MN MN - Joshua Guimond, 20, Collegeville, 9 Nov 2002

[Sasquatch321]

I can try to request it. I have tried requesting information FOIA from a different investigation related to this case and was deferred or denied. I can try again. This is the problem, SAS, Sanner and his staff are not doing their job. Public has to put pressure from all angles.

Go ahead and do that, let us know what happens.You know what, I believe someone knows.

 

[kemo]

Since the Jacob Wetterling case has been resolved, a lot of attention has been given to this case. I was aware of the details but I recently caught the True Crime Garage podcast and now have a better grasp of the questions surrounding this case. I still believe the most likely explanation is that Joshua slipped and fell into one of the bodies of water on campus and has never been recovered but the lax investigation and the distrust of the Catholic Church after the abuse/coverup scandals leave some very glaring questions that may never be answered to the family's satisfaction.

Young men, walking near water, perhaps while impaired, do occasionally fall in. This does happen. Bodies with little body fat generally sink. Eventually gasses generated during decomposition will cause the body to become buoyant and rise to the surface. This process will take more time in cold water conditions. At some point, the decomposition will progress to the point that the gasses will escape and the body will again sink. Currents within the lake can cause the body to drift around. If the lake freezes before the body surfaces, the body may never be found. The lakes are pretty big and I don't think they could have been searched so throughly that the existence of a body could be definitively ruled out.

The fact that at least one of Joshua's friends tampered with his computer is very disturbing. Apparently Adam McDonald "cleaned" some of the file history from the hard drive. He claimed that this was either or some kind of a "fake id creating" site and he didn't want anything embarrassing to Joshua to be found. Was this information verified or did the Sheriff Dept just accept it? Anyone familiar with the Wetterling investigation would not expect the highest level of competence.

Much has been made of the "thesis" that Joshua was working on and the possibility that he had uncovered information about sexual abuse. Realistically, Joshua was a Junior. What sort of investigation would he have been able to conduct? The family has had access to the incomplete paper he was working on. Did they find any evidence that he was privy to the kind of information that could get him killed. It seems like a real stretch.
The Catholic Church destroyed much of its credibility during all of the scandals so I find it reasonable that people would suspect the very worst from the institution, but there still is no evidence.

In the end, it is very possible that no answers will be found. The family may get now closure and a cloud of suspicion will continue to hang over the University.

 

[Jbrown324320]

Hi Kemo,

Yes, people do fall in water, but usually the body or some evidence of the body is found. The lake near where Josh was walking home is not that large, but it empties out to a larger lake on the other side of the "island". The area of the lake where Josh walked home was searched a few times by professional search teams a few months after he went missing.

The family learned of his paper when Josh talked to them about it. They have been unable to find it as it was taken off of the hard drive when all files and emails were deleted after his disappearance. Do they don't know what evidence Josh uncovered or wrote about.

What do you say about the monks who bragged about having relationships with students and the incinerator being used on an off day shortly after Josh went missing?

I hope a cloud hangs above SJU. They have not only hindered Josh's family from searching for their own child, but they have covered up major crimes.

 

[geojeffrey]

Plus, the lake was cleared by the Trident Foundation who used side scan radar to explore the shallow-swamp like lake. They did an extensive search and found nothing...sure it is possible that his body is in the lake, but the probability must be very low after a professional highly credible water search organization cannot find anything...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sasquatch321]

Hi Kemo,

Yes, people do fall in water, but usually the body or some evidence of the body is found. The lake near where Josh was walking home is not that large, but it empties out to a larger lake on the other side of the "island". The area of the lake where Josh walked home was searched a few times by professional search teams a few months after he went missing.

The family learned of his paper when Josh talked to them about it. They have been unable to find it as it was taken off of the hard drive when all files and emails were deleted after his disappearance. Do they don't know what evidence Josh uncovered or wrote about.

What do you say about the monks who bragged about having relationships with students and the incinerator being used on an off day shortly after Josh went missing?

I hope a cloud hangs above SJU. They have not only hindered Josh's family from searching for their own child, but they have covered up major crimes.

The points you bring up definitely require investigation. Is it been done?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Since the Jacob Wetterling case has been resolved, a lot of attention has been given to this case. I was aware of the details but I recently caught the True Crime Garage podcast and now have a better grasp of the questions surrounding this case. I still believe the most likely explanation is that Joshua slipped and fell into one of the bodies of water on campus and has never been recovered but the lax investigation and the distrust of the Catholic Church after the abuse/coverup scandals leave some very glaring questions that may never be answered to the family's satisfaction.

Young men, walking near water, perhaps while impaired, do occasionally fall in. This does happen. Bodies with little body fat generally sink. Eventually gasses generated during decomposition will cause the body to become buoyant and rise to the surface. This process will take more time in cold water conditions. At some point, the decomposition will progress to the point that the gasses will escape and the body will again sink. Currents within the lake can cause the body to drift around. If the lake freezes before the body surfaces, the body may never be found. The lakes are pretty big and I don't think they could have been searched so throughly that the existence of a body could be definitively ruled out.

