MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #7

[impianoteach]

Maybe the soil was well composted and soft--if it was among tree roots and under a canopy of trees.

We had the 3rd wettest October on record in Missouri this year. The ground was/is saturated and soft.

 

[Flashforward]

These were country kids, probably spending a great deal of their free time outdoors, with the horses, in the woods, riding ATVs, etc. I know I wouldn't be suspicious if my kids came in dirty after playing outside.

I wouldn't exactly call these kids country kids... although I didn't know them or the family personally -- we are talking 5 minutes tops out of Jeff City... and even though Jeff isn't huge I would say there isn't a lot of country type people here unless you go farther out say like the California/Tipton area.

 

[littlek89]

I wouldn't exactly call these kids country kids... although I didn't know them or the family personally -- we are talking 5 minutes tops out of Jeff City... and even though Jeff isn't huge I would say there isn't a lot of country type people here unless you go farther out say like the California/Tipton area.

Yeah, this could be true. Although I'm from a pretty big city in NY, in a sort of suburban area, and you still find areas like EO's neighborhood: a lot of land, some wooded spots, plenty of room for kids to run around and play.
But honestly, AB doesn't seem like the type of teenager who was going out in the woods and playing and getting dirty very often, IMO. Does she seem like the outdoorsy type to anyone? I'm sure it would have probably raised suspicions if her family had seen her coming in all dirty. My point is, I think she was sneaky enough to avoid being discovered by them.

 

[Capri]

Are people allowed to post rumors yet??? I am a bit confused I have been reading here since day one and it seems as if some are allowed to post rumors and not be in trouble while when others do they get a time out. Others claim they know the family but if you look at all the post some of the post seem to contradict one another... or maybe it just seems that way to me-- I could be wrong.

I live in the Jeff City area and am familiar with all the talk that is going on. First off let me start by saying the weather during the events was nasty, cloudy, rainy, soggy. If/when AB did kill EO there is no way she could have came back to the house without some sort of indication she was in the woods. I also don't think there is any way she could have drug the body (well at least not by herself) so I am going to guess she some how tricked her to somewhere close to the grave. Also if she did have to drag her I really think the dogs would have caught onto the scent but maybe I am wrong about that. The story about the 2 graves has been floating in this area since the day they found EO... and there is more to that if we have a rumor thread.

ILC contacted the site owner, Tricia, and was "verified", and it seems they have a lot of personal knowledge of the accused and the family. But generally, no rumors, unless Tricia posts them from one of her Long-standing sources. Even more complicated, b/c of the accused being a minor.

 

[Capri]

Yeah, this could be true. Although I'm from a pretty big city in NY, in a sort of suburban area, and you still find areas like EO's neighborhood: a lot of land, some wooded spots, plenty of room for kids to run around and play.
But honestly, AB doesn't seem like the type of teenager who was going out in the woods and playing and getting dirty very often, IMO. Does she seem like the outdoorsy type to anyone? I'm sure it would have probably raised suspicions if her family had seen her coming in all dirty. My point is, I think she was sneaky enough to avoid being discovered by them.

If she rides the horses, I can see her coming in dirty, no questions asked.

 

[NewMommy09]

I'm curious to know if there were any defensive wounds on AB, and if there were signs (i.e. skin under fingernails, etc.) that Elizabeth fought her murderer.
In the scheme of things, I suppose it doesn't matter for any reason other than being more evidence against AB at trial.
I guess I would just like to know that Elizabeth fought for her life and didn't make it easy for her killer.

 

[Deleted member 718]

If she rides the horses, I can see her coming in dirty, no questions asked.

Me too Capri. I can even she her coming in with scratches saying it was from riding into briers.

 

[Bewildered]

I'm curious to know if there were any defensive wounds on AB, and if there were signs (i.e. skin under fingernails, etc.) that Elizabeth fought her murderer.
In the scheme of things, I suppose it doesn't matter for any reason other than being more evidence against AB at trial.
I guess I would just like to know that Elizabeth fought for her life and didn't make it easy for her killer.

I hope Elizabeth had the chance to fight back. Sadly, if indeed she was strangled, (makes me sick typing this) it may have been from behind and she didn't even see it coming or have a chance..

 

[MDATCA]

These were country kids, probably spending a great deal of their free time outdoors, with the horses, in the woods, riding ATVs, etc. I know I wouldn't be suspicious if my kids came in dirty after playing outside.

Exactly my thought. If she had been riding horses or even caring for them she would be sweaty and muddy.

 

[Prof]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovecookies
AB was in the house. I've said all this before, when asked if she wanted to go I was told she said "No I want to take a shower".


