MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

[hoppyfrog]

Once the family names become public, we can name them in our posts.

You're kind of right but not quite....

Once the name of the main suspect is given out by LE, we can use that person's full name.

However, here at WS we use initials for family members, friends, etc. even though they've been named in the media.

Thanks,

Hoppy

 

[Dal Gal]

Was Alyssa still attending church activities recently, or was that another pre-2007 interest?

 

[danni]

You're kind of right but not quite....

Once the name of the main suspect is given out by LE, we can use that person's full name.

However, here at WS we use initials for family members, friends, etc. even though they've been named in the media.

Thanks,

Hoppy

I am so glad WS has morals!

 

[lajr56]

"I mean s*** I would love to know what it feels like to kill someone and I am damn sure that lots of you have also considered this thought."

This text is part of the intro to a "tribute" video uploaded very recently onto YouTube. I'm pretty certain she's a minor, so no link, but go to youtube.com and search for alyssa bustamante. You're looking for emocuppycake13.

ETA: Emocuppycake lives in Georgia, so not a personal friend of AB's, but would be if she lived in JC!

Eick!

 

[human]

I am also very sad that poor Alyssa was born into the life she was. But some children are born with all kinds of terrible things such as cancer, for example. It certainly was not their choice.

I'm sure that she is a product of her upbringing ,and she just couldn't overcome it for some reason, whereas others have. I can't read the book, something about a child named IT. From the description, it sounds much worse that Alyssa. For some reason, he overcame.

It sounds like there were a lot of people in her life trying to help her. It just didn't work. Maybe someday she'll wake up when she's 40 and say, "What have I done?" Maybe she won't.

I don't want her living at my house. I don't want her living on my street. Maybe some people would take her in. I, however, think that she should be locked up. She made a terrible decision that can't be taken back. Sometimes that happens in lots of people's lives. It's sad. Very sad.

 

[Elley Mae]

I am also very sad that poor Alyssa was born into the life she was. But some children are born with all kinds of terrible things such as cancer, for example. It certainly was not their choice.

I'm sure that she is a product of her upbringing ,and she just couldn't overcome it for some reason, whereas others have. I can't read the book, something about a child named IT. From the description, it sounds much worse that Alyssa. For some reason, he overcame.

It sounds like there were a lot of people in her life trying to help her. It just didn't work. Maybe someday she'll wake up when she's 40 and say, "What have I done?" Maybe she won't.

I don't want her living at my house. I don't want her living on my street. Maybe some people would take her in. I, however, think that she should be locked up. She made a terrible decision that can't be taken back. Sometimes that happens in lots of people's lives. It's sad. Very sad.

I have said that ppl are the "product of their environment" I have used this term when talking to my Mother about my sister. She was the same, but different, it was my mother's fault that she turned out the way she did, 4 older children were fine, me included.

 

[Peace Lover]

I’ve been following this case/story closely since its inception and I’ve been studying this thread for 3 days. I’m awe struck at the intelligence & emotions everyone’s sincerely displaying. Sometimes the world seems so cold to me, plastic, self-centered & heartless that when I encounter genuinely good people it rekindles my faith in humanity & warms the marrow of my bones.

There are many troubling aspects to this case, most of which will probably/hopefully be resolved through investigation, litigation & people like us sharing our sentiments, but it’s also going to require the elapsing of time.

I don’t want to minimize the deep sense of sadness I feel for the family & friends of poor little Elizabeth Olten, or the emotional pain I feel when I let my imagination take me to her final moments; I’m crying as I write this because I’m reminded of what Elizabeth Olten must have endured--God bless the Oltens.

However, I pray that the truth seeking process which encompasses the laws, judicial system, courts & a trial which Alyssa Bustamante will most likely embark upon is just/fair and affords her due process.

What I’m reading in the news severely disturbs me. I find it appalling that a 15 year old girl, 3 years shy of being an adult, who physically doesn’t have the capacity to think like an adult because her neurological pathways, grey matter, neurological transmitters & receptor sites aren’t even developed yet can be tried as an adult. I can understand 1 year shy but 3 years! Sounds more like a vendetta coupled with the lack of ability to want to explore & correct the causes & conditions which prompted AB to allegedly commit this crime; I was taught to hate the sin not the sinner but I forget this philosophy sometimes too & get reminded of it by sods such as myself.

