MN MN - Joshua Guimond, 20, Collegeville, 9 Nov 2002

[Jbrown324320]

November 2002 had very little precipitation, but October had a total of 3.58 inches.

 

[Jbrown324320]

There were reports of a few students seeing him by a dumpster in one of the lots. I am not sure if this story is confirmed or not.

 

[Jbrown324320]

What also hurts this case is that LE is not confirming nor denying if Josh made it back to his dorm or not.

 

[Sasquatch321]

sas, we have had a lot of rain this summer, so we would have a lot of mud. The lake was checked by professionals twice. Does not mean he could not be out there. He could be. The dogs did find his scent by the lake. However, they found his scent at the Abbey where students are prohibited from entering. There is also the citizen who heard the incinerator in use on an off day. Behind the pine curtain does have some stories of monks bringing students in areas where they don't belong.

As far as I am concerned Dog work doesn"t hold much weight anymore. In the Wetterling case we've learned now that dogs hit all over and in the buildings on DR's farm, nothing was ever there. In this case the dogs lead us to the back of the abbey, but they also initially took them to the shore of Stumpf lake, it can't be both.

 

[human]

As far as I am concerned Dog work doesn"t hold much weight anymore. In the Wetterling case we've learned now that dogs hit all over and in the buildings on DR's farm, nothing was ever there. In this case the dogs lead us to the back of the abbey, but they also initially took them to the shore of Stumpf lake, it can't be both.

We don't know what the dogs hit on . We may never know.

 

[Sasquatch321]

The main thing is why is St. John’s above the law and why is the Stearns County Sheriff’s Department letting them be above the law?” he asked, noting that sexual abuse cases involving staff or clergy at St. John’s are not getting the attention they deserve. Brian said he called Stearns County Sheriff John Sanner at the end of September, after having had no contact with his department in more than two years.

He said he was told a new detective has been assigned to the case, which has occurred a number of times over the past 10 years. “It was the same old, same old talk and do nothing,” he said, recalling his first encounter with the sheriff in 2002.

“After Josh went missing, the first thing in the early morning hours, the sheriff, right off the bat, says Josh fell in the water. And he said that with no evidence and no nothing. If that isn’t a red flag, I don’t know what is.”

http://www.immelman.us/news/missing-person-joshua-guimond-tenth-anniversary/

In May of 2010, Fox 9 News aired a story on the background of the case and what a technical expert found in a search of Joshua’s computer hard-drive. The investigation found that two days after Joshua went missing, someone accessed the computer and appeared to forward and delete hundreds of e-mails, using an Internet washer to clean items off the hard-drive. There was also evidence that someone had been using the computer to make fake IDs for other students. And an Internet search Joshua conducted about two weeks before he disappeared focused on sex abuse by some monks at St. John’s.

 

[neesaki]

I spent 4 hours this morning walking the shores of stumpf river. This is no easy task let me tell you, time went by fast because of the struggle it is. Im dirty, I'm scratched, and for awhile quite exhausted. I did find quicksand like mud near the water and at one point my foott even broke false ground into a shallow hole. Now that I've done it and found nothing I can at least feel like I did try pretty good once. Here is a video I took of Stumpf lake and where it drains to the next lake, its dangerous terrain all around-

https://youtu.be/aFdzMFTyXdY

Thank you, glad it was you and not me - gives me visions of a Bigfoot horror film. :scared:

 

[kemo]

During 2002, there was an uproar over past incidents of sexual abuse at St Johns that had been covered up. This was all part of of the greater abuse scandal within the Catholic Church. The university had acknowledged that "errors were made" and this was all " in the past".

In the spring of 2002 however, there was a new allegation of abuse that had occurred that year against a prominent priest at the University who was a Psychology professor. (I'm not sure I should name him but it can easily be found). The priest denied everything, no action was taken, and the issue was never made public.

