MN - Justine Damond, 40, fatally shot by Minneapolis LE, 15 July 2017 #3

  • #521
No, that is incorrect and misleading. he got 20 years on federal charges including violation of Scott's civil rights and obstruction of justice.

The murder/shooting trial ended in a mistrial. The murder and shooting charges were later dropped.
How is that misleading? He was indicted on 2nd degree murder. It went to trial and a mistrial was declared. Before the retrial, he was charged with federal civil rights charges. As part of a plea agreement to that, the state charges were dismissed. Slager got 20 years.
 
  • #522
How is that misleading? He was indicted on 2nd degree murder. It went to trial and a mistrial was declared. Before the retrial, he was charged with federal civil rights charges. As part of a plea agreement to that, the state charges were dismissed. Slager got 20 years.
He got 20 years but not for murder or homicide. Those charges were dropped.
So no. he did not get 20 years for murder.
Charges matter, Words have meanings.
 
  • #523
He got 20 years but not for murder or homicide. Those charges were dropped.
So no. he did not get 20 years for murder.
Charges matter, Words have meanings.
The federal judge found that the underlying offense was 2nd Degree Murder.
 
  • #524
The federal judge found that the underlying offense was 2nd Degree Murder.
Lets agree to disagree on the documented and easily proven dropping of the murder charges.
 
  • #525
Is Officer Harrity back on patrol? I don't know if I ever heard.

He was wearing his police uniform when he testified so he still works for MPD.

I'm guessing this statement by him when testifying had a big impact on the jury during their deliberations:

When the prosecution pressed Harrity on why he didn’t raise his gun after being startled by the thump, he said he was taught you can’t shoot at something before you’ve identified a threat and a target. In this case, he said he had not analyzed the threat before Noor shot Ruszczyk Damond and to deadly force at that point would have been premature.

Noor’s Partner, Officer Matthew Harrity, Describes Night Justine Ruszczyk Damond Was Fatally Shot
 
  • #526
Shooting someone when there is no reason to? Yes that happens ALOT and the cops usually dont get punished. Well seems in only very specific cases apparently. Easily google-able.
I specifically said when there is no interaction before the shooting. Easily google-able and there's nothing there.

'When there is no reason to', is clearly a matter of opinion, and debating every other police shooting will derail the conversation about THIS shooting.
 
  • #527
I specifically said when there is no interaction before the shooting. Easily google-able and there's nothing there.

'When there is no reason to', is clearly a matter of opinion, and debating every other police shooting will derail the conversation about THIS shooting.
You clearly did not read any of the examples I posted. Because if you did , you'd see most if not all, were shot and killed by police arriving on the scene with no interaction before.
 
  • #528
Let's agree that body cams and dash cams can put much to rest and that each and every case is different. One of the cases cited above resulted in body cams, was it in Milwaukee I think?

This case here had a unanimous jury of 12.

I am guessing the one with a mistrial mentioned above meant a hung jury?

There definitely are those in blue that stick together, there definitely are politics and there definitely is racism. With some, definitely not with all.

On the flip side so are there women who cry rape when false, making it harder on those that truly are raped not being believed; so are there criminals who cry police brutality because it is so quickly believed when in fact there was none, making it harder for those who truly may be victims of it; so are there politicians who care less about a community of immigrants but want their voting block and act as if they care.

I myself hate a broad brush on any "group".

This case was tried, all of the missteps, possible corruption, etc. was brought out in transparency as were the facts and experts. The jury looked at the case and the facts. They did not find him guilty of 2nd degree murder did they? They chose the result that fit what they heard and found to be fact. All 12 agreed.

I do not even doubt Officer Noor just reacted and was scared over anything easily and maybe even jumped like a rabbit over the smallest of things--shoot first. Even that though cannot go on and it also means he is not fit for police duty.

Let's just go with very basics--911 is called by a woman about another woman she hears that she thinks may be under attack by a man--a woman in pajamas approaches the car...? I am just going here with basics but my first guess would be it would be the victim being assaulted looking for help or the female caller...

Have there been cases of no justice and powers that be that have perhaps controlled whether there are charges? I do not doubt it but I do doubt it is as common as some portray. Yet are there criminals who cry wolf and police brutality when there was none? No doubt.

It should be on a case by case basis on the facts. This one was imo. They all should be.

A very recent case a one year old died in a car fire. The perp/daddy claimed he did not know the car was on fire or would never have fled and left his child, no way, no how. Of course this was already after having the one year old in the car with a major amount of drugs for sale (not the first time), failing to stop for LE, speeding 60 something in a 45 with a child in the car, then taking them on a chase and continuing to fail to stop, throwing the drugs out the window during the chase, the car having sparks he acknowledged, then car parts started falling off which are on fire, he then pulled over and then took off again going around a police car WHILE engulfed in flames and eventually stopped and bailed out of the passenger side away from police to save his own arse and flee and left his daughter to die.