Prof: ILC I understand that it may be frustrating being asked the same questions over and over again; however, this is an asynchronous discussion --- many of us are not here at the same time as you are, and if you delete as many original posts as you do, it makes it very difficult to follow ---- it also might be confusing to us because when we do get tidbits of information from you it is quoted out of context --- meaning that we cannot see what it is you are responding to and your posts do not always stand alone

As you can see, many are interested in what you have to say and appreciate your point of view in this case

It might be less frustrating for you if you edit posts instead of deleting them --- IDK; it's just a suggestion as the post above shows some frustration

 

[Capri]

I hope Elizabeth had the chance to fight back. Sadly, if indeed she was strangled, (makes me sick typing this) it may have been from behind and she didn't even see it coming or have a chance..

I hope she was able to fight back too, but the age difference is huge. A 9 year old is no match for a 15 year old.

 

[W8nC]

I heard she did have an ATV. I never heard anything about her riding horses until this all happened and I saw it online. ILC can verify, but wasn't there an outside entrance from the basement of the house that she could use to get in & out without being noticed?

That "No, I want to take a shower" excuse sounds like a typical teenage girl line. They probably didn't think it was out of the ordinary at all, whether she was muddy/sweaty or not.

If she's a cutter, as it's been reported, scratches and such wouldn't be as noticeable.

I wonder at the report that she was strangles with a silk scarf. EO's family wasn't well off, so her scarf she was wearing that day would more likely be knit. AB might have had a silk scarf, but more likely, the "silk" part isn't accurate, is my guess.

 

[Prof]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovecookies
AB was in the house. I've said all this before, when asked if she wanted to go I was told she said "No I want to take a shower".

Prof: I think it is a little odd that AB was "asked if she wanted to go"

If LE had already been to the perp's house, as it was the last place Elizabeth was known to be, I would think that the family would be either
1 - worried that if there was foul play involved, a kidnapper or worse might still be lurking in the area, and they (gps) are about to leave a child alone at home!
2 - concerned and want to do everything possible to help LE and Elizabeth's family, and therefore take all involved over to be of some help, not ask any of the children if they want to help or not !

IDK -- asking AB if she wanted to come sounds like the gps were going out to get ice cream; it just seems to me that asking if one wants to go in this circumstance seems to odd

I suppose that is just my upbringing --

(Please understand that I am not implicating anyone in anything, but simply trying to understand how this could have all played out)

 

[lishac23]

I've been off websleuths the last couple days ill and have spent most of my "free" time today trying to catch up on the lastest info.
I read that AB, EO, and the 6 yo friend were in the woods together and AB walked her partially home and then returned to the woods. The events after have been pretty scattered can anyone fill me in on what the consensus has been. Did AB return home at some point that evening or was she missing until she was found out school the next day?

 

[iamhere]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovecookies
AB was in the house. I've said all this before, when asked if she wanted to go I was told she said "No I want to take a shower".

Prof: I think it is a little odd that AB was "asked if she wanted to go"

If LE had already been to the perp's house, as it was the last place Elizabeth was known to be, I would think that the family would be either
1 - worried that if there was foul play involved a kidnapper or worse could still be lurking in the area and they are about to leave a child alone at home
2 - concerned and want to do everything possible to help LE and Elizabeth's family, and therefore take all involved over to be of some help, not ask any of the children if they want to help or not

IDK -- asking AB if she wanted to come sounds like the gps were going out to get ice cream; it just seems to me that asking if one wants to go in this circumstance seems to odd

I suppose that is just my upbringing --

(Please understand that I am not implicating anyone in anything, but simply trying to understand how this could have all played out)

Prof- I wholeheartedly agree. There just seems to be some odd stuff going on. The family knew that both of their girls had been in the woods. They knew that AB brought the 6 yr. old up most of the way and then went back. I don't know if they knew that EO was in the woods or not.

Given this information I would want AB to come with me to the Olten's to provide any information that she had. I would be asking her all kinds of questions just because she was outside at the time. If it was my granddaughter I would be questioning her about everything, but I wouldnt' suspect her of anything. I would just want to know anything that she might know.

 

[lishac23]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovecookies
AB was in the house. I've said all this before, when asked if she wanted to go I was told she said "No I want to take a shower".

Prof: I think it is a little odd that AB was "asked if she wanted to go"

If LE had already been to the perp's house, as it was the last place Elizabeth was known to be, I would think that the family would be either
1 - worried that if there was foul play involved, a kidnapper or worse might still be lurking in the area, and they (gps) are about to leave a child alone at home!
2 - concerned and want to do everything possible to help LE and Elizabeth's family, and therefore take all involved over to be of some help, not ask any of the children if they want to help or not !

