.

 

[Woodland]

This article claims chemical irritants were sprayed by the protesters - no video or pics to back up that claim. Earlier footage of LE spraying a chemical irritant is posted.
The article also claims the police station was spray-painted with Clark's name - no video or pics to back that up. Can't be that hard for media to get pics and video of these claims - since they won't will not believe them until it can be backed up. Jmo.

Rallies since Clark&#8217;s death have been tense at times. Protesters shut down a highway on Monday evening and dozens were arrested. Authorities said protesters threw bottles and rocks on Wednesday night, and each side said the other sprayed a chemical irritant into the crowd. The police station has been spray-painted with Clark&#8217;s name and anti-police profanities.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/21/jamar-clark-police-shooting-protest-vigil-video

This article references JC case -

Jamar Clark, a 24-year-old resident of the city&#8217;s North Side, was shot by a police officer on Sunday morning and was taken off life support on Monday. Bystanders say Clark was in handcuffs when he was shot in the head; police say he was not restrained and was interfering with paramedics. Activists argue releasing the video could help settle the dispute and allow residents to heal.

With what is imo a jaw dropping precedent for compensation to families of US LE shooting victims -

In April, the Chicago city council offered McDonald&#8217;s mother, Tina Hunter, a settlement of $5 million, even though no lawsuit had been filed by the family. Stephen Patton, a city lawyer on the case, conceded at the time that pre-lawsuit settlements were somewhat unusual in police shooting cases but said the choice was consistent with the city&#8217;s goal of resolving cases &#8220;before they generate a lot of fees and expenses and become more difficult to resolve,&#8221; according to the Chicago Sun-Times.

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-police-shooting-video-released-grief-odds-truth-155607200.html

So, each US LE bullet will now have a price tag attached? - no lawsuit required to be filed? Really hope this 'thinking' does not migrate north of the 49th parallel. Would like to think our tax dollars are better spent on communities rather than LE making movies of themselves 'in action'. Problem is, Canadian LE always follow US precedent.

Children are going hungry and their parents sometimes have trouble putting a roof over their heads as well - how is it that such high sums can be made available for police shootings?

 

[K_Z]

There are lots of pictures of the name of Jamar Clark spray painted TWICE on the 4th precinct building. I'll find some and link.

Meanwhile....

Things remained calm at the protester encampment outside the Minneapolis Police Department's 4th precinct building until approximately 3 a.m. Saturday, when rumors of a pending police action on activists prompted one of Jamar Clark's relatives to get on a bullhorn and begin shouting about a police takeover. The rumors also involved a reported sweep of the area to clean up Plymouth Avenue so traffic could get through, so a number of activists took it upon themselves to move fire pits out of the street, sweep the area and pick up garbage to make the encampment neat.

The police sweep never came, but around 5 a.m. city crews showed up with front end loaders and concrete road barricades to restrict and reroute traffic in the area. A KARE 11 photojournalist says a barrier was placed to keep traffic away from a gate to the 4th precinct parking lot. Another was placed to block an alley off Morgan Avenue. The other night a driver was arrested for trying to run an SUV through one of the police parking lot gates.

The arrival of barriers and a bevy of officers to protect those city crews stirred up protesters for a second time, but things quickly calmed and remained that way through the early morning hours.

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/20...ing-interrupts-calm-at-4th-precinct/76166518/

 

[bluesneakers]

You know how so many people say if people don't want to get shot or assaulted by LEOs they should never break the law and always just do everything an officer says to do and never argue?

How about if cops don't want protests maybe they should stop shooting unarmed civilians.

Just a thought.

JMO

 

[Woodland]

If there are so many pics of JC's name spray-painted on the police precinct, can't imagine why they are not posted here already along with videos of protesters spraying chemical irritants.

Pretty sure they aren't available.

 

[K_Z]

These articles have pictures showing the vandalism and spray painting on the 4th Precinct building.

MINNEAPOLIS (KMSP) - Minneapolis police arrested 2 people after they were caught vandalizing the walls of the 4th Precinct overnight. Behind the tents of demonstrators is a wall spray-painted with the name of Jamar Clark, along with profanity directed at Minneapolis police.

http://www.fox9.com/news/51959667-story

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...e-the-protest-encampment-news-photo/498128858

http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/na...side-the-4th-police-nachrichtenfoto/498084186

There are lots more views and images of the graffiti and profanity on the precinct if one wants to spend more time searching.