The fact that at least one of Joshua's friends tampered with his computer is very disturbing. Apparently Adam McDonald "cleaned" some of the file history from the hard drive. He claimed that this was either or some kind of a "fake id creating" site and he didn't want anything embarrassing to Joshua to be found. Was this information verified or did the Sheriff Dept just accept it? Anyone familiar with the Wetterling investigation would not expect the highest level of competence.

Much has been made of the "thesis" that Joshua was working on and the possibility that he had uncovered information about sexual abuse. Realistically, Joshua was a Junior. What sort of investigation would he have been able to conduct? The family has had access to the incomplete paper he was working on. Did they find any evidence that he was privy to the kind of information that could get him killed. It seems like a real stretch.
The Catholic Church destroyed much of its credibility during all of the scandals so I find it reasonable that people would suspect the very worst from the institution, but there still is no evidence.

In the end, it is very possible that no answers will be found. The family may get now closure and a cloud of suspicion will continue to hang over the University.

I wasn't sure if I was the only one siding with LE on the possibility he is in Stumpf lake. So thank you for this post. What we need is another search and this time with mn raised divers, not the trident foundation out of Colorado where there are no lakes.

 

[kemo]

Jbrown,

You seem to be the best source here so I will put this question to you:



According) to Joshua's roommate Nick (did he have more than one ?), Joshua left at 8:30 pm or so to go to the card game. The family's investigation revealed that Josh did swipe his key card to enter his dorm room at 11:05 and he logged off his PC at 11:29. This would change everything if it is correct. It renders the card party irrelevant as well as the fact that he would have walked past Lake Stumpf on his way back. It does however open up other possibilities.

Jbrown, you suggest, in your blog, that Josh could have been abducted from his dorm; very unlikely. Dorm rooms are pretty secure, there are lots of folks out and about on campus Saturday night and Josh was a big enough kid to take care of himself. Far more likely, he went out again an went somewhere else. I recall from my University days that the best parties didn't get going until after midnight. He could have gone anywhere within walking distance and anywhere else with someone who had a car. It is even possible that he went to bed that night and whatever happened, happened the next day.

What did his roommate(s) have to say? Was Nick there or was he out? Did he eventually return that night? If so, he would have known if Josh slept in his bed that night.

 

[Jbrown324320]

Hi Kemo,

Nick was his roommate. In my opinion, he has been the most cooperative with the investigation and with the family. He had 3 roommates total. Nick, Alex and Greg. Nick did see him leave. I am pretty sure Nick said he was somewhere else and didn't get back to the room until 1am. I will check on that.

Kemo, dorms are secure, but when you have monks living in the dorms who have had prior inappropriate relationships with students and are afraid of being found out due to the publicity of the Church sex scandal, anything can happen. There are affidavits of St Johns University student victims where monks supplied them with alcohol in order to molest them. This campus is in the boonies (a small town with nothing but fields and forest on an island). Highly unlikely an intruder would have come on campus because it is difficult to find. Josh had a car, he could have easily left, but he didn't. And the town the college is in is very small. A café maybe and a church. There may be one bar. Any action would be in St Cloud or in Minneapolis. Both kind of far away.

 

[Jbrown324320]

Father Dan Ward was involved with mock trial. Josh was co-captain of SJU mock trial team.
Here are some affidavits against Dan Ward:
http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/the-evidence-against-father-dan-ward/

 

[human]

Hi Kemo,

Nick was his roommate. In my opinion, he has been the most cooperative with the investigation and with the family. He had 3 roommates total. Nick, Alex and Greg. Nick did see him leave. I am pretty sure Nick said he was somewhere else and didn't get back to the room until 1am. I will check on that.

Kemo, dorms are secure, but when you have monks living in the dorms who have had prior inappropriate relationships with students and are afraid of being found out due to the publicity of the Church sex scandal, anything can happen. There are affidavits of St Johns University student victims where monks supplied them with alcohol in order to molest them. This campus is in the boonies (a small town with nothing but fields and forest on an island). Highly unlikely an intruder would have come on campus because it is difficult to find. Josh had a car, he could have easily left, but he didn't. And the town the college is in is very small. A café maybe and a church. There may be one bar. Any action would be in St Cloud or in Minneapolis. Both kind of far away.

So what is the truth? He left the party never to be seen or left the dorm?

When did he leave his things? I forget. Was it glasses? He went to the oarty without glasses? Or he left them in his dorm room after he returned?

 

[Jbrown324320]

Human, we do not know the truth. The family says they have an entry record from the school saying his key card was used. This information makes an assumption that Josh made it back to the dorm (although someone else could have used his key card), sheriff and media says he went missing walking home from the party.

He left his glasses, car, credit card and coat in the dorm when he left for the party. The items remained in his dorm room and his car was not moved.

 

[human]

Human, we do not know the truth. The family says they have an entry record from the school saying his key card was used. This information makes an assumption that Josh made it back to the dorm (although someone else could have used his key card), sheriff and media says he went missing walking home from the party.