The following year, new allegations were made against that priest that were taken seriously by the University but he was allowed to complete his classes that term and discreetly accept an early retirement. Nothing was made public. He continued to live in the monastery on campus were he died several years later in a fall some people find suspicious.

While revelations of past abuse were certainly embarrassing to the University, evidence of ongoing abuse and coverups could be disastrous. Were a student in a position to "go public " with evidence of abuse that occurred that year and the University knew of it and failed to act, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that someone might resort to murder.

But, for all of the conspiracy speculation, I am aware of no information that Josh was privy to any damaging information. He was critical of the Church and University's handling of past abuse, but the same could probably be said of most students. From what I can tell, there were articles from the St Cloud paper concerning past abuse on campus but nothing was found concerning anything that was not public record. Of course, who knows what was unrecoverable?

I am aware of no evidence that Josh had ever had any contact with the priest in question, any students that may have been abused, or that he was involved in any "investigation". It is all speculation and conjecture.

Thanks Sasquatch, for the video of Stumpf Lake. It is actually pretty big. I suspect it would had been difficult to search for fresh human remains in the winter and I suspect that 15 year old remains would have long since settled in the sentiments on the lake bottom. A search now may be futile.

I still think there is a real possibility that Josh returned to his room and left again after 11:29 pm. This would mean he could have gone anywhere. Most analysis of the case seems to focus on the card party, there others there, his unannounced departure and his walk back to the dorm. That may all be a red herring.

There is no question that the University had zero credibility when it came to issues of sexual abuse and they were very concerned for their reputation. I can see where the University would see the continuing investigation of Josh's disappearance as a threat even if there was nothing to hide.

 

[Sasquatch321]

During 2002, there was an uproar over past incidents of sexual abuse at St Johns that had been covered up. This was all part of of the greater abuse scandal within the Catholic Church. The university had acknowledged that "errors were made" and this was all " in the past".

In the spring of 2002 however, there was a new allegation of abuse that had occurred that year against a prominent priest at the University who was a Psychology professor. (I'm not sure I should name him but it can easily be found). The priest denied everything, no action was taken, and the issue was never made public.

The following year, new allegations were made against that priest that were taken seriously by the University but he was allowed to complete his classes that term and discreetly accept an early retirement. Nothing was made public. He continued to live in the monastery on campus were he died several years later in a fall some people find suspicious.

While revelations of past abuse were certainly embarrassing to the University, evidence of ongoing abuse and coverups could be disastrous. Were a student in a position to "go public " with evidence of abuse that occurred that year and the University knew of it and failed to act, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that someone might resort to murder.

But, for all of the conspiracy speculation, I am aware of no information that Josh was privy to any damaging information. He was critical of the Church and University's handling of past abuse, but the same could probably be said of most students. From what I can tell, there were articles from the St Cloud paper concerning past abuse on campus but nothing was found concerning anything that was not public record. Of course, who knows what was unrecoverable?

I am aware of no evidence that Josh had ever had any contact with the priest in question, any students that may have been abused, or that he was involved in any "investigation". It is all speculation and conjecture.

Thanks Sasquatch, for the video of Stumpf Lake. It is actually pretty big. I suspect it would had been difficult to search for fresh human remains in the winter and I suspect that 15 year old remains would have long since settled in the sentiments on the lake bottom. A search now may be futile.

I still think there is a real possibility that Josh returned to his room and left again after 11:29 pm. This would mean he could have gone anywhere. Most analysis of the case seems to focus on the card party, there others there, his unannounced departure and his walk back to the dorm. That may all be a red herring.

There is no question that the University had zero credibility when it came to issues of sexual abuse and they were very concerned for their reputation. I can see where the University would see the continuing investigation of Josh's disappearance as a threat even if there was nothing to hide.

In the unfortunate event that Josh's remains are sunken into mud, does the fact he was wearing a wrist watch glean any hope of capturing a signal or washing up on shore one day?

