MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #11

[danni]

Look I am not trying to put you down. Let me ask you this...If you go into court with a client do you believe in there innocense? If not I can't see how you can effectivly represent them. All I am saying is that you have to twist turn and use things creativly to win at times.

If a defense att. walks into the court room throws the papers down and says lock him up. well I don't see that att. getting any more work.

I think exactly like you are saying no matter which side you are on you are going to use what is said against the other side as long as it works for you.

If you are getting paid by the pros. you are going to talk for that side. if you are getting paid by the defense you are going to talk for that side, if you do anything other you are in a sense cutting your own throat when it comes to being imployed!

 

[Csquare]

I deal with mentally ill people in my job every single day.

Then you should know that you can only do so much. There are people who are nutty than Grandma's fruitcake that you would never know it until it is too late. AB had been getting help. If it wasn't the help she needed then maybe she outsmarted them.

 

[danni]

Hey report all you want, I am simply not one to run to the authorties every time someone does or says something I dont agree with, I have better things to do with my time than stand at my kitchen window and make sure all my neighbors are living their lives in accord with my standards.

I find it incredibly funny that people think I have reported this video.

Just to let you know I haven't nor have I commented on it. you can look me up on youtube my screen name is danni42683 if you would like!

Everyone wants to portect the right of this girl but complain that someone reprots it! this is a two way street!

 

[Csquare]

Calling them names, bullying them and harassing them only servers to further lead them to believe that their own delusional view of the world is right since all the adults around them seem to be irresponsible and ireasonable what good would it do to change.

Perhaps if the adults would be more understanding, supportive, helpful and show more mercy and compassion these kids would understand that the world isnt the dark, bitter, jaded and cold place they believe it is.

When you have someone who commited such a henious, premeditated crime it is hard to have compassion.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I hope none of you are ever arrested and accused of a crime and the police have you in their interrogation room and they lie to you and tell you that your mother, father, grandmother, best friend and your pet mouse have all turned on you and admitted you were guility and that you better confess and make it easy on yourself so they can help you get out of the mess youre in, when in fact they dont have anything on you other than the fact that you have blonde hair and blue eyes and happened to have the day off work and shopped at Krogers the day it was robbed by someone who looks a little like you.

If that ever happens I hope you will swallow your pride and hatred of defense attorneys and keep your mouth shut until one of them can come and fight for you when everyone else has turned their backs on you and are convinced youre innocent just because Nancy Grace says so.

I hope that day never comes to any of you but if it does I hope you will understand the only person who will be your friend is the attorney who trained and committed to help you and who cares enough about you and your freedom that he or she will do or say whatever it takes to get you back home to your children and loved ones.

 

[Csquare]

I hope none of you are ever arrested and accused of a crime and the police have you in their interrogation room and they lie to you and tell you that your mother, father, grandmother, best friend and your pet mouse have all turned on you and admitted you were guility and that you better confess and make it easy on yourself so they can help you get out of the mess youre in, when in fact they dont have anything on you other than the fact that you have blonde hair and blue eyes and happened to have the day off work and shopped at Krogers the day it was robbed by someone who looks a little like you.

If that ever happens I hope you will swallow your pride and hatred of defense attorneys and keep your mouth shut until one of them can come and fight for you when everyone else has turned their backs on you and are convinced youre innocent just because Nancy Grace says so.

I hope that day never comes to any of you but if it does I hope you will understand the only person who will be your friend is the attorney who trained and committed to help you and who cares enough about you and your freedom that he or she will do or say whatever it takes to get you back home to your children and loved ones.

She confessed on her on free will. Where did that come from? And BTW if my mouse RATTED me out, I would squezze cheese whiz out of his behind until he turned smurf blue.

 

[PAXIMUS]

And yes forgiving people and having compassion for them, especially when they do NOT deserve it is very difficut but not everyone is like you and prefers to take the easy way out, some of us like the road less traveled and strive to do that which is not always easy for us to do.

Indeed it takes courage and strength to forgive and have compassion, any weakling can call for someones head and demand retribution and revenge, it takes a special person to try and see the best in someone when they are at their worst.

 

[danni]

I hope none of you are ever arrested and accused of a crime and the police have you in their interrogation room and they lie to you and tell you that your mother, father, grandmother, best friend and your pet mouse have all turned on you and admitted you were guility and that you better confess and make it easy on yourself so they can help you get out of the mess youre in, when in fact they dont have anything on you other than the fact that you have blonde hair and blue eyes and happened to have the day off work and shopped at Krogers the day it was robbed by someone who looks a little like you.

If that ever happens I hope you will swallow your pride and hatred of defense attorneys and keep your mouth shut until one of them can come and fight for you when everyone else has turned their backs on you and are convinced youre innocent just because Nancy Grace says so.

I hope that day never comes to any of you but if it does I hope you will understand the only person who will be your friend is the attorney who trained and committed to help you and who cares enough about you and your freedom that he or she will do or say whatever it takes to get you back home to your children and loved ones.

WOW WHO SAID WE HATED DEFENSE ATTORNEYS? LMFAO
I find this very funny!

I however hope none of you ever lose a child and know what that hurt feels like. I can tell you it isn't nice! Much worse than poor little Alyssa will ever know!