I hope the judge that levied this ridiculous ruling of trying her as an adult changes their mind & tries her as the child/adolescent she is. AB should be afforded a chance to be rehabilitated in the juvenile system rather than the punishment & retribution that predicates the motive of dooming her to an adult non correctional facility. At best she gets rehabilitated in Missouri’s juvenile system that is recognized nationally for its success & low recidivism rate; at worst she is not safe to be returned to society and kept institutionalized. However, sending her to prison for life with out the possibility of parole right out of the gate not only does AB an injustice, but deprives all of us from knowing if she is/was just a mentally ill adolescent that could have been cured through God’s mercy & grace which in my view is the root of rehabilitation & the intent of the people that make rehab possible. I’m concerned they are going to make Alyssa a victim too, more so than I think she already is.

I’m not even going into the mitigating circumstances associated with Alyssa’s history, background & the drugs she was taking on top of an already underdeveloped adolescent mind/brain which also substantiates why this little girl should not be tried as an adult.

Peace be with you.

 

[human]

I’ve been following this case/story closely since its inception and I’ve been studying this thread for 3 days. I’m awe struck at the intelligence & emotions everyone’s sincerely displaying. Sometimes the world seems so cold to me, plastic, self-centered & heartless that when I encounter genuinely good people it rekindles my faith in humanity & warms the marrow of my bones.

There are many troubling aspects to this case, most of which will probably/hopefully be resolved through investigation, litigation & people like us sharing our sentiments, but it’s also going to require the elapsing of time.

I don’t want to minimize the deep sense of sadness I feel for the family & friends of poor little Elizabeth Olten, or the emotional pain I feel when I let my imagination take me to her final moments; I’m crying as I write this because I’m reminded of what Elizabeth Olten must have endured--God bless the Oltens.

However, I pray that the truth seeking process which encompasses the laws, judicial system, courts & a trial which Alyssa Bustamante will most likely embark upon is just/fair and affords her due process.

What I’m reading in the news severely disturbs me. I find it appalling that a 15 year old girl, 3 years shy of being an adult, who physically doesn’t have the capacity to think like an adult because her neurological pathways, grey matter, neurological transmitters & receptor sites aren’t even developed yet can be tried as an adult. I can understand 1 year shy but 3 years! Sounds more like a vendetta coupled with the lack of ability to want to explore & correct the causes & conditions which prompted AB to allegedly commit this crime; I was taught to hate the sin not the sinner but I forget this philosophy sometimes too & get reminded of it by sods such as myself.

I hope the judge that levied this ridiculous ruling of trying her as an adult changes their mind & tries her as the child/adolescent she is. AB should be afforded a chance to be rehabilitated in the juvenile system rather than the punishment & retribution that predicates the motive of dooming her to an adult non correctional facility. At best she gets rehabilitated in Missouri’s juvenile system that is recognized nationally for its success & low recidivism rate; at worst she is not safe to be returned to society and kept institutionalized. However, sending her to prison for life with out the possibility of parole right out of the gate not only does AB an injustice, but deprives all of us from knowing if she is/was just a mentally ill adolescent that could have been cured through God’s mercy & grace which in my view is the root of rehabilitation & the intent of the people that make rehab possible. I’m concerned they are going to make Alyssa a victim too, more so than I think she already is.

I’m not even going into the mitigating circumstances associated with Alyssa’s history, background & the drugs she was taking on top of an already underdeveloped adolescent mind/brain which also substantiates why this little girl should not be tried as an adult.

Peace be with you.

I believe that we all have been given free will. Even as a small child, you know when you are doing something wrong, but you choose to do it anyway.

Alyssa knew what she was doing was wrong. It's not like some of the ethical questions when people have to choose. Like should I steal this loaf of bread because my family is starving even though it's wrong to steal?

Murdering a little child is not an ethical dilemma. If you don't know that by age 15 and don't care at age 15, then you made a bad choice. If she had driven into a tree because she was high on drugs and had become a quadriplegic, then that would have been sad. But there is no taking it back. Society needs to be protected and also told that murder is simply not a crime that we can accept.

