MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #7

[SereneOne]

Wonder why it is taking so long to decided if they are going to try her as an adult.

In the case of 4yr old Alex (found in the dryer last week) the perp was 14 yrs old been in custody since friday i think. monday or Tuesday they made the decision to try him as an adult. that was in Cali..come on MO get with the program.

Under MO law, the process to get a juvenile certified as an adult requires the juvenile court judge to first give notice of and then hold a hearing at which a long list of criteria are evaluated. Statute requires that before the hearing, a report must be prepared that fully develops "all available information" for the court to consider, based on such documents as police reports and witness statements. Notice of hearing must also be given to the prosecuting attorney of the circuit (adult) court, and he/she must be given access to all pertinent documents before the certification hearing. I assume the Nov. date was chosen because the hearing is mandatory and time was needed for all to prepare.

 

[Jules71]

Ok, my brain is absolutely fried and I am no longer seeing straight - not to mention my family is getting really tired of my absence -- so good night all!

At this point I really don't think any calls were made either way - it bothers me though because it looks like I am the first one to say I read that E called her mom on the way home. If I said I read it, I read it dang it! I just don't know where I read it. I would have thought I read it here on WS, I could almost swear I did. I will look with fresh eyes tomorrow.

 

[everyoneneedsavoice]

This might help...although this conflicts somewhat with some "local" info...according to E's aunt on Nancy Grace (transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0910/27/ng.01.html)

GRACE: When did you first discover that Elizabeth was missing?

OLTEN: Her oldest sister called me about 7:00 o`clock and told me they couldn`t find her and that they were out looking for her, that she was headed to her mother`s house. And then they went up to the other house where she was supposed to be playing and they said she wasn`t there.


still searching...i'll post anything else I find...

 

[Prof]

Elizabeth's family told ABC that suspect called Elizabeth to invite her back, oh and also the family spokesperson told news that Elizabeth was a "girly girl"
Here is the link http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8934228

I know that I remember right around the 22nd or 23rd hearing something about Elizabeth being sent home by the gps -- trying to find the news source

 

[lajr56]

Elizabeth's family told ABC that suspect called Elizabeth to invite her back, oh and also the family spokesperson told news that Elizabeth was a "girly girl"
Here is the link http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8934228

I know that I remember right around the 22nd or 23rd hearing something about Elizabeth being sent home by the gps -- trying to find the news source

I'm trying to find the same thing. I could swear that I read specifically that it was the Grandfather that sent EO home.

 

[mia g]

In thread 2, post 549 I said "read that she did call her Mom and say she was on her way". Where did I read this?

Then in thread 5 I think, someone else says it the other way around - that Mom called E and told her to come home.

I am not finding anything concrete about who called who if in fact a call was made.

I first HEARD that there was a "call" on NG. I heard this like Tuesday 27nd. BUT I can not remember for the life of me exactly what was said about the call. I have tried and tried to remember. So I have searched news articles for information on a call, and can not find that either.

Theories I have read (but can not remember where)

EO called her mom and said "something happened" and she was headed home
AB's gpa told EO's mom(on phone) he was sending her home
EO just called and told mom she was coming home.(i think this was what I heard on NG)
EO's mom talked to ABs gpa and he told her EO left there at about 615
also read there was a call, and EO was coming home at aprox 615

Since this has been blogged about everywhere and I feel sure I have read most all of it. I have seen all of these mentioned several times, and also seen many people saying one or all are not true.

 

[lajr56]

This is a statement about the terrain from a neighbor who helped in the search.

"Schulte, who had helped with the search, said the area around where the phone was transmitting signals was about one-quarter of a mile away from the county highway and in the middle of the woods. He said it is easy to get turned around and difficult to hold straight search lines because the terrain is all "ridges and valleys" along with brambles.----

"You'd have to want to be back there," said Schulte, before police announced that Elizabeth's body had been found.---

That last sentence creeped me out.

 

[Capri]

Elizabeth's family told ABC that suspect called Elizabeth to invite her back, oh and also the family spokesperson told news that Elizabeth was a "girly girl"
Here is the link http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8934228

I know that I remember right around the 22nd or 23rd hearing something about Elizabeth being sent home by the gps -- trying to find the news source

.........................................................................
ABC definitely stated that the suspect called E to "invite her back"

 

[mia g]

http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-cole-county-missing-olten-elizabeth-102209,0,89862.story

With the official press release stating the "last seen" time as b/t 6:00 & 6:15.

"Press Release From Cole County Sheriff's Department:

The search for a missing girl continues. Elizabeth Olton, a 9 year old white female, is missing from Route D near St. Martin's. She was last seen in the 600 Block of Route D between 6:00 and 6:15 pm on 21 October 2009. She was heading home (200 Block) and when she had not reached home the Cole County Sheriff's Department was notified at 6:56 pm. She was last seen wearing a pink scarf, a pink shirt with butterflies, a pink sweater, blue jeans, and white sneakers."