 

[K_Z]

MINNEAPOLIS - It wasn't violent behavior, like throwing bricks or rocks, but two demonstrators were arrested overnight after police say they spray painted profane graffiti on a wall of the 4th Precinct police building overnight Friday.

Reports are that the men arrested will faces charges of damage to property. Besides profanities, Jamar Clark's name was sprayed on the wall, along with messages like "no justice, no peace."

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/20...ouncil-members-call-for-clark-tapes/76085744/

Here's another view:

http://cdn.tegna-tv.com/-mm-/a47068...gesuite.net/video/76098658/76098658_Still.jpg

I don't think I need to post any more of these.

I posted articles with video and pics of the molotov cocktails upthread, in case anyone wants to see what was planned. News crews found the molotov cocktails placed in readiness by the wall of the precinct. Several were thrown lit the night before.

I don't think there is a vast tinfoil hat conspiracy to defraud the public about things like profane graffiti and molotov cocktails. Chief Harteau brought one of the chunks of concrete that was thrown to a press conference-- I linked that above. Twelve police cars were damaged at over $25K, 2 security cameras destroyed, windows broken, the gate damaged, a retaining wall demolished, along with destruction of landscaping, and piles of trash, etc. This is not a respectful gathering of peaceful people, IMO.

And now the city has had to re-route traffic, and put up concrete barricades, for everyone's safety. Lovely.

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

If there are so many pics of JC's name spray-painted on the police precinct, can't imagine why they are not posted here already along with videos of protesters spraying chemical irritants.

Pretty sure they aren't available.

Here's another good view!



http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3969227.shtml?cat=1

ETA: Sorry K_Z, didn't see your second post but I think the point has been made.

 

[K_Z]

This is clever, and at least it's non-destructive. Projecting images on the police precinct:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...ect-slides-reading-black-news-photo/498128852

<modsnip>

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/...ked-on-the-mayors-door-her-husband-let-us-in/

Fairbanks said a group of about 13 protesters went to Hodges&#8217; home when the situation at the 4th Precinct escalated. She said while the mayor wasn&#8217;t there, her husband, Gary Cunningham, let them in.

He spoke to the protesters for about 10 minutes, in what Fairbanks described as a &#8220;calm exchange.&#8221; Cunningham didn&#8217;t tell protesters where the mayor was, and when asked to contact her, he refused.

When protesters arrived at the home, there were two squad cars outside, Fairbanks said. When they left, there were around nine.

She added that protesters went to the mayor&#8217;s home in hopes of diffusing the situation at the 4th Precinct..

http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-mayor-takes-heat-over-handling-of-clark-shooting/352005461/

 

[Woodland]

Thanks for backing up the graffiti claim with pics.

I like this video in post #114 - there are 2 videos that play back to back at the top of the article. In the second video Kroll states that releasing info now regarding the shooting, which he done, will not taint the investigation. Yet the actual investigators say releasing info now will taint the investigation.

Which is it I wonder?

http://www.fox9.com/news/51959667-story

There is a correction at the bottom of the article - the paper reported shots fired by LE at a vehicle attempting to ram a gate - LE said no that did not happen. Find it so hard to know who to believe with any info released. Maybe that's the point?

 

[K_Z]

My take on that is that Kroll must be quite confident in what the existing video will show, and he isn't afraid for it to be released now. Maybe the officers are very eager to clear their names with evidence, and aren't afraid for their side to reveal what exists.

I'm just fine with waiting for video/ stills until the investigation is complete. I think there will also be forensics, as well as other evidence, just as in the Michael Brown shooting.

The really interesting question is how will the protesters receive the information when it finally comes out?

I also hope the heirs of Jamar Clark are not offered a single penny of "pre-emptive settlement money." That whole process of cities just giving millions of dollars to heirs of suspects who are killed by police, is a complete travesty of justice, IMO. It's just completely wrong, IMO. I know why they do it-- the cities, that is, but it's another example of how the world has gone upside down.

 

[K_Z]

Anti-police graffiti removed in Minneapolis

MINNEAPOLIS -- Workers have painted over anti-police graffiti on a Minneapolis police station where protesters have gathered for days over the death of Jamar Clark.

The graffiti was removed Saturday morning as protesters watched.

The police station had been spray-painted with Clark's name and anti-police profanity.

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/lo...ice-graffiti-removed-in-minneapolis/76198112/

**Notice that now the "protest" is being characterized by reporters as an "occupation." (Video)

The clean up was done not by protesters, but by paid city employees and a volunteer.