It would be different to me if she had done it in a fit of rage and it was accidental. But she planned this, maybe for a long time. She went down the road to murder and never turned back. And her cell phone post seems to indicate that she didn't even think a second about it.

 

[LogicalMinds]

JMO>>> I have zero desire to read any poems from Alyssa...

maybe psychologists and scientists can study them and find insights...I personally don't feel moved by whatever creepy thoughts she had.

I am creeped out by her friend sitting there with a cross around her neck calmly saying how "nice" Allyssa was, yet calmly saying how she told her wanted to "kill someone">>>eeek

as for a "tribute video" to Alyssa....double eeek....JMO whoever knows this cupcake should get her the help Alyssa needed
that is like some kid "idolizing" the Columbine killers

Too bad the family, friends, shrinks didn't see the severe problems she had...but at this point....not much more to be done IMHO. My thoughts and sympathies go to Elizabeth and her family. I hope they keep this dangerous killer inside for life

 

[Csquare]

I’ve been following this case/story closely since its inception and I’ve been studying this thread for 3 days. I’m awe struck at the intelligence & emotions everyone’s sincerely displaying. Sometimes the world seems so cold to me, plastic, self-centered & heartless that when I encounter genuinely good people it rekindles my faith in humanity & warms the marrow of my bones.

There are many troubling aspects to this case, most of which will probably/hopefully be resolved through investigation, litigation & people like us sharing our sentiments, but it’s also going to require the elapsing of time.

I don’t want to minimize the deep sense of sadness I feel for the family & friends of poor little Elizabeth Olten, or the emotional pain I feel when I let my imagination take me to her final moments; I’m crying as I write this because I’m reminded of what Elizabeth Olten must have endured--God bless the Oltens.

However, I pray that the truth seeking process which encompasses the laws, judicial system, courts & a trial which Alyssa Bustamante will most likely embark upon is just/fair and affords her due process.

What I’m reading in the news severely disturbs me. I find it appalling that a 15 year old girl, 3 years shy of being an adult, who physically doesn’t have the capacity to think like an adult because her neurological pathways, grey matter, neurological transmitters & receptor sites aren’t even developed yet can be tried as an adult. I can understand 1 year shy but 3 years! Sounds more like a vendetta coupled with the lack of ability to want to explore & correct the causes & conditions which prompted AB to allegedly commit this crime; I was taught to hate the sin not the sinner but I forget this philosophy sometimes too & get reminded of it by sods such as myself.

I hope the judge that levied this ridiculous ruling of trying her as an adult changes their mind & tries her as the child/adolescent she is. AB should be afforded a chance to be rehabilitated in the juvenile system rather than the punishment & retribution that predicates the motive of dooming her to an adult non correctional facility. At best she gets rehabilitated in Missouri’s juvenile system that is recognized nationally for its success & low recidivism rate; at worst she is not safe to be returned to society and kept institutionalized. However, sending her to prison for life with out the possibility of parole right out of the gate not only does AB an injustice, but deprives all of us from knowing if she is/was just a mentally ill adolescent that could have been cured through God’s mercy & grace which in my view is the root of rehabilitation & the intent of the people that make rehab possible. I’m concerned they are going to make Alyssa a victim too, more so than I think she already is.

I’m not even going into the mitigating circumstances associated with Alyssa’s history, background & the drugs she was taking on top of an already underdeveloped adolescent mind/brain which also substantiates why this little girl should not be tried as an adult.

Peace be with you.

If you are capable of premeditating a murder you are capable of dealing with it as an adult. They have been trying to rehab her for too long with no luck.

 

[W8nC]

Peace Lover, I agree with a whole lot of what you say, especially about the sadness every one of us feels when we think of the loss of Elizabeth, the pain we feel at imagining her last moments, and the sincere hope that AB's treatment is fair and just. I also agree that she needs a lot of help, mentally and emotionally. Even if she spends the rest of her life in prison, she deserves all the help we can manage to give her to try to live that life in as positive and productive a way as possible.

However, I feel she should be dealt with in the adult system, and not the juvenile system, primarily because, in the juvenile system, they are required to turn her loose at age 21, REGARDLESS of whether she is rehabilitated or NOT. She'll be 16 in January. We know she's been in serious therapy for 2 years already. Will another 5 years therapy make her safe?

