MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

[lawlady84]

I think this may be why AB's GPs aren't speaking out:

I hope they personally sent condolences to Elizabeth's family, but I am very happy they are staying out of the spotlight. They have 3 other children to look after. The children already have to live with the stigma that their sister is accused of brutal murder, lets hope it's not spread all over the world.

Since the GPs have a different last name than AB, I hope once this is all over the parents/GP/children agree to change the children's last names to the GPs. As long as they all keep out of the media, hopefully when they're older no one will immediately know what they're associated with.

 

[lawlady84]

Also, last thing, I am starting to feel like a hit and run poster with my schedule.

I am not surprised the lawyer motioned for her to be moved to the hospital. Although I really believe AB knew what she was doing and knew it was wrong, I doubt she realized the full consequences for her actions until she was certified as an adult. She *may* have thought she'd be treated as juvenile since she was under 16 and would be hospitalized at Prenger. If she was suicidal before, I'd imagine she became really suicidal when she realized she's going to be tried as an adult and can spend the rest of her life in prison.

Once she was certified she may have gone from just trying to cut herself to really physically harmful behavior- like smashing her head into the wall, trying to hang herself. Honestly my first thought when I read he motioned was that she needed to be physically restrained.

And I am not familiar with MO, but going to an institution for the criminally insane is not like going on vacation. If she is such a danger to herself as alleged, she'd probably going to be restrained fully. IMO I'd rather be allowed to walk around a jail cell than be tied to a hospital bed.

 

[Bibliophile]

Section 475.120.4 RSMO (2000) provides, "A guardian of an adult or minor ward is not obligated by virtue of such guardian's appointment to use the guardian's own financial resources for the support of the ward.

In terms of "supporting" the ward, i.e. Alyssa, the grandparents are not obligated to use thier funds to do anything for her. Thus, a determination of her financial resources would either fall on her, or back to the resources of her parents. Depending on Mother's circumstances, which are uknown to me, she she could be approved for PD representation, but she should not be denied based on GP's resources.

Hmmm ----- So it follows that had she remained a juvenile, she still would have been eligible for public defender services.

 

[Bibliophile]

I just hope someone does some real evaluation of her while there. She can say she is depressed all she wants. But her behaviour and ability to plan and perpetrate this act, indicate she is not suffering any psychosis or serious mood disorder. SHe was functioning very well, never missing school, etc. She has some conduct disorder which is going to blossom into a personality disorder someday. Cutting is all about borderline personality, and she is a sneaky manipulative, two-faced and very clever. She is playing a role. Someone needs to get to the bottom of her diagnosis.

I fully agree. I have some experience in this area and the rumors involving psychosis and SSRIs simply do not measure up to the facts.

You cannot selectively display psychosis or SSRI reactions. They don't have an "on and off" button. If she had been experiencing any severe cognitive disturbance she would not have been at school that day or even that week.

Although sociopath is no longer in the DSM IV and is now considered more of an anti-social personality disorder, the label is really inconsequential. She needs to be permanently removed from society.

 

[Turtles]

I wonder what has been found on her computer? We know she knew how to use one with the MS, FB, disturbing picture(s) and video(s). Wonder what kind of searches AB has made.

ETA/ I cannot fathom her defense being mental breakdown although it is the only shot AB's attorney has. AB just happened to dig 2 graves, and just happened to have a knife and the knowledge of how to strangle and stab poor Elizabeth. Alyssa needs to be locked up for the rest of her days on this earth.

 

[Bibliophile]

And I am not familiar with MO, but going to an institution for the criminally insane is not like going on vacation.

You can say that again, Lawlady. She may be begging to go back to her cozy little jail cell in Versailles.

I know of one case that we had here - male felon was completely psychotic, writing Bible verses and satanic references all over his apartment building, and was violent with officers. He was so psychotic he was urinating and soiling on himself in his jail cell. He was convicted and considered ineligible for services at Fulton because he was not severe enough!

This gives you an idea of what they keep at Fulton.

My guess is they will keep her under solitary observation because of her age. As I understand it, they really don't have any programs for teens or children.

 

[danni]

You can say that again, Lawlady. She may be begging to go back to her cozy little jail cell in Versailles.

I know of one case that we had here - male felon was completely psychotic, writing Bible verses and satanic references all over his apartment building, and was violent with officers. He was so psychotic he was urinating and soiling on himself in his jail cell. He was convicted and considered ineligible for services at Fulton because he was not severe enough!

This gives you an idea of what they keep at Fulton.

My guess is they will keep her under solitary observation because of her age. As I understand it, they really don't have any programs for teens or children.

As of noon today the judge had not placed an order for her transfer or done whatever she had to do to get her sent to biggs. The Associated Press put out a correction. So has anyone heard anything that they have actually got that order? I have been looking but can't find anything online. grr

 

[Bibliophile]

There were a few posts that she would be going to Biggs. She is not eligible for Biggs. You have to be convicted to get into Biggs.

She might go to something like a CRP (competency restoration program) but she cannot be with the "criminally" insane until she is a convicted criminal.

 

[vjlaw]

When and if a judge approves won't there be a docket entry stating that?

 

[human]

LMFAO!!!! Seriously!

Oh like Chicken Gonnagetcha (chicken catchatori), or Chicken I'mAfraidof (chicked alfrado), or the all purpose beef patty that may be a hamburger today, a salisbury steak another day, and the same patty will turn into a slab of meat loaf at the drop of a hat!

