MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #1

[mtrooper]

maybe I am way off here but if this all went down on wednesday wouldn't her body be the same temp as the ground by now? Especially if it had been rainy? I am still wondering if they are going to follow the trash trucks as they did in Somer's case.

 

[Robyn623]

Friday, October 23, 2009 at 12:56 p.m.


The highway patrol is using a helicopter at his hour to search for missing 9 year-old Elizabeth Olten.

The helicopter is using infrared scanners to look for heat on the ground.

Besides looking from the sky, about 70 searchers are on foot.

Even so, Cole County Sheriff Greg White said he is not sure if Elizabeth is still in the area.
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=366995

Yay! I am glad to hear the helicopter is up!

I hate to be the morbid one but does anyone know how long it takes before a body will no longer be picked up using heat sensors? Sorry..I know it is a terrible question & I hate going there.

 

[Sable]

Someone brought this up on page 3, and I think it was overlooked. There might be some kind of connection to Jasmine Haslag. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50784

 

[vjlaw]

How many other kids live in those houses? It would seem to me someone would have to know Elizabeth would be coming out of the house to walk back to her house so they could nab her. It would be hard to sit there and take a chance that she would be walking back home. Or does she go to this neighbors house everyday so that someone would know she does this everyday? Given the location, it seems Elizabeth has to be known to the person wanting to take her. Has the family talked to the grandpa or know his whereabouts? What was grandpa in prison for?

 

[Jodibug]

The infared and helicopters were out Wednesday night and Thursday as well.

She may have never been in the woods.... perhaps someone threw the phone in there. If that is the case hopefully it will be found (and have prints on it)

Ok, I've gone back and looked at the Google pics again. Just North of the pond is a place of land shaped kind of like a pork chop, and a square right in front of it.

I think the house is in the "pork chop" area, facing North East- not parallel to the highway.

But I will check tonight. I have 2 hrs, 15 mins left at work. I ride with my husband so I will be at his mercy, but I will see if he minds driving by before we go home. It is two miles past our house. I am sure he won't mind. I am more worried about the officers on the scene minding. I normally try to stay away from such things as they ask the public to do.

If searching is still going on Sunday I will be back searching. But unless they have info leading us to another search site, I think that will be useless. Those woods behind her house have been thouroughly gone over and are still being searched. By Sunday I would think there is no chance of her being there.

 

[Jodibug]

Someone brought this up on page 3, and I think it was overlooked. There might be some kind of connection to Jasmine Haslag. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50784

Jasmine was living with Dale Sr (Elizabeth's dad) when she dissappeared. Dale Sr is the one and only suspect in Jasmine's disappearance. Dale Sr is currently in prison on drug charges.

 

[Jodibug]

How many other kids live in those houses? It would seem to me someone would have to know Elizabeth would be coming out of the house to walk back to her house so they could nab her. It would be hard to sit there and take a chance that she would be walking back home. Or does she go to this neighbors house everyday so that someone would know she does this everyday? Given the location, it seems Elizabeth has to be known to the person wanting to take her. Has the family talked to the grandpa or know his whereabouts? What was grandpa in prison for?

I do not know if Elizabeth's grandfather has been questioned. I would ASSume so, but have no definite answer.

There are other children there. A lady I used to work with lives just across Rt D, 1/4 mile down and her daughter was a friend of Elizabeth's.

With the phone being "deep in the woods", I think it was someone local. Someone who knew that area very, very well.

 

[vjlaw]

Could someone stand on the side of the road and throw the phone into the woods or would it have to have been carried back there?

 

[Robyn623]

I saw this on Facebook and I figured I'd post it in case anyone was interested:

Everyone 2:15 Binder Park! If you can be there to search then be there !Walk around the park! See what you can find! The more area searched the better! Meet at the Pavilion by the park! GO IN GROUPS!!!! RSVP! Get there when you can! Bring flyers to pass out to people!

So, what is Binder Park & how far is it from where Elizabeth went missing? Is it a playground like park or just a wooded area?

One more thing...thanks, Jodibug, for keeping us all updated & for searching for Elizabeth! Sorry we keep sucking you back in.

 

[Jodibug]

Could someone stand on the side of the road and throw the phone into the woods or would it have to have been carried back there?

If you were on the side of the road then it wouldn't make it very far into the woods.

If it is "deep" in the woods as several articles have stated, someone would have had to walk back there.

Bittersweet road doesn't go anywhere anyway.... so I doubt that someone tossed it out as they were driving by.