The very first social lesson we teach a child is not to hurt others. Don't hit. Don't bite. Don't scratch. Don't throw things at others. The first thing. A 15 month old knows this. A 15 year old certainly knows this.

 

[danni]

I am also very sad that poor Alyssa was born into the life she was. But some children are born with all kinds of terrible things such as cancer, for example. It certainly was not their choice.

I'm sure that she is a product of her upbringing ,and she just couldn't overcome it for some reason, whereas others have. I can't read the book, something about a child named IT. From the description, it sounds much worse that Alyssa. For some reason, he overcame.

It sounds like there were a lot of people in her life trying to help her. It just didn't work. Maybe someday she'll wake up when she's 40 and say, "What have I done?" Maybe she won't.

I don't want her living at my house. I don't want her living on my street. Maybe some people would take her in. I, however, think that she should be locked up. She made a terrible decision that can't be taken back. Sometimes that happens in lots of people's lives. It's sad. Very sad.

The book you are talking about is "A Child Called IT" By Dave Pelzer.
This man was starved by his mother, when she did give him foot it was rancid mean most of the time. She made him drink his own urine, and ammonia. He was chained to a toilet, the chain was so short that he could not even USE the toilet he was chianed to for a large portion of his life. She STABBED him and refused care. This woman was MORE THAN HORRIBLE to him. He is an amazing man and his story of survival is amazing! I read the book a few years ago. If you have stomach the book it is a great read!

 

[W8nC]

:Welcome-12-june: Peace Lover

Websleuths are pleased to have you!!


:balloons:

 

[LogicalMinds]

Ugh....that little cuppycake needs help "stop hatin on Alyssa"....yow

ugh....everything about Alyssa seems to be very depraved...the videos of her with the brothers at the pool, the fence and others...the horrible facebook pics...the fact she clearly said she wanted to kill

I think IF she was a boy we would see the (more usual) outpouring of anger...some just can't wrap their heads around this...I have a hard time myself...but face it..would you want her out and living near you 7 years from now?? Want her to be your kids college dorm mate?? want your son to marry her?

she seems to be really depraved and sick...yeah too bad they didn't do more to stop her, confine her....and what is being done about/for kids who apparently "sympathize" or empathize with her?

what about cuppy?? we see these awful facebook pics and say "oh something should have been done"...well here we have a sick young person making a "tribute" to this depraved person


xXxEmoCuppyCake13xXx (4 hours ago) Show Hide
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The truth aint always pretty. Half of the teenage population today has had the thought of murder cross there mind multipule times rather it be how to do it, what it would feel like to do it or, what it would feel like to be murdered.
I may be crazy, insane, and a nusence to my own health at times...but so is everyone else. Also I do not have a younger sister.


unreal

There are some beautiful tribute videos to little Elizabeth

 

[LogicalMinds]

Human...I agree...

a fit of rage would be more "human"...this kid is beyond help

and what really scares me is that there is at least one little follower who admits she also has thoughts of murdering someone...posts a video tribute to Allyssa

where does it end?? Enough is enough

 

[danni]

I’ve been following this case/story closely since its inception and I’ve been studying this thread for 3 days. I’m awe struck at the intelligence & emotions everyone’s sincerely displaying. Sometimes the world seems so cold to me, plastic, self-centered & heartless that when I encounter genuinely good people it rekindles my faith in humanity & warms the marrow of my bones.

There are many troubling aspects to this case, most of which will probably/hopefully be resolved through investigation, litigation & people like us sharing our sentiments, but it’s also going to require the elapsing of time.

I don’t want to minimize the deep sense of sadness I feel for the family & friends of poor little Elizabeth Olten, or the emotional pain I feel when I let my imagination take me to her final moments; I’m crying as I write this because I’m reminded of what Elizabeth Olten must have endured--God bless the Oltens.

However, I pray that the truth seeking process which encompasses the laws, judicial system, courts & a trial which Alyssa Bustamante will most likely embark upon is just/fair and affords her due process.

What I’m reading in the news severely disturbs me. I find it appalling that a 15 year old girl, 3 years shy of being an adult, who physically doesn’t have the capacity to think like an adult because her neurological pathways, grey matter, neurological transmitters & receptor sites aren’t even developed yet can be tried as an adult. I can understand 1 year shy but 3 years! Sounds more like a vendetta coupled with the lack of ability to want to explore & correct the causes & conditions which prompted AB to allegedly commit this crime; I was taught to hate the sin not the sinner but I forget this philosophy sometimes too & get reminded of it by sods such as myself.

