GUILTY MO - Bobbi Jo Stinnett, 23, slain, fetus stolen, Skidmore, 16 Dec 2004

  • #241
Interview with the ex:


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/10517491.htm

Boman, 43, said Montgomery had "got to the point where she did not want to be proven wrong because she would have been proven wrong in front of her husband and his family and the whole community. she did this to protect her own self."
 
  • #242
raisincharlie said:
Interview with the ex:


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/10517491.htm

Boman, 43, said Montgomery had "got to the point where she did not want to be proven wrong because she would have been proven wrong in front of her husband and his family and the whole community. she did this to protect her own self."


He sounds like a good person who has been through an awful lot with Lisa. I'm glad he has custody of the children...I wonder where the youngest is living? I guess with a relative. I'm glad he is expressing sympathy and thoughts for the Stinnetts. It has to just be horrendous all the way around. I feel for those kids b/c it will not be easy for them, living with what their mom did and the consequences they will all face because of it. Those kids will eventually have to deal with their mom receiving a life sentence or the death penalty. Just too sad. One awful, awful, selfish, cruel act has ruined so many lives.
 
  • #243
  • #244
  • #245
englishleigh said:
Great, I guess Moonbat and her attorneys will decide to say she was insane and hearing voices telling her that Bobbie Stinnett had stolen "her" baby!!!! Hope the jury sees right through that one!!!
Moonbat ! ROFLMAO !

Here's the legal definition:

[size=+2]The 'Lectric Law Library's Lexicon On[/size]
[size=+4]* Insanity Defense *[/size]
line7blu.gif
DEFENSE, INSANITY - A criminal defense asserting that at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate the nature and quality or the wrongfulness of his acts. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense. U.S.C. 18

A person is insane, and is not responsible for criminal conduct if, at the time of such conduct, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, he was unable to appreciate the nature and quality or the wrongfulness of his acts. This is because willfull intent is an essential part of most offenses; and a person who is insane is not capable of forming such intent. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense; the person has the burden of proving the defense of insanity by clear and convincing evidence.



I have an idea that if this goes to court it will be under an insanity defense, no argument in other other direction is open. Unfortunately her sanity is exactly what Carl Boman was going to argue in his custody issues so there is perhaps a shade of something there that can be used to her defense. Honestly, unless her defense can get around the above (I doubt it) she doesn't have a chance. Also, if this goes to court under this premise I strongly believe the US Attorney will seek the DP. She's not insane IMO and I don't think there is anyway she can beat the above definition. I don't think she is insane in any way, shape or form, maybe a tad pshycotic (sp) but not insane. The only voice she was hearing was her own.
 
  • #246
She definitely had willful intent. The most damaging thing against her as far as proof that this crime was premeditated is that she told the people on the rat terrier message board, AFTER Bobbie had announced that she was pregnant and due in mid-January, was that HER due date, Lisa's, was none other than DECEMBER 16TH. This was months ago!! And she told her pastor and people in the community that she was due to have an induced labor on DECEMBER 16TH. She knew months in advance that she was going to kill Bobbie Jo Stinnett and take her baby on that date. Although in that article with the interview with Carl Boman, he thinks she did what she did in response to him filing for custody of the children, and she knew she had 6 days to produce a baby so that he could not say in court that she had lied again about being pregnant.....that may have been part of it, but the evil moonbat had been planning for months to take BJS's baby and do away with BJS....Lisa is toast, IMO.

Today is her bail hearing...surely there is NO chance she'll get bail??? Or hopefully it will be some ridiculous amount that the family cannot afford. This hag cannot ever see the light of day again.
 
  • #247
englishleigh said:
She definitely had willful intent. The most damaging thing against her as far as proof that this crime was premeditated is that she told the people on the rat terrier message board, AFTER Bobbie had announced that she was pregnant and due in mid-January, was that HER due date, Lisa's, was none other than DECEMBER 16TH. This was months ago!! And she told her pastor and people in the community that she was due to have an induced labor on DECEMBER 16TH. She knew months in advance that she was going to kill Bobbie Jo Stinnett and take her baby on that date. Although in that article with the interview with Carl Boman, he thinks she did what she did in response to him filing for custody of the children, and she knew she had 6 days to produce a baby so that he could not say in court that she had lied again about being pregnant.....that may have been part of it, but the evil moonbat had been planning for months to take BJS's baby and do away with BJS....Lisa is toast, IMO.