Doubt was cast by he and his family on LE with him saying he never knew the car was on fire. Dash cam proves otherwise. To give the family credit, once they saw it, they realize he lied to them and the police are not in question.

Cases should be charged and decided on the merits and evidence. Are they always charged depending on who is involved? I am sure there have been times maybe not but we are in a day of internet, sharing and major video evidence in some cases.

To me, this is where to stand up and say the questions can stop with body cams, dash cams, etc. If for some reason they are shut off or stop functioning conveniently only at certain times (I have heard of that), then there should be questions.

People on either side of the aisle or in the middle if they mean it and feel strongly about their position should be happy to endorse body cam and dash cam being used because it will put to rest the questions in many cases of what the truth may be when there are opposing accounts.

In my humble opinion with all of the above. I have not said much on this case and will go back to just reading :)
 
  • #529
I specifically said when there is no interaction before the shooting. Easily google-able and there's nothing there.

'When there is no reason to', is clearly a matter of opinion, and debating every other police shooting will derail the conversation about THIS shooting.

Thats laughably wrong. Precedent counts and is important in our legal system.
I get a feeling theres a very specific reason you dont want to talk the others. But I must apologize if this offends, but I think the other victims of police shootings who are not like this woman, their lives matter too.
 
  • #530
You clearly did not read any of the examples I posted. Because if you did , you'd see most if not all, were shot and killed by police arriving on the scene with no interaction before.
I read a few of them and noticed you cherry picked the information from Wiki---so didn't read the rest. I got the flavor of what you were doing.
 
  • #531
Let's agree that body cams and dash cams can put much to rest and that each and every case is different. One of the cases cited above resulted in body cams, was it in Milwaukee I think?

This case here had a unanimous jury of 12.

I am guessing the one with a mistrial mentioned above meant a hung jury?

There definitely are those in blue that stick together, there definitely are politics and there definitely is racism. With some, definitely not with all.

On the flip side so are there women who cry rape when false, making it harder on those that truly are raped not being believed; so are there criminals who cry police brutality because it is so quickly believed when in fact there was none, making it harder for those who truly may be victims of it; so are there politicians who care less about a community of immigrants but want their voting block and act as if they care.

I myself hate a broad brush on any "group".

This case was tried, all of the missteps, possible corruption, etc. was brought out in transparency as were the facts and experts. The jury looked at the case and the facts. They did not find him guilty of 2nd degree murder did they? They chose the result that fit what they heard and found to be fact. All 12 agreed.

I do not even doubt Officer Noor just reacted and was scared over anything easily and maybe even jumped like a rabbit over the smallest of things--shoot first. Even that though cannot go on and it also means he is not fit for police duty.

Let's just go with very basics--911 is called by a woman about another woman she hears that she thinks may be under attack by a man--a woman in pajamas approaches the car...? I am just going here with basics but my first guess would be it would be the victim being assaulted looking for help or the female caller...

Have there been cases of no justice and powers that be that have perhaps controlled whether there are charges? I do not doubt it but I do doubt it is as common as some portray. Yet are there criminals who cry wolf and police brutality when there was none? No doubt.

It should be on a case by case basis on the facts. This one was imo. They all should be.

A very recent case a one year old died in a car fire. The perp/daddy claimed he did not know the car was on fire or would never have fled and left his child, no way, no how. Of course this was already after having the one year old in the car with a major amount of drugs for sale (not the first time), failing to stop for LE, speeding 60 something in a 45 with a child in the car, then taking them on a chase and continuing to fail to stop, throwing the drugs out the window during the chase, the car having sparks he acknowledged, then car parts started falling off which are on fire, he then pulled over and then took off again going around a police car WHILE engulfed in flames and eventually stopped and bailed out of the passenger side away from police to save his own arse and flee and left his daughter to die.

Doubt was cast by he and his family on LE with him saying he never knew the car was on fire. Dash cam proves otherwise. To give the family credit, once they saw it, they realize he lied to them and the police are not in question.

Cases should be charged and decided on the merits and evidence. Are they always charged depending on who is involved? I am sure there have been times maybe not but we are in a day of internet, sharing and major video evidence in some cases.

To me, this is where to stand up and say the questions can stop with body cams, dash cams, etc. If for some reason they are shut off or stop functioning conveniently only at certain times (I have heard of that), then there should be questions.

People on either side of the aisle or in the middle if they mean it and feel strongly about their position should be happy to endorse body cam and dash cam being used because it will put to rest the questions in many cases of what the truth may be when there are opposing accounts.