 

[not_my_kids]

Hey, I'm all for defense attorneys. Without them, the whole system falls apart. They are doing a rough job, and while I can't understand why someone would want to do that job, I see the necessity of having it done.

I don't think that anyone should be accused of having lacking objectivity due to their chosen profession.

 

[Csquare]

And yes forgiving people and having compassion for them, especially when they do NOT deserve it is very difficut but not everyone is like you and prefers to take the easy way out, some of us like the road less traveled and strive to do that which is not always easy for us to do.

Indeed it takes courage and strength to forgive and have compassion, any weakling can call for someones head and demand retribution and revenge, it takes a special person to try and see the best in someone when they are at their worst.

So you are saying that my opinion is wrong. I should feel sorry for her and hope she is released? You have an empty room to house her when she is let out?

 

[PAXIMUS]

She confessed on her on free will. Where did that come from? And BTW if my mouse RATTED me out, I would squezze cheese whiz out of his behind until he turned smurf blue.

It came from the hatred that I see on here towards those of us who feel it is important to protect those who are accused of crimes.

 

[PAXIMUS]

So you are saying that my opinion is wrong. I should feel sorry for her and hope she is released? You have an empty room to house her when she is let out?

She should not be released, if she is found guilty she should pay the price for it but that doesnt mean as many have said on here that "she cannot be fixed...ever" or "she is a monster" or "she should be fried." Etc.

Also you do not know the circumstances of her confession.

 

[danni]

It came from the hatred that I see on here towards those of us who feel it is important to protect those who are accused of crimes.

how did her confession have anything to do with a defense attorney or suposed hatred towards them?
I don't get the punch line!

 

[danni]

She should not be released, if she is found guilty she should pay the price for it but that doesnt mean as many have said on here that "she cannot be fixed...ever" or "she is a monster" or "she should be fried." Etc.

Also you do not know the circumstances of her confession.

but that is OUR OPINION. and per FOS we can VOICE OUR OPINION SO WHAT GIVES? ARE WE WRONG BECAUSE WE HAVE AN OPINION OR BECAUSE WE VOICE IT OR JUST BECAUE OUR OPINIONS DIFFER FROM YOURS?
Which is it? just so I know not to make the same mistake again!

 

[Csquare]

It came from the hatred that I see on here towards those of us who feel it is important to protect those who are accused of crimes.

But it is ok for you to HATE my opinion for wanting justice, but I am supposed to sing kumbaya to your opinion? Hate to tell you this but it aint gonna happen.

 

[ynotdivein]

Zesty thread tonight, all! Diving into this one... :Banane59:

PAX, thank you for the work you do. Defense folks get a really bad rap, yet are central to keeping us from sliding into a very scary potential future. We have the lessons of history to remind us of why we have developed the system we currently use. As a relatively new WSer and one with minimal legal experience, I appreciate hearing from people with experience on all sides of the courtroom.

Any citizen should know how to invoke their rights: "Can I go now? Am I under arrest?" And if so, "I choose to remain silent and I'd like to see a lawyer." Any suspect, whether eventually determined to be actually guilty or actually innocent, should be able to invoke their rights without it causing a presumption of guilt. May none of us ever need a defense lawyer, but if it becomes necessary, "I choose to remain silent, I want to see a lawyer" is the fastest track to one, unless you already have someone on retainer... :dance:

The free speech/YouTube item seems to have died down and I don't want to fan the flames, but in brief emocuppycake is well within her rights and the YT TOS. Given the impact this case has had especially in the local community, it seems the best we can do is hope that we are not alone in our concern that she is getting adequate emotional/psychological support.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Look I am not trying to put you down. Let me ask you this...If you go into court with a client do you believe in there innocense? If not I can't see how you can effectivly represent them. All I am saying is that you have to twist turn and use things creativly to win at times.

My job isn't about winning. It's about making sure justice is served. If my client tells me he is guilty, I will advise him to plead guilty and I will represent them to make sure they get a fair sentence. If the client tells me he is innocent, I will do everything I can to make sure they are found innocent. If I find out my client is lying to me, I leave the case.

 

[KBL100]

I'm lost with the last few pages here. It seems we suddenly have a couple(?) of attorneys posting. Is that correct? Could someone clarify? TIA

 

[Csquare]

My job isn't about winning. It's about making sure justice is served. If my client tells me he is guilty, I will advise him to plead guilty and I will represent them to make sure they get a fair sentence. If the client tells me he is innocent, I will do everything I can to make sure they are found innocent. If I find out my client is lying to me, I leave the case.

That is really all I was trying to say. Maybe I didn't say it as eloquant as you but I tink you knew what I was saying.

I respect your opinion, may not agree with it. We can deabate this all night and never get anywhere.

 

[Csquare]

My job isn't about winning. It's about making sure justice is served. If my client tells me he is guilty, I will advise him to plead guilty and I will represent them to make sure they get a fair sentence. If the client tells me he is innocent, I will do everything I can to make sure they are found innocent. If I find out my client is lying to me, I leave the case.

you say you work with mentally ill people every day....You never did answer me when I asked if any of them ever fooled you?