Today is her bail hearing...surely there is NO chance she'll get bail??? Or hopefully it will be some ridiculous amount that the family cannot afford. This hag cannot ever see the light of day again.
No way will she (moonbat - love it) get bail ! She will see the light of day but she will never walk freely in it again - at least that's my prediction. And I agree - the willful intent will never be refuted - she planned it, she meant it, she knew it was wrong and she still did it.
 
  • #248
raisincharlie said:
No way will she (moonbat - love it) get bail ! She will see the light of day but she will never walk freely in it again - at least that's my prediction. And I agree - the willful intent will never be refuted - she planned it, she meant it, she knew it was wrong and she still did it.


Thanks...it fits her!! And I'm glad that you don't think she will get bail...I think she is likely a flight risk and/or a suicide risk, as well. I hope they are watching her in her cell closely and have taken anything she might use to kill herself. I want the government to kill her after she's been tried and found guilty....the Stinnetts deserve justice for their beloved Bobbie.
 
  • #249
englishleigh said:
Thanks...it fits her!! And I'm glad that you don't think she will get bail...I think she is likely a flight risk and/or a suicide risk, as well. I hope they are watching her in her cell closely and have taken anything she might use to kill herself. I want the government to kill her after she's been tried and found guilty....the Stinnetts deserve justice for their beloved Bobbie.
The US Attorney has fought the bail option from her very first appearance in KS - he won't back down now. It is terribly obvious the woman is a danger and as you say a likely flight risk - who the heck would be willing to have her in their house ever again, no matter how well they knew her ? No way will she be out on bail - she's gonna be keeping herself occupied at Leavenworth for quite a while.

My take - if it goes to trial, she will without doubt be found guilty and not by insanity but there will be no death penalty awarded - lots of aggravating circumstances but there is wheelbarrow full of mitigating if what I've read to this point is accurate (who knows). Of course she could just plead guilty and take life instead of gambling on it.
 
  • #250
Lisa Montgomery has been held over without bond. She waived her right to a preliminary hearing. She remains in custody at Leavenworth. A grand jury will now hear the case to determine whether to issue an indictment possibly late in January 2005.
 
  • #251
raisincharlie said:
Lisa Montgomery has been held over without bond. She waived her right to a preliminary hearing. She remains in custody at Leavenworth. A grand jury will now hear the case to determine whether to issue an indictment possibly late in January 2005.

Thanks for the update, Charlie. I guess nothing else now until the indictment is handed down. I now hope she will plead guilty in exchange for LWOP in Leavenworth. But meanwhile, Bobbie Stinnett is still dead. I can't help but think that every time something is on the news about court proceedings in cases like this. CMISP will be on death row...meanwhile, Laci and Conner are still dead. They've arrested that sick perv who killed the little girl on Christmas Eve in Indiana....meanwhile, Christina Tedder is still dead. There is nothing that can ever make up for the fact that these animals killed innocent people, and those innocents can never be brought back. It's absolutely heartbreaking. This story has just really gutted me....such a sweet, angelic young lady, looking forward to being a mother, who loved animals and never said a bad word about anyone....gone. I feel so horrible for Zeb and Baby Tory and for Bobbie's mom, who will never, as long as she lives, be able to erase the picture in her mind of her daughter lying in a pool of her own blood with ligature marks on her neck. Damn all these sick animals to the very pit of hell. :behindbar :behindbar :behindbar
 
