MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #13

[Prof]

Just curious, How do we know the gender of Jan King? When the PD was first appointed I tried to find out, but I failed lol

BTW, does anyone know how or exactly when Valentine got involved? I know he's not a PD, and I have seen rumors about the type of lawyer he is; he obviously did not stick with the case for some reason or another -- just curious

 

[Csquare]

MOO – If we are going to be paying for her either way, I’d rather see that she is in an institution. Just so she can be studied and possibly treated. The more we know about what makes the killer I believe the better chances we have from preventing a murder in the future. I know many of you may not agree with me and that’s okay…

Your statement does make sense. I understand what you are saying. I would prefer her doing hard time but that is just moo

 

[Prof]

MOO – If we are going to be paying for her either way, I’d rather see that she is in an institution. Just so she can be studied and possibly treated. The more we know about what makes the killer I believe the better chances we have from preventing a murder in the future. I know many of you may not agree with me and that’s okay…

I wholeheartedly agree, and hope this is the outcome

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Just curious, How do we know the gender of Jan King? When the PD was first appointed I tried to find out, but I failed lol

BTW, does anyone know how or exactly when Valentine got involved? I know he's not a PD, and I have seen rumors about the type of lawyer he is; he obviously did not stick with the case for some reason or another -- just curious

http://www.vbwr.com/bio-valentine.html

His professional profile

AREAS OF PRACTICE
Mr. Valentine’s focus is primarily in the areas of commercial litigation and business litigation.

 

[vjlaw]

Just curious, How do we know the gender of Jan King? When the PD was first appointed I tried to find out, but I failed lol

BTW, does anyone know how or exactly when Valentine got involved? I know he's not a PD, and I have seen rumors about the type of lawyer he is; he obviously did not stick with the case for some reason or another -- just curious

Well, I have looked at him from the jury box.

 

[Csquare]

Well, I have looked at him from the jury box.

Can you give us your impression of him? What is his demeanor, is he good, and so forth. TIA

 

[Prof]

IMO

If LE had a POI or any clue that Elizabeth was in the woods murdered before Friday, then the Sheriff has explicitly lied to the press on many occasions -- I would prefer to think that he was not lying, and that they did not have a person of interest until Friday -- if they did have a POI before Friday, he has lost more credibility in my eyes for the outright lies, than he would have for any mistakes they might have made in this case
AGAIN IMO

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Your statement does make sense. I understand what you are saying. I would prefer her doing hard time but that is just moo

Is there any way that she could do hard time and still be studied?? Maybe during her sentence she speaks with doctors and criminologists and they try to comprehend what went wrong?

I'm sure someone's going to want to write a book or make a movie or make some money on this in some way.. And we know that those types of studies are not always accurate or beneficial to anyone involved. Any whack-a-doo can write a story and get it published.. I was just think about maybe a serious study on Alyssa and what really happened to her from an actual doctor, however even then, I still think that most of it will be what he infers.. which could always be wrong..

moo...

 

[W8nC]

So here is the story as we know it now, she didnt have an attorney BY THE TIME of the arraignment so its safe to say that she didnt have one at the time of LE questioning when she gave her statement and confession.

The Supreme court has ruled that a minor CAN waive their right to an attorney as I quoted in another post I will repeat here:




Given that we know she spent time in a mental facility just prior to being questioned by police I would argue that she doesnt meet THIS TEST because she may not have been mentally competent enough to appreciate the consequences of waiving her right to representation and therefore I conclude, given the facts at this time, that everything involving AB as a suspect is fruit of the poison tree and should be inadmissable which basically leaves the state with no case. I sure hope her attorney knows what she is doing.

************And yes I am jumping to conclusions and assuming some things not on record but this is all just for the sake of discussion since we dont know all the facts yet.

Bolded statement above is not accurate. She was in a mental hospital in fall of 2007, after her suicide attempt. She was again sent to a mental health facility on Saturday, the day AFTER she was questioned by police.

 

[vjlaw]

Can you give us your impression of him? What is his demeanor, is he good, and so forth. TIA

I wouldn't say he is someone with fire in the belly. But the bottom line for me was what he said was true. It has been a couple years. His hair is a little tossled, wears glasses, quieter voice. I would probably describe him as a little disheveled looking. Maybe a bit tired from a few years of doing this. jmo

 

[Csquare]

Is there any way that she could do hard time and still be studied?? Maybe during her sentence she speaks with doctors and criminologists and they try to comprehend what went wrong?

I'm sure someone's going to want to write a book or make a movie or make some money on this in some way.. And we know that those types of studies are not always accurate or beneficial to anyone involved. Any whack-a-doo can write a story and get it published.. I was just think about maybe a serious study on Alyssa and what really happened to her from an actual doctor, however even then, I still think that most of it will be what he infers.. which could always be wrong..

moo...

Unless AB really wants to open up and tell the truth I am not sure we will ever know the real truth on why she did what she did.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Unless AB really wants to open up and tell the truth I am not sure we will ever know the real truth on why she did what she did.

Oh sure we do... She just wanted to know what it felt like.. :croc:

j/k

 

[PAXIMUS]

If she is to be in custody of some kind for the rest of her life why pump money into "fixing" her?