He left his glasses, car, credit card and coat in the dorm when he left for the party. The items remained in his dorm room and his car was not moved.

I can see leaving the other items because he does not need them at a party. But glasses? I wonder how bad his eyes were?

I could go nowhere without glasses ( contacts). But other people whose eyes are not as bad as mine can.

What a major discrepancy, How about Joy looks at this one? I would suggest Eloc but not sure if this is on his work route? I wonder if Jeff Anderson the attorney knows anything? There are pieces out there that add up. Someone has to do the work to do it though.

Can't some computer person find what was wiped on the computer?

 

[Sasquatch321]

I can see leaving the other items because he does not need them at a party. But glasses? I wonder how bad his eyes were?

I could go nowhere without glasses ( contacts). But other people whose eyes are not as bad as mine can.

What a major discrepancy, How about Joy looks at this one? I would suggest Eloc but not sure if this is on his work route? I wonder if Jeff Anderson the attorney knows anything? There are pieces out there that add up. Someone has to do the work to do it though.

Can't some computer person find what was wiped on the computer?

Yes if they were deleting , what kind of was it? Were they messing around with pimps and escorts? Were they also deleting evidence of their fake ID ring? What kind of people do you deal with when you run a fake ID ring?

Then just a small thought for today. If Josh was in fact abducted by a monk, how does noone see or hear anything, how is there no trail or struggle left behind?

 

[Jbrown324320]

Human, you don't trust me? I don't think Josh's case is as important as Jacob's. Maybe due to his age.
And if you read this thread or my blog, KMSP hired a forensic computer analyst who told the family what emails and files were deleted. (FOX 9 did this on May 24, 2010). http://www.findjoshua.com/category/all/page/2/

No mention of sas, where is your source for that info? Yes, a fake id program was found to have been deleted. Most likely was used to get underage students into bars.
No one sees or hears anything because of threats they will be expelled or given a bad grade in his class. One student said he couldn't go to mock trial competition in Iowa with him. Ward said if he didn't go, he would get an F in his class.
Dan Ward has submitted such threats to students in these PDF files : http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/the-evidence-against-father-dan-ward/

 

[Sasquatch321]

Human, you don't trust me? I don't think Josh's case is as important as Jacob's. Maybe due to his age.
And if you read this thread or my blog, KMSP hired a forensic computer analyst who told the family what emails and files were deleted.
No mention of sas, where is your source for that info? Yes, a fake id program was found to have been deleted. Most likely was used to get underage students into bars.
No one sees or hears anything because of threats they will be expelled or given a bad grade in his class. One student said he couldn't go to mock trial competition in Iowa with him. Ward said if he didn't go, he would get an F in his class.
Dan Ward has submitted such threats to students in these PDF files : http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/the-evidence-against-father-dan-ward/

Yeah I didn't bring up just for the heck of it-

disturbing. Apparently Adam McDonald "cleaned" some of the file history from the hard drive. He claimed that this was either or some kind of a "fake id creating" site and he didn't want anything embarrassing to Joshua to be found

 

[Jbrown324320]

where is your link to your source sas?

 

[Sasquatch321]

where is your link to your source sas?

Kemo posted the information in one of his posts (#482, page 33). Kemo, where did you copy that information from?

 

[kemo]

Kemo posted the information in one of his posts (#482, page 33). Kemo, where did you copy that information from?

According to Jbrown's blog, it was Adam McDonald who logged into Josh's PC and deleted files from his hard drive using a " scrubber" web site. This was uncovered by the computer expert hired by JOSH's family.

The story that the deleted files were related to the creation of fake id's is repeated in most on line discussion of the case but the only source I can find is that it is attributed to the expert hired by the family. If the hard drive was "scrubbed" how would the expert know what the sites were?

One site I looked at speculated that the deleted sites were really and the "fake id site" was just something someone made up because it would be less embarrassing than . That sounded reasonable to me because fake id's seem so 1950's. I am not aware that college students still use them. In Calif, Drivers Lic or state issued id's are the only acceptable id's to purchase alcohol. They are fairly difficult to produce and the penalties are harsh for possessing one. College Students don't usually take the risk. It may be different in the mid west. I have no idea what the penalties might be for creating them.

The whole business of tampering with the PC of someone who has gone missing under strange circumstances is very troubling. I would hope the Sheriff Dept questioned Adam and anyone else involved and granted immunity for any minor transgressions. If they did not, or if Adam refused to talk to Law Enforcement, I would be concerned something is amiss.

We know that Josh was highly critical of the Church's handling of the sex scandals, but so were most Catholics; that would hardly be a reason to have him " silenced" . There seems to be absolutely no evidence that Josh was privy to any incriminating information or anyone on campus harmed Josh or had a motive to harm Josh.

 

[Jbrown324320]

I hope I didn't add incorrect info to my blog, but I believe the news station found that AM was doing a search on Josh's computer for instructions on how to "whitewash a computer". The site included "covert and overt" ways of doing it. I don't like when facts get distorted like adding that was found on Josh's computer when it wasn't.

 

[dotr]

Did any/many foreign students attend the school?