  • #252
englishleigh said:
Thanks for the update, Charlie. I guess nothing else now until the indictment is handed down. I now hope she will plead guilty in exchange for LWOP in Leavenworth. But meanwhile, Bobbie Stinnett is still dead. I can't help but think that every time something is on the news about court proceedings in cases like this. CMISP will be on death row...meanwhile, Laci and Conner are still dead. They've arrested that sick perv who killed the little girl on Christmas Eve in Indiana....meanwhile, Christina Tedder is still dead. There is nothing that can ever make up for the fact that these animals killed innocent people, and those innocents can never be brought back. It's absolutely heartbreaking. This story has just really gutted me....such a sweet, angelic young lady, looking forward to being a mother, who loved animals and never said a bad word about anyone....gone. I feel so horrible for Zeb and Baby Tory and for Bobbie's mom, who will never, as long as she lives, be able to erase the picture in her mind of her daughter lying in a pool of her own blood with ligature marks on her neck. Damn all these sick animals to the very pit of hell. :behindbar :behindbar :behindbar
I can tell it has really bothered you, and you are right in that there is nothing that can ever bring these innocent victims back. In the case of Christina Tedder, like Dru Sjodin - why are these criminals released is the question that keeps running through me. I am appalled, it seems so obvious to me that a criminal is a criminal and since nothing seems to change then why are they ever released ? I just cannot understand why our justice system does not seem to learn or is unwilling to learn not to release these criminals into an innocent population. The law as applied seems incapable of protecting. I am growing very weary of criminals having rights - I sometimes wonder if vigilante justice might just be a good idea.

Well I don't know if you want to see this or not but I will post anyways a link to the Motion for Pre Trial Detention.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/news2004/montgomery_detention.pdf
 
  • #253
raisincharlie said:
I can tell it has really bothered you, and you are right in that there is nothing that can ever bring these innocent victims back. In the case of Christina Tedder, like Dru Sjodin - why are these criminals released is the question that keeps running through me. I am appalled, it seems so obvious to me that a criminal is a criminal and since nothing seems to change then why are they ever released ? I just cannot understand why our justice system does not seem to learn or is unwilling to learn not to release these criminals into an innocent population. The law as applied seems incapable of protecting. I am growing very weary of criminals having rights - I sometimes wonder if vigilante justice might just be a good idea.

Well I don't know if you want to see this or not but I will post anyways a link to the Motion for Pre Trial Detention.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/news2004/montgomery_detention.pdf

Thanks...and I do want to see whatever you can find on this! I like Todd Graves...he seems very smart and young and a go-getter...he will get her successfully prosecuted.

Edited to add: Did you read the account of Zeb's friend, Chris Law, who lived across the street from the Stinnetts? He said he felt many times that afternoon that he should go over and check on Bobbie, but did not go b/c he saw the red car of LM's in the driveway and thought that Bobbie had company and he didn't want to intrude. He feels horrible & guilty now
that he did not act on his instincts to go over there...he might have caught Lisa in the act and saved Bobbie's life.
 
  • #254
englishleigh said:
Thanks...and I do want to see whatever you can find on this! I like Todd Graves...he seems very smart and young and a go-getter...he will get her successfully prosecuted.

Edited to add: Did you read the account of Zeb's friend, Chris Law, who lived across the street from the Stinnetts? He said he felt many times that afternoon that he should go over and check on Bobbie, but did not go b/c he saw the red car of LM's in the driveway and thought that Bobbie had company and he didn't want to intrude. He feels horrible & guilty now
that he did not act on his instincts to go over there...he might have caught Lisa in the act and saved Bobbie's life.
I remember reading an article such as that. One has to feel bad for that fellow, I am sure he is guilt ridden and terribly upset with himself. The poor guy is going to think about it for the rest of his life - very sad. I bet that whole town will be on alert for some time to come. I think people should rely a bit more on their instincts, sometimes when something is nagging at you, there's a reason.

Its odd, we live out in the country and there is an elderly neighbor couple up at the corner of the highway and the lane. Everytime the Mrs. sees a car turn down the lane she does not know she waits a bit and then calls. She's done this for years. At first I have to say it was a bit annoying, then I got tickled at her, now I think it's not such a bad thing. The good thing is if anyone turns into her drive she does not know - she calls as well and won't open the door. Sure does make one think.
 