How about using that money to "fix" people walking around that have not commited crimes. Ya know like people who can not afford 2 grand a freaking month for cancer meds.

We obviously have a difference of opinion and different levels of compassion when it comes to the desire to rehabilitate over incarcerate and that is ok, I am trying not to turn this in to a flame fest but just for your information she may NOT be put away the rest of her life:

See: Graham v. Florida and Sullivan v. Florida these cases are currently before the Supreme Court and deal with whether its in violation of the 8th amendment for someone under the age of 18 can be sentenced to LWOP.

That being the case I prefer people like AB, as young as they are, get rehabilitated instead of locked up and forgotten, thats just who I am and I tend to have compassion for people like her and do not get any pleasure at the thought of locking her up and throwing away the key.

TY AE.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Bolded statement above is not accurate. She was in a mental hospital in fall of 2007, after her suicide attempt. She was again sent to a mental health facility on Saturday, the day AFTER she was questioned by police.

Yes I just relooked at the time line and saw that but the fact that they saw fit to send her to a mental facility after questioning her still brings up the possibility that she wasnt mentally capable of appreciating the consequences of waiving her right to an attorney assuming she did and she does NOT meet the test of the Supreme Court for what is acceptable for a minor to do such.

 

[Csquare]

Bolded statement above is not accurate. She was in a mental hospital in fall of 2007, after her suicide attempt. She was again sent to a mental health facility on Saturday, the day AFTER she was questioned by police.

In my experience as a corrections officer, if an inmate says they are suicidal or show signs of it, we would take precautionary measures. I am sure taking her on Sat was just that and no indication she didn't know what she had done.

 

[mominjc]

I just spoke with a relative who is a Missouri State Highway Patrol Criminal Investigator. His co-worker was the one who was involved with the questioning of AB. I asked him if an attorney was not present when AB was questioned by MSHP would the confession be thrown out. He stated that's not true. It won't get thrown out, period! So IMHO the MSHP knew exactly what they were doing while questioning AB and did not violate her constitutional rights.

 

[Csquare]

I just spoke with a relative who is a Missouri State Highway Patrol Criminal Investigator. His co-worker was the one who was involved with the questioning of AB. I asked him if an attorney was not present when AB was questioned by MSHP would the confession be thrown out. He stated that's not true. It won't get thrown out, period! So IMHO the MSHP knew exactly what they were doing while questioning AB and did not violate her constitutional rights.

Good info mominjc. That is what I was hoping for.

 

[LadyBug99]

We obviously have a difference of opinion and different levels of compassion when it comes to the desire to rehabilitate over incarcerate and that is ok, I am trying not to turn this in to a flame fest but just for your information she may NOT be put away the rest of her life:

See: Graham v. Florida and Sullivan v. Florida these cases ae currently before the Supreme Court and deal with whether its in violation of the 8th amendment for someone under the age of 18 can be sentenced to LWOP.

That being the case I prefer people like AB, as young as they are, get rehabilitated instead of locked up and forgotten, thats just who I am and I tend to have compassion for people like her and do not get any pleasure at the thought of locking her up and throwing away the key.

I agree with you on many points. However, I don't know if anyone can know for sure that she can be rehabilitated. Either way any insight into the mind of a killer can do nothing but benifit society. MOO. People say that she is "evil" and I'm not ready to believe that just yet. With that being said...I do NOT people here to think that I'm "siding" with AB. What she did there is NO excuse for.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

We obviously have a difference of opinion and different levels of compassion when it comes to the desire to rehabilitate over incarcerate and that is ok, I am trying not to turn this in to a flame fest but just for your information she may NOT be put away the rest of her life:

See: Graham v. Florida and Sullivan v. Florida these cases ae currently before the Supreme Court and deal with whether its in violation of the 8th amendment for someone under the age of 18 can be sentenced to LWOP.

That being the case I prefer people like AB, as young as they are, get rehabilitated instead of locked up and forgotten, thats just who I am and I tend to have compassion for people like her and do not get any pleasure at the thought of locking her up and throwing away the key.

May I ask, who decides if & when Alyssa is rehabilitated? Obviously the last 3 or so years of therapy & medication have not helped her. When do we as a public get to say that these people are dangerous. She has killed pretty much just for sh*ts and giggles, according to her.. How do you fix that?? She seems to be a manipulator, people around her never knew the serious state of her mental health, including her doctors, friends, or family.... Has anyone even found out what her actual diagnosis was? What if in 10, 15, or 20 years someone decides Alyssa is now fine? Then they release her and she kills again? It's happened numerous times, not only with killers, but rapists too.

 

[W8nC]

Yes I just relooked at the time line and saw that but the fact that they saw fit to send her to a mental facility after questioning her still brings up the possibility that she wasnt mentally capable of appreciating the consequences of waiving her right to an attorney assuming she did and she does NOT meet the test of the Supreme Court for what is acceptable for a minor to do such.

They probably sent her there for evaluation, which could have come out either way....that she WAS mentally capable or WAS NOT.

We can't assume we know which way that came out.