IDK -- asking AB if she wanted to come sounds like the gps were going out to get ice cream; it just seems to me that asking if one wants to go in this circumstance seems to odd

I suppose that is just my upbringing --

(Please understand that I am not implicating anyone in anything, but simply trying to understand how this could have all played out)

I agree. I think there are a lot of gaps in the story and getting bits and pieces from different sources has created some confusion.

I would assume that if EO's mother knew where she was playing that when she didn't return home that would be the first people she contacted (I've read reports that LE were called first). I can't imagine that she would call LE to report her daughter missing without first checking AB's house to see if she was there. WOuldn't the GP's have asked everyone in the house had they seen her? Does anyone know what intial info was given to explain why LE immediately began searching the woods?

 

[Dal Gal]

Was it actually raining at the time that the girls were outdoors playing? Even if it's just muddy, the woods don't seem like a great place to be playing. Why play outdoors at all?

 

[Tricia]

Are people allowed to post rumors yet??? I am a bit confused I have been reading here since day one and it seems as if some are allowed to post rumors and not be in trouble while when others do they get a time out. Others claim they know the family but if you look at all the post some of the post seem to contradict one another... or maybe it just seems that way to me-- I could be wrong.

I live in the Jeff City area and am familiar with all the talk that is going on. First off let me start by saying the weather during the events was nasty, cloudy, rainy, soggy. If/when AB did kill EO there is no way she could have came back to the house without some sort of indication she was in the woods. I also don't think there is any way she could have drug the body (well at least not by herself) so I am going to guess she some how tricked her to somewhere close to the grave. Also if she did have to drag her I really think the dogs would have caught onto the scent but maybe I am wrong about that. The story about the 2 graves has been floating in this area since the day they found EO... and there is more to that if we have a rumor thread.

I am glad you brought this up. What I have posted came from a source that I trust.

Right now there are tons of rumors flying around and I hate seeing Websleuths turned into posts with tons of rumors. People then take rumors as fact and everything gets messed up.

I Love Cookies has been verified by me as someone who knows the family. Therefore what ILC posts is based on direct information.

If you want to post information based on how close you live by the perp that's great. Also, posting theories is a great way to go through the evidence.

The only reason we have a rumor thread on the Haleigh Cummings case is because so many, I mean a huge amount, of locals were posting. They all knew the family in some way. We have that rumor thread in the private area of the forum.

I do not want to see this case become another Haleigh case on Websleuths by starting a rumor thread. A rumor thread has to be moderated very closely and we don't have the mods nor the time to do that now.

Let's try something a bit different. If you are a local and you have heard a rumor you think is worth repeating then you can post it on Websleuths as long as it is clearly marked rumor and as long as it doesn't violate TOS.

We will not allow any innocent names to be used. Just because someone knows the family or whatever does not mean they can be thrown out on the Internet.

OK here is the deal. If you are a local and you have heard a rumor that is not ridiculous post it clearly as a rumor.

I won't check if you say you are a local. This is different than saying you know the family.

If this doesn't work out because people start relying on rumors or repeating rumors as fact we will change it back.

If anyone has any questions go ahead and ask me, PM me or email me at [email protected]

 

[iamhere]

I agree. I think there are a lot of gaps in the story and getting bits and pieces from different sources has created some confusion.

I would assume that if EO's mother knew where she was playing that when she didn't return home that would be the first people she contacted (I've read reports that LE were called first). I can't imagine that she would call LE to report her daughter missing without first checking AB's house to see if she was there. WOuldn't the GP's have asked everyone in the house had they seen her? Does anyone know what intial info was given to explain why LE immediately began searching the woods?

I am not sure that the parents knew EO was at AB's. The 6 year old was in the woods when she wasn't supposed to be. Therefore, I don't know that the grandparents knew EO was there, and I don't know that EO's mom knew she was at AB's. The three girls may have met up in the woods themselves.

Now that was pure speculation. I have seen several people say that the grandparents didn't know EO was there. If that is true, EO's mom could have been in the same boat. EO's mom could have thought that she was in the woods, but knew nothing more.

That day was probably the only day that week it didn't rain here. It was actually very nice that day, which is why kids were playing out side. They had been couped up for the last several days.

 

[Csquare]

One of the things I am having a hard time understand is if EO's mom had called for her to come home and she hadn't arrived by a reasonable time, why didn't she call AB's house to check and make sure she had left instead of just calling the police first.
Wouldn't it make sense to double check before getting the police involed unless you had already suspected something.