  • #255
raisincharlie said:
I remember reading an article such as that. One has to feel bad for that fellow, I am sure he is guilt ridden and terribly upset with himself. The poor guy is going to think about it for the rest of his life - very sad. I bet that whole town will be on alert for some time to come. I think people should rely a bit more on their instincts, sometimes when something is nagging at you, there's a reason.

Its odd, we live out in the country and there is an elderly neighbor couple up at the corner of the highway and the lane. Everytime the Mrs. sees a car turn down the lane she does not know she waits a bit and then calls. She's done this for years. At first I have to say it was a bit annoying, then I got tickled at her, now I think it's not such a bad thing. The good thing is if anyone turns into her drive she does not know - she calls as well and won't open the door. Sure does make one think.

I tend to look out for my neighbors like this, too. I wonder if it was normal for there to be strange cars in the Stinnetts' driveway, since Bobbie sold puppies? Maybe that was why Chris Law didn't go...he felt it was probably a puppy sale, and he didn't want to intrude? I agree he is going to feel badly for the rest of his life...every time he looks at their house across the street. The thing about a strangulation murder is, there is no opportunity for the victim to scream if taken by surprise, which Bobbie was, because she was strangled from behind. If she'd been able to let out a bloodcurdling scream, maybe Chris would have heard...
Part of me hopes that this does go to trial...there are so many unanswered questions...how did Moonbat get out of the house with that baby without being seen?? The houses on the street seem to be set very close together. How did she clean the baby up enough to be presentable to her family? How was there not blood in the car that someone didn't notice??? One thing that I would love to know, but likely will never know because the only person who truly knows is Bobbie...what did she think when she opened the door to the woman she thought was "Darlene", and it was the Moonbat, Lisa, whom the other rat terrier posters said Bobbie was wary of, anyway?? Shouldn't that have been a huge tipoff that something was amiss?? What the heck did LM say to Bobbie to convince her to let LM inside?? The woman from the message board who helped the FBI trace Lisa b/c she was universally known as a liar and a fruitcake on the board told LE that Bobbie wouldn't have let Lisa Montgomery into her house, much less sold her one of her beloved puppies...so that makes me wonder if Bobbie had ever connected the "face" of Lisa Montgomery with the name, KWIM? Maybe the whole time she believed she was dealing with "Darlene" and never knew any different?? What was the lag time between Lisa arriving at the house and being admitted by BJS, and the murder?? Chris Law told LE that Moonbat's red car was parked at Bobbie's house from approximately 12:30-2:30 pm...that totally goes against what Becky Harper, Bobbie's mom, said...she said she was talking to Bobbie at around 2:30 when Bobbie told her the person coming to look at the puppy had just arrived and she had to go...if what Chris says is true, why was she there for 2 hours?? Was she visiting with BJS, trying to get up enough nerve to kill her?? Did she go through with the ruse of looking at the puppies, and if so, why would that take 2 hours? Did Chris see Lisa, possibly, sitting in front of BJS' house, at 12:30 but maybe Lisa didn't go in at the time and drove away...and Chris didn't look again until 2:30 when Lisa finally had just arrived again and gone inside?? Definitely Chris will be a witness, I am sure.
I hope, too, that at some point when the trial, if there is one, is going on, that perhaps we will get to hear from Zeb and Becky and other family members...I have thought about them so much...I know they are in seclusion now and taking care of Tory and trying to find way to go on without Bobbie...but I hope, like Sharon Rocha, they will speak out soon, or at least when the trial happens.
 