On this news post, if you read the comments a lady claiming to be local and knows EO's mom..says.. " P**** did not even know E was being sent home.. Now how true that is we may never no.. But it is posted on 10/22..so there starts rumor #1(part in quote paraphrased by me)

 

[littlek89]

This isn't any new info/theory on the case, but still, just need to get it out there.
A commercial for the United Children's Fund just played on my TV. The opening line: "Tonight, all of the children in your neighborhood will go to sleep safe and sound."
Such an ironic statement, especially because the past weeks have proven, in many places, this is not the case. Children murdered and thrown in landfills, sexually assaulted, buried in dirt graves or stuffed into dryers by teenage neighbors, gangraped outside of their high schools.
I don't know, I know my sentiments are echoing throughout all of the threads here, but it is sickening and it leaves me with this helpless feeling. And I know we're all here because we feel the same way, but it gets to me that all this sleuthing happens because of events so tragic...in the aftermath of the evil. We can't prevent them, we can just find the facts and watch and hope that some sort of justice is brought, but I don't think "justice" is possible when such profoundly unjust things are happening.
They can send AB to prison...and legally, justice will have been served. But the reality is that AB is a child herself, and she has been in danger for a long time it seems. And other teens out there are in danger. I guess it's a tragedy on all sides, as many have pointed out. I just can't wrap my head around it...

RIP, Elizabeth...

 

[impianoteach]

I first HEARD that there was a "call" on NG. I heard this like Tuesday 27nd. BUT I can not remember for the life of me exactly what was said about the call. I have tried and tried to remember. So I have searched news articles for information on a call, and can not find that either.

Theories I have read (but can not remember where)

EO called her mom and said "something happened" and she was headed home
AB's gpa told EO's mom(on phone) he was sending her home
EO just called and told mom she was coming home.(i think this was what I heard on NG)
EO's mom talked to ABs gpa and he told her EO left there at about 615
also read there was a call, and EO was coming home at aprox 615

Since this has been blogged about everywhere and I feel sure I have read most all of it. I have seen all of these mentioned several times, and also seen many people saying one or all are not true.

For what it is worth, I am a local yokel and they did report on the news early on that Elizabeth's mother called her and told her to come home, it was getting dark.

 

[ynotdivein]

...I don't know, I know my sentiments are echoing throughout all of the threads here, but it is sickening and it leaves me with this helpless feeling. And I know we're all here because we feel the same way, but it gets to me that all this sleuthing happens because of events so tragic...in the aftermath of the evil. We can't prevent them, we can just find the facts and watch and hope that some sort of justice is brought, but I don't think "justice" is possible when such profoundly unjust things are happening.
They can send AB to prison...and legally, justice will have been served. But the reality is that AB is a child herself, and she has been in danger for a long time it seems. And other teens out there are in danger. I guess it's a tragedy on all sides, as many have pointed out. I just can't wrap my head around it...

RIP, Elizabeth...

(emphasis added)

littlek, I'm with you. I will share that the time in my life when I was best able to handle this kind of news about teens was when I was teaching teens. This might seem paradoxical. There were "bad apples" of course, but it was so inspiring to also see the amazing things that teens accomplish, sometimes against remarkable odds, sometimes even when they are labeled "bad apples." Case in point: the high schoolers near me who are rallying to support their classmate who was brutalized at her homecoming dance. The ex-classmate who finally called 911.

I wish that AB had had what she needed growing up--but also know that good mentors and good teachers can never resolve deep-seated dysfunctions. I know AB needs compassion right now, and that this may not be a popular thing to say, let alone for her to accept. I don't think she's redeemable, don't want her in society again, and do want her eventually to take responsibility for what she has done. But as you point out, she is herself a child. Justice may be blind, but compassion sees clearly.

 

[Prof]

Timelines and phone calls

Okay, I found one source that states "Elizabeth’s parents told her to 'leave and get home,; and Elizabeth subsequently vanished. Cole County Sheriff Greg White confirmed to Fox News that there was 'no contact” from Elizabeth after that interaction.'" While they quote and link to Fox News, I could not find the quotation "leave and get home" --- here's the secondary source
http://www.[link removed]/44217/missing-9-year-old-elizabeth-olten-found-dead/

Here is a contradiction to the statement the "family spokesperson" made about Elizabeth being a "girly girl" http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/oct/24/body-of-st-martins-girl-recovered-from-woods/

Here is a story that hints at why there might be a discrepancy in the timeline
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091024/ap_on_re_us/us_missouri_girl_dead

Police initially had said Elizabeth was last seen walking home from a neighbor's house on Wednesday night. White said that timeline was developed through interviews.