Where I live, we call the school lunch meat, "Mystery meat." Sometimes we call it "possum".

I'm sure there are equal dishes to where she is going.

 

[Csquare]

When and if a judge approves won't there be a docket entry stating that?

I am sure that would be the case.

 

[ynotdivein]

Clarification for an ex-Missourian please: Is Biggs the same as Fulton? TIA!

 

[danni]

Clarification for an ex-Missourian please: Is Biggs the same as Fulton? TIA!

Yep!
"The Biggs Forensic Center at Fulton State Hospital is unique in that it is the only maximum-security setting within the Missouri Department of Mental Health. Although it is a part of Fulton State Hospital, it is not confined to Fulton's service area of 31 counties, but rather its service area is the entire state."
http://www.dmh.mo.gov/fulton/treatment.htm

 

[vjlaw]

Clarification for an ex-Missourian please: Is Biggs the same as Fulton? TIA!

I am sure there are other's here more familiar with the correct description. But it is part of the Fulton Mental Hospital. Biggs Building or ward is for the worst of the worst, the criminally insane.

 

[MDATCA]

I wonder if there won't be many exceptions regarding Alyssa until she is of age. Though I don't undestand what difference it will make. She will be a target for many, many, years. She will be in a protected cell anyway so how is it not suitable for her. It is not as though she will be in the general population.

 

[Dal Gal]

Remember this:

It's not what the punishment will be; it is WILL I GET CAUGHT.

Alyssa did not think she'd get caught, cuz she only has a mind of a 15 year old. Young and invincible.

While I LOOOOVE the death penalty, that really is not what deters criminals. Getting caught is the biggest deterrant.

 

[impianoteach]

Biggs Forensic Center
The Biggs Forensic Center at Fulton State Hospital is unique in that it is the only maximum-security setting within the Missouri Department of Mental Health. Although it is a part of Fulton State Hospital, it is not confined to Fulton's service area of 31 counties, but rather its service area is the entire state.

Biggs is a 201 bed maximum-security psychiatric treatment facility, offering a variety of inpatient treatment services to male and female patients who have historically demonstrated dangerous behavior(s) toward others in combination with a serious psychiatric and/or personality disorder. These highly specialized services include pretrial evaluations and restoration to competency training as well as the four major treatment programs designed to serve those individuals committed for care and treatment. For those patients committed for treatment, the desired goal is progressive movement from a highly structured setting to a less restricted living situations such as the intermediate security unit at FSH.

In this manner, the patients are given the opportunity to move through a system specifically designed to provide them with an increased emphasis on demonstrating acceptable standards of social and behavioral responsibility. In addition to the four major treatment programs Biggs provides specialized Competency Restoration, and Pre-Trial Evaluations.

The Biggs Unit also includes 22 beds (18 male, 4 female) which are operated jointly by the Department of Mental Health and Department of Corrections (Biggs Correctional Treatment Unit). DOC admits inmates in need of psychiatric services within a secure setting.

Sounds like Biggs is where she is going to me.

 

[Bibliophile]

http://www.dmh.mo.gov/fulton/TreatmentPrograms_002.pdf

 

[SkewedView]

Hi all, I came upon this case a bit late, and took quite awhile catching up (finally am :woohoo, but while I was going through the threads, watching things develop, I kept getting this creepy feeling of deja-vu, didn't know where it came from - and then I read about Alyssa saying 'she just wanted to know what it would feel like to kill someone', and a chill went down my spine. This is soooo eerily similar to a case in Australia - the 2006 Eliza Jane Davis murder.


I'm assuming that only Aussies would be familiar, so here's a random article about it:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...der-pact-mystery/story-e6freuzi-1111113402489

(snipped, BBM)

EXPERTS are baffled why two teen girls made a cold-blooded pact to murder a 15-year-old friend, who they strangled and buried under her home, a court has heard.

The two 17-year-old girls, who cannot be named, appeared at Perth Children's Court for a sentencing hearing today after pleading guilty to murdering Eliza Jane Davis in the West Australian coal mining town of Collie on June 18, 2006.

Their two defence lawyers pointed to the girls' troubled pasts or drug use as mitigation for the murder.

Prosecutor Simon Stone has also told the court it appears the sadistic pair just wanted to experience killing someone....



Defence lawyer Gillian Braddock, SC, said her vulnerable client, who had lost both parents by the time she was 10, appeared to have been led by her co-accused, who has been described as a disturbed and angry young woman with a fascination with death....

But both girls played active roles in the murder – one strangling Eliza with speaker wire, while the other pressed a chemical-soaked cloth to Eliza's mouth as the girl struggled and begged for her life.

The girls reported Eliza missing after they buried her beneath her house and pretended to help her family look for the dead girl.

"We knew it was wrong, but it didn't feel wrong at all, it just felt right," one of the girls said in her police interview.

She said they did not really expect to get away with murder but felt killing Eliza was worth the risk.

Defence lawyer Michael Clarke said his client's unhappy and drug-riddled life was out of control by the time the murder occurred.....


But Mr Stone said that at no time had the girl admitted feeling sorry about the killing of Eliza.

He told the court yesterday that one of the girls had described watching Eliza's reactions change from anger, to fear, to the realisation that she was going to die, but did nothing to stop the murder....


(more in article)


Am I the only one that gets the heebee-jeebees from this?

 

[Bibliophile]

Bustamante's friend speaks out

"She was always so sweet and everybody loved her, she was just amazing," she said. "Who can really, honestly believe their friend would be a murderer?"

More at link -

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391