  • #256
In the Jan. 10th issue of People, which was just put on newsstands tonight, there is an article about Bobbie Jo and what happened to her. Two photos not seen before...another, different one of her in the striped tank top, must be senior portraits b/c her hair is short and very different...and then a gorgeous wedding photo of she and Zeb...the article tells the same basic story we all know...there is also a really nice photo of her maternal grandparents, Gene and Patty Day...and it says they hosted a family dinner on Christmas Day in honor of Victoria's first Christmas, even though they are grieving for their granddaughter. It ends with a bit about how Victoria is the only sunshine in Zeb's life right now, but that he will go on and smile again. So very sad. :(
 
  • #257
englishleigh you raise some interesting questions. I have wondered about the timing as well. Here's what I'm thinking:

Perhaps Chris saw LM's car around 1230 parked on the street but I doubt that she was in the house at that time. I think LM was in the neighborhood, scoping things out and working up her nerve after shopping at Walmart. If she was in that house all that time, she did nothing until after 230 and if she was in the house then someone else arrived at 230. So if LM was in that house at 1230 til 230 - who arrived at 230 ? - does this imply she had a partner ? I think Chris saw the car when he looked out but it wasn't there for long.

If this all happened begining at 230 - LM wasted absolutely no time in getting to the reason for her visit. I too have wondered if she cleaned the baby up at the house and put her in clothes she had bought that morning. Did LM have a change of clothes with her and she changed and cleaned up as well at the house ? She would have had to clean herself up somewhere and very quickly. If so I wonder if the clothes were found ?

Also LM called her husband at 515 - did she have a cell phone or did she call from a payphone ? I think I heard something about a cell phone but can't remember. Was she in Topeka by the time the call was made or close enough that she knew she would be at the location before her husband got there? I wonder about the route she took coming back - back roads I would think - Skidmore to Topeka is over 2 hours of drive time, I wonder if there were MapQuest searches done on her home computer for driving routes or if she had taken this trip before and knew how she would drive it? If any of the mapping sites were searched and they can be recovered along with dates it would certainly seal the premeditation part air tight.

I don't know, there are so many questions, if it doesn't go to trial we will never know, I want to know but I hate to see it go to trial for the families sake. For then it would just be so much better if she would just plead and take a big ole "moonbat" punishment and be done.
 
  • #258
  • #259
I wonder if she did clean the baby up in Bobbie's house?? I would think, though, that she'd want to skedaddle...after all, she had no idea if Zeb would be home soon or if anyone would just walk in, as Becky did soon after Lisa left. I wonder if LE has searched the dumpsters around the Long John Silver's in Topeka where she called Kevin? Maybe they would find bloody clothes and rags there, maybe??

I bet she didn't stay long in Bobbie's house...I think she walked in and was friendly at first, exchanged pleasantries, but the minute Bobbie turned her back, she attacked...I think they walked towards the back of the house, where she likely kept the kennels for the dogs, in the back yard, and Lisa was walking behind Bobbie and attacked her from behind and pulled her into a back bedroom and finished her off there and took the baby...the reason I think that is that the People magazine article said that Bobbie's body was found by her mom in a back room...I pictured it happening right inside the door, for some reason...but the article says Becky found her in the back of the house. I can just imagine Becky walking in the ajar front door, calling for Bobbie and getting no reply, walking through the house and finding her...just horrible.

Anyway, I bet it would have taken about 10-12 minutes to do the whole horrid thing...it takes 4-6 minutes to strangle someone to death or to cause brain death...then another 5 or 6 minutes to cut out the baby...I bet she flew out the door with Victoria wrapped in a blanket and drove like a moonbat out of hell, out of town. I bet she made Topeka pretty quickly...I agree about half-wishing for a trial to settle all the questions, but it would be best for both families if she would just plead...I wonder if Todd Graves, the U.S. Attorney, will let her, though?? Doesn't he make the ultimate decision as to whether to go to trial?? I wonder if Zeb and Becky will have any input? If I were them, I'd want the death penalty for that evil
*%&%!!
 
  • #260
Graves does not have to offer her a plea deal - the only way I see him doing that is if the evidence doesn't support his case which we already know it does or the Feds are demanding that pleas be made to cut court costs.


I believe Graves has to consider the family wishes but is not necessarily bound to pursue them either way. I somehow get the feeling that Graves will pursue the female Dr. Lector to the end if not restricted by higher up government officials.
 

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