But on Saturday, White declined to say whether police believed Elizabeth had started walking home when she encountered the suspect. He said many details could not be released to avoid risking the prosecution's case and because the suspect is a juvenile.

Aunt says Elizabeth left friend's house at 6:15 http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-elizabeth-olten-missing-girl-thurs-102309,0,77198.story (also includes reader comments to Elizabeth's aunt )


This sources states that "Elizabeth Olten told parents on a cell phone she was walking home from neighbors Wednesday late afternoon."
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/k.../1569657/KCUR.News/Hunt.Ends.Child.Found.Dead

Interesting statement from the Sheriff about rumors in this case, and rumors about when rumors started to happen after the Sheriff turned away searchers http://www.fultonsun.com/articles/2009/10/23/news/125news02.txt

This is all I have so far

 

[CementPond]

After reading over the info again in the last link above that Prof provided, I have to wonder why they were so sure that they didn't need an Amber Alert? Why were they so sure there was no "foul play" involved?

I mean, we have a 9 year old missing who didn't have a history of running away (that we know of). So, wouldn't you automatically assume "foul play" whenever a child of that age goes missing? A child just doesn't vanish for no reason. It's almost like the authorities had info ahead of time about her being gone. They also said they had no evidence an abduction occurred. But, when a child goes missing, shouldn't that be one of the first thing you assume?

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. If I had it my way I'd send out those alerts right away AND assume the worst! You have to nowadays. In this day and age I don't think we should take missing children lightly. Who cares if the alert costs a city extra money, man power, etc. As long as a missing child is found safe, isn't it worth it? JMO

 

[Flashforward]

Let's try something a bit different. If you are a local and you have heard a rumor you think is worth repeating then you can post it on Websleuths as long as it is clearly marked rumor and as long as it doesn't violate TOS. --- From Tricia

I am a local... here is the RUMOR I have heard at least 10 times-- Not only were there 2 graves but also that there were graves with animals that had been killed. I have not heard if they were in the same location but I have heard this repeatedly. Now isn't it said that children that kill/torture animals are more likely to take a human life.

 

[Jodibug]

Was it actually raining at the time that the girls were outdoors playing? Even if it's just muddy, the woods don't seem like a great place to be playing. Why play outdoors at all?

No. The Wed evening that Elizabeth dissappeared (10/21) we had very nice weather. Warm and clear.

It had rained earlier in the week, and it poured all day long Thurs 10/22 while we were searching.... but when Elizabeth went missing it was very nice outside.

 

[iamhere]

Timeline

I have posted this before, and I think I read somewhere that it is not considered a rumor because first or seconhand information is not rumor. This is information coming secondhand from the mouth of the grandma. Now, the grandma could have been lieing, but this information has made some sense, so I believe it.

The 6 yr. old and AB were playing in the woods. AB brought her sister up to the point that the house could be seen. The sister walked the rest of the way up herself, while AB went back. The grandparents didn't know they were down in the woods because the 6 year old is not allowed in the woods. The 6 year old arrived back at the house sometime around 6:15 (the last time EO was seen).

Speculation- now, Tricia has verified ILC as a good source. This could match ILC's claim that the grandparents didn't know EO was there. The three girls could have been playing in the woods without anyone knowing. I am not sure how it all fits together, but the timeline above came from a reliable source and makes sense with other things I have heard.

 

[Capri]

The KCUR news report, is inaccurate, they refer to the "boy" who was arrested and the "boy" who led them into the woods....so take anything in that report with more than a grain of salt.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/k.../1569657/KCUR.News/Hunt.Ends.Child.Found.Dead

 

[iamhere]

Let's try something a bit different. If you are a local and you have heard a rumor you think is worth repeating then you can post it on Websleuths as long as it is clearly marked rumor and as long as it doesn't violate TOS. --- From Tricia

I am a local... here is the RUMOR I have heard at least 10 times-- Not only were there 2 graves but also that there were graves with animals that had been killed. I have not heard if they were in the same location but I have heard this repeatedly. Now isn't it said that children that kill/torture animals are more likely to take a human life.

I have not heard this rumor. Could it be possible that the animal graves were pets that died from other causes? When one of our pets die we bury it in a grave.

 

[Flashforward]

Also is there a way to post pictures here? I would love to show you all a layout of the land. EO's house is pretty much right off an exit ramp of a semi busy highway... there is a good amount of woods behind the house but the woods directly behind EO's house can be seen from the exit ramp and possibly the highway. And I wouldn't say you could go very far back in the woods behind EO's house b/c there is a farmhouse there (might be abandoned though, not sure) The distance between EO's house and AB's house isn't really all that far, if I was guessing I would say 1-2 football fields apart. From what I have seen on our local news station that the place where they found EO was somewhere inbetween EO's house and AB's house but a little closer to the EO side.