In my humble opinion with all of the above. I have not said much on this case and will go back to just reading :)

BBM.
Thats is a bad comparison. Apples and oranges.
Also there is approximately only 2% of rape accusations to be false (MAAN » Myths about false accusation). The worst thing to happen to people who want their rape accusation seriously is comments like the bolded which give the false impression that alot of women are faking rapes. Believe victims, dont spread false declarations like that. It hurts victims.

Police brutality has been proven to be a serious epidemic that plagues specific demographics at alarming levels. There has been many many studies. Again proclaiming that "false brutality" claims are prevalent leads to people not believing that it exists at disturbing levels. That hurts alot of people because it's just plain false. It makes people stereotype victims and keep the necessary changes from happening.

All my opinion
 
  • #532
Thats laughably wrong. Precedent counts and is important in our legal system.
I get a feeling theres a very specific reason you dont want to talk the others. But I must apologize if this offends, but I think the other victims of police shootings who are not like this woman, their lives matter too.
If you can't give a similar example, and you thus far have not, maybe it's time to move on.
If you prefer to continue to derail the thread with your snarky comments, that's on you. Carry on.
 
  • #533
He was wearing his police uniform when he testified so he still works for MPD.

I'm guessing this statement by him when testifying had a big impact on the jury during their deliberations:

When the prosecution pressed Harrity on why he didn’t raise his gun after being startled by the thump, he said he was taught you can’t shoot at something before you’ve identified a threat and a target. In this case, he said he had not analyzed the threat before Noor shot Ruszczyk Damond and to deadly force at that point would have been premature.

Noor’s Partner, Officer Matthew Harrity, Describes Night Justine Ruszczyk Damond Was Fatally Shot

I would agree that this statement was probably a major point and imo it goes to the crux of this case. If LE officers reacted to anything that startled them, we would have deaths every time they heard something, thunder, a branch falling, a cat meowing, a child crying or the radio crackled, etc.

jmo of course.
 
  • #534
You only stated one side of the situation and you know it. I'm done discussing this with you since it's fruitless.

What about these invalidates them. I think I know your reason, but id like to hear your explanation on why these are not similar

Jemel was shot and killed by a cop pulling up to the scene.
Jonathan was shot as he approached a cop car after a car crash
John was shot for shopping in a walmart

Jemel Roberson
Shooting of Jemel Roberson - Wikipedia
On November 11, 2018, Jemel Roberson, a 26-year-old African-American security guard for Manny's Blue Room Bar in Robbins, Illinois was fatally shot by Ian Covey, a police officer responding to a call of shots fired at the bar. Robinson was working for the bar and was legally armed as a security guard when four people were non-fatally shot by a gunman. After Roberson subdued and pinned the shooter to the ground, he was shot by a Midlothian police officer arriving at the scene.
COP - No charges

Shooting of Jonathan Ferrell - Wikipedia
On September 14, 2013, Jonathan Ferrell, a 24-year-old former college football player for the Florida A&M University Rattlers, was shot and killed by police officer Randall "Wes" Kerrick Ferrell was unarmed at the time he was shot. He crashed his car, went to a house in the Bradfield Farms neighborhood and "banged on the door", The resident Sarah McCartney called the police, and three officers came.Ferrell then ran towards them, whereupon one of the officers fired a taser at Ferrell and missed. Kerrick then opened fire on Ferrell, shooting him twelve times and killing him.
COP - Mistrial - not re-trying


John Crawford lll
Shooting of John Crawford III - Wikipedia
Crawford picked up an un-packaged BB/pellet air rifle inside the store's sporting goods section and continued shopping in the store. Another customer, Ronald Ritchie, called 911. According to Ritchie at the time, Crawford was pointing the gun at people and at children walking by, and messing with the gun. Security camera footage showed that Crawford was talking on his cellphone and holding the B.B. gun as he shopped, but at no point did he aim the B.B. gun at anyone. After the security camera footage was released, Ritchie recanted his statement that led to the fatal shooting and stated, "At no point did he shoulder the rifle and point it at somebody", while maintaining that Crawford was "waving it around". Two officers of the Beavercreek Police arrived at the Walmart shortly after their dispatcher informed them of a "subject with a gun" in the pet supplies area of the store. Sean Williams, one of the two police officers that arrived, shot Crawford in the arm and chest. He was later pronounced dead at Dayton's Miami Valley Hospital.
COPS - No charges

None guilty for the SAME thing this cop did in this case. Whats different? hmm
 
  • #535
You gave NONE that had no prior interaction. Do you understand what 'prior interaction' means? Google it.
Yes I do and those above had no prior interaction. Do YOU know what that means?
 
  • #536
BBM.
Thats is a bad comparison. Apples and oranges.
Also there is approximately only 2% of rape accusations to be false (MAAN » Myths about false accusation). The worst thing to happen to people who want their rape accusation seriously is comments like the bolded which give the false impression that alot of women are faking rapes. Believe victims, dont spread false declarations like that. It hurts victims.