I hope the judge that levied this ridiculous ruling of trying her as an adult changes their mind & tries her as the child/adolescent she is. AB should be afforded a chance to be rehabilitated in the juvenile system rather than the punishment & retribution that predicates the motive of dooming her to an adult non correctional facility. At best she gets rehabilitated in Missouri’s juvenile system that is recognized nationally for its success & low recidivism rate; at worst she is not safe to be returned to society and kept institutionalized. However, sending her to prison for life with out the possibility of parole right out of the gate not only does AB an injustice, but deprives all of us from knowing if she is/was just a mentally ill adolescent that could have been cured through God’s mercy & grace which in my view is the root of rehabilitation & the intent of the people that make rehab possible. I’m concerned they are going to make Alyssa a victim too, more so than I think she already is.

I’m not even going into the mitigating circumstances associated with Alyssa’s history, background & the drugs she was taking on top of an already underdeveloped adolescent mind/brain which also substantiates why this little girl should not be tried as an adult.

Peace be with you.

So what you are saying is 18 is a magic number and NO ONE should be held responsible for what they did prior to that MAGIC day!
I don't buy it. My five year old FIVE YEARS OLD! knows better than to step on the cat because she can hurt it and if she hurts it bad enough it will die and death means you are never coming back!
I don't understand how she can not/should not be held responsible for what she did!

I have posted it before and I will post it again just in case anyone missed it!

I am going to sound like one cruel mean and evil b!%^h but I don't care what her mental state is was or whatever. If she gets life (which I pray to God, wish on a rock, a falling star, star light star bright the first star I will see tonight anything that MIGHT work) that she gets. Personaly I don't think she DESERVES any type of meds. Who cares what her mental state is while she is locked up, WE the people of this state are providing her with three hots and a cot that she will be given for the rest of her life. Why spend the money on meds for a person who will never be let back out on the streets again.

There are MILLIONS of people that are living on the streets and can not afford the medication that they NEED for mental illness, heart issues, or CANCER these people have not commited a crime they are simply living this way because they put their health before their home. Yet "we" are willing to "cure" a 15 year old girl who KILLED an innocent little 9 year old SIMPLY BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IT FELT LIKE?

If it is such a tragedy what is going on with Alyssa, I can get you the phone number to Cole country PA and you can have a talk with him about Alyssa coming to live at your house for the rest of her days! maybe you could cure her! I know I don't what her little in my neighborhood!

 

[MDATCA]

Ab can do good from a place that the rest of society is safe from her. In time and with help and maturity I think even she would understand that and be productive in her own way. We can never be certain she didn't like the way it felt and that she would do it again for the "high". She has shown that she has no self control even when being counseled on the problem.

 

[LogicalMinds]

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Excellent post Danni

who would want Alyssa under their roof..in their neighborhood..ever??

I agree... I don't much care about her, her mental state...her meds...if she wants to scratch her arms up so be it...or put her in a straightjacket

I think she is disgusting...maybe there is such a thing as a "bad seed" or "resident evil" or whatever...I don't know

I find it even more frightning that some little twerps on the net are making "tributes" to her

what an insult to little Elizabeth, her memory, her family

 

[human]

I hope she will soon learn what it feels like-it feels like you're in prison for the rest of your life. No pool, no horses, no cell phone , no fun clothes, and hopefully no Facebook or MYSpace.

 

[Peace Lover]

Thank you for welcoming me here & all who’ve responded to my 1st post. I’m looking forward to exploring this issue & other issues with you further but I need to be absent from a computer for approximately 4 hours, when I come back I’ll be looking forward to anything else anyone has to say whether it’s a response to my post or not.

I agree with what you wrote that she had free will, a choice, and allegedly took actions based on her choice.

What I’m saying is that the capabilities of her decision making process, which formulates her decisions and choices, that precedes her physical actions, are that of a child/adolescent & IMO she should be tried in a court that recognizes this.

I wish I could write more now but I’ve things to do, “I’ll be back.”

Peace be with you