There are a couple of large ponds and a handful of small ponds back there as well. Those probably need to be drained.

 

[lawlady84]

Sorry I am just getting up to date with this case, if her father is in prison, who does she live with? Her mother? And is the grandpa who just got out of prison from her mother or father's side?

 

[kcsleuth]

Re: Silver Mazda

I looked at all of the sex offenders in the 65109 area.

I did find this one near St. Louis but it seems pretty far away

http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/CJ38/Veh...more&suffix=&firstName=Todd&middleName=Steven

 

[mtrooper]

Rough estimate 8-12 cool to the touch. 2-3 times as long for internal temperature to get that cool. Depends on a lot of factors, what she was wearing, weather, etc.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_quick_does_you_body_temperature_cool_down_when_just_dead

 

[Jodibug]

I saw this on Facebook and I figured I'd post it in case anyone was interested:

Everyone 2:15 Binder Park! If you can be there to search then be there !Walk around the park! See what you can find! The more area searched the better! Meet at the Pavilion by the park! GO IN GROUPS!!!! RSVP! Get there when you can! Bring flyers to pass out to people!

So, what is Binder Park & how far is it from where Elizabeth went missing? Is it a playground like park or just a wooded area?

One more thing...thanks, Jodibug, for keeping us all updated & for searching for Elizabeth! Sorry we keep sucking you back in.

Uggh.... They should only search Binder park if there is a reason to point to there. It is not adjacent!

Take Rt D North to the four way stop sign and then turn heading East on Business 50 West. Binder park is on the left between Business 50 west and Rainbow Drive.

There are ball fields, a very small play area and a fishing lake.

It is where the Jefferson City Public Schools hold their softball games. Directly across from Mertens Bait & Tackle shop, a gas station and Trademark Properties .

 

[Jodibug]

Binder Park makes NO sense to me.

It is heavily used day and night. There are always people there. Not where you would go dump a body.

Years ago.... close to 17-18 years ago..... a body was dumped off the side of Route D near Lohman (several miles South of Elizabeth's house).

It was a boy my age (and I was a teenager at the time) and everyone thought he ran away until a farmer found his body. I think his first name was Shawn, and I don't believe they ever found out who killed him. (Memory is very foggy though).

But anyway, whenever I think of someone driving Elizabeth's body away, I think of the heading towards Lohman. That is probably because I know a body was dumped there once before though.

 

[Robyn623]

I went ahead and mapped it so I could get a visual on where this park is. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=222+lomo+dr&daddr=Binder+State+Park,+Jefferson+City,+Missouri+65109&geocode=&view=map&gl=us&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=38.586384,-92.313266&sspn=0.022408,0.048923&ie=UTF8&ll=38.591214,-92.30906&spn=0.022407,0.048923&t=h&z=15

 

[vjlaw]

Binder Park has a lake for fishing, a ballpark, wooded area and playground area not far from her house. Not to sure about mileage but on outskirts of Jefferson City. I wondered about Binder myself. But if the phone is DEEP in the woods like Jodibug said then it would seem to me someone had her back there where they got the cellphone ping. They started the search within the hour. So if someone did something terrible to her they had to do the terrible thing and get out of those woods. Unless of course they could have just thrown her phone back that deep into the woods.

 

[Jodibug]

Sorry I am just getting up to date with this case, if her father is in prison, who does she live with? Her mother? And is the grandpa who just got out of prison from her mother or father's side?

She lives with her mother.

I do not know for sure, but since father Dale Sr and her brother Dale Jr are both currently in prison, I ASSume that it is the Paternal grandfather.

All grandfather theories are JUST RUMOR though. I have NO facts to substantiate them. It is just something that I have heard, but I have never heard what MOTIVE grandpa would have for taking her.

 

[Robyn623]

Well, it looks like that info has been pulled. No searching the park due to possible liability & contamination concerns. The family has put out a statement on how people can help out:
Family Statement

If you would like to volunteer:

You can contact the Red Cross
You can print & pass out fliers in your neighborhood
You can take a walk in around your neighborhood or in your local park
Keep your ears and eyes open for anything that ma...y help
Spread the word ~ Spreading the word is key to helping us find Elizabeth and bring her home !!

Also, the person who runs the FB page says they are looking for someone who has the materials & equipment to do button making. Not sure if anyone here has access to this sort of stuff but I figured I'd throw this out there just in case.

 

[gliving]

Jodibug, you are so kind to share with us.

If you use "street view" on google maps you can see a newer white house with a pond and long driveway. It's not on the regular above view.