Police brutality has been proven to be a serious epidemic that plagues specific demographics at alarming levels. There has been many many studies. Again proclaiming that "false brutality" claims are prevalent leads to people not believing that it exists at disturbing levels. That hurts alot of people because it's just plain false. It makes people stereotype victims and keep the necessary changes from happening.

All my opinion

I also am done after this post. I am not going to engage in derailing this.

You are welcome to your opinion, I always feel that way when others do not and agree to disagree. I even went so far as to say it does happen, has happened and you still cannot agree with even that much or so it seems.

First you cite Wiki only. Some of the cases were tried. They go back many years picking one here and one there in crimes numbering far more than picking one in 2013 here and then another here imo. You are comparing apples and oranges as each case is entirely different, as are the facts, the people involved and the circumstances.

In this case, the minority? (I don't think in those terms but some do always and personally I think an Australian American is probably as much of a minority or more so) police officer was backed up and supported by the department, mayor and more. How does this compare to the cases you cited? It is not the same whatsoever. Not even apples and oranges, it is more like apples and onions :)

Have a great day. I agree with the verdict based on the case presented and the facts they had. It was also refreshing to see a case tried despite the opposition from powers that be.

All just my opinion of course. I see all cases and facts separately. Generalizing is discrimination imo.
 
  • #537
I also am done after this post. I am not going to engage in derailing this.

You are welcome to your opinion, I always feel that way when others do not and agree to disagree. I even went so far as to say it does happen, has happened and you still cannot agree with even that much or so it seems.

First you cite Wiki only. Some of the cases were tried. They go back many years picking one here and one there in crimes numbering far more than picking one in 2013 here and then another here imo. You are comparing apples and oranges as each case is entirely different, as are the facts, the people involved and the circumstances.

In this case, the minority? (I don't think in those terms but some do always and personally I think an Australian American is probably as much of a minority or more so) police officer was backed up and supported by the department, mayor and more. How does this compare to the cases you cited? It is not the same whatsoever. Not even apples and oranges, it is more like apples and onions :)

Have a great day. I agree with the verdict based on the case presented and the facts they had. It was also refreshing to see a case tried despite the opposition from powers that be.

All just my opinion of course. I see all cases and facts separately. Generalizing is discrimination imo.

We all need to confront the truth.

And sorry but bashing rape victims, exaggerating fake claims, and dismissing precedent when it comes to police homicide only hurts people.

Theres a reason this case has so much interest and how easy it was to find the LE guilty. Its not the same in others.

Oh and BTW Wiki pedia sites it's sources at the bottom, its a helpful way to compile actual sources. I assume you didnt know that
 
  • #538
  • #539
He was wearing his police uniform when he testified so he still works for MPD.

I'm guessing this statement by him when testifying had a big impact on the jury during their deliberations:

When the prosecution pressed Harrity on why he didn’t raise his gun after being startled by the thump, he said he was taught you can’t shoot at something before you’ve identified a threat and a target. In this case, he said he had not analyzed the threat before Noor shot Ruszczyk Damond and to deadly force at that point would have been premature.

Noor’s Partner, Officer Matthew Harrity, Describes Night Justine Ruszczyk Damond Was Fatally Shot
I agree. Harrity's testimony was devastating to Noor. Noor claimed that they were afraid, anticipating ambush, saw terror in Harrity's eyes. But Harrity, while acknowleging there was concern of ambush, didn't back that up. Despite less experience, Harrity maintained control. If the two were as scared as Noor claimed, they should not have proceeded up the alley, but waited for backup or proceeded to contact the 911 caller for more information. Harrity wasn't panicked. But for some reason Noor was and literally just shot the first thing he saw move.
 
  • #540
I would agree that this statement was probably a major point and imo it goes to the crux of this case. If LE officers reacted to anything that startled them, we would have deaths every time they heard something, thunder, a branch falling, a cat meowing, a child crying or the radio crackled, etc.

jmo of course.
Years ago someone broke into my house and fled out a window when I came across him. I called the police and when an officer arrived, I opened the door when he pulled into the driveway to go speak with him. My 120 lb German Shepherd got out and went straight for the cop since he was a stranger on my property and he did not like strangers on the property. I froze to the point I couldn't even call the dog back as I was picturing in my mind the cop drawing his gun and shooting my dog. It all happened so fast!! Luckily, the cop didn't even draw his gun. He slowly extended his hand and told the dog he was a good boy when the dog got to him, and he let the dog sniff his hand. Whew! I unfroze myself and called the dog back. These are the kind of people who should be cops. Not people who startle and panic easily, so they pull their guns and start shooting because they can.
 

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