 

[Jbrown324320]

Josh's body could not have fully sunken into the mud. He could be in the lake stuck under debris, but the family would have found at least a shoe, his sweatshirt or some evidence that would have washed up or floated to the surface. I am leaning towards the incinerator. The monks in charge of the incinerator have had several abuse allegations against them. One admitted to abusing over 200 victims here and overseas!

 

[human]

Bodies fill with gas and float up. Parts break off and float up.

Why would he go down by the water?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Josh's body could not have fully sunken into the mud. He could be in the lake stuck under debris, but the family would have found at least a shoe, his sweatshirt or some evidence that would have washed up or floated to the surface. I am leaning towards the incinerator. The monks in charge of the incinerator have had several abuse allegations against them. One admitted to abusing over 200 victims here and overseas!

If this is the case I can't imagine we wouldn't have the ability to find out who could have done that.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Bodies fill with gas and float up. Parts break off and float up.

Why would he go down by the water?

He would go down to the water to either go to the bathroom or possibly catch a break from a cold wind since he had no coat on.

 

[human]

He would go down to the water to either go to the bathroom or possibly catch a break from a cold wind since he had no coat on.

No bathroom at the party? He could not make the four min walk to his room?

 

[Sasquatch321]

No bathroom at the party? He could not make the four min walk to his room?

When you are drinking you may have to go to the bathroom at the apartment and again ten minutes later. That is just the way it is.

 

[human]

When you are drinking you may have to go to the bathroom at the apartment and again ten minutes later. That is just the way it is.

He could do a bush or whatever else guys do. I should have been more clear. The idea of getting out of the cold by the river. He could make it home in a few mins

 

[dotr]

What kind of card game was it, did it involve money, a drinking game, or strip poker?
Any of those 3 could result in trouble, imo.
speculation.

 

[Jbrown324320]

dotr, my research says it was a poker game with some drinking. unknown if money was involved.
Bathroom- there was a bathroom in the apartment where he attended the card party. some attendees say they thought he was going to the bathroom but he left. I am not sure how that could be unless the bathroom is right next to the door in the apartment. And I doubt Josh tried to urinate in the lake, but anything is possible I guess. It seems where he was walking (across the lot, across the bridge, etc) was wide open so anyone in the dorms/apartments could see.

 

[Jbrown324320]

sas, did you film the part of the lake where Josh would have been walking? By the apartments and the bridge? I didn't watch the whole thng

 

[kemo]

There is a pattern out there of inebriated young men who are walking home at night, finding themselves in bodies of water. This occurred so frequently in the upper mid-West in the 2000's that there was speculation some serial killer, or even a gang of SK's was out there pushing young men into rivers. That was all pretty far fetched but it is strange that it happens so often.

Anyone who has been drinking will have to relieve themselves occasionally and the bank of a river or lake would be as good a spot as any. River and lake banks can be slippery and if it is dark they can be quite treacherous, particularly if you are intoxicated. This is as reasonable explanation as any. The bodies do usually turn up however.

From what I have read, it is very hard to predict if bodies of drowning victims will ever be recovered. A human body is naturally buoyant only if it has a high enough ratio of fat to muscle mass (with bone density also being a factor). Women, tending to have more body fat, are more likely to float. Josh appears to have been rather slender so he probably would not be naturally buoyant.

All bodies will float once they expand with the gasses that result from decomposition but, for various reasons, that doesn't always happen. Most clothing is also not buoyant but it will float as long as air bubbles cling to it. It is certainly well within the realm of possibility that fully clothed body would never surface.

I have scuba dived in lakes. Very often there is a layer of sentiment at the bottom. It tends to be very soft and anything that sinks to the bottom is very quickly buried in muck and would be difficult or impossible to find. If that is what happened to Josh, after 15 years, it is unlikely he will be found.

But, we don't KNOW that is what happened. With the nefarious going ons around campus concerning sexual abuse and the coverups of that abuse, there are going to be suspicions that Josh's disappearance is somehow related. Still, by far, the most probable explanation is an